Needed - a method for logging on to my parent's computer

[mset]

Hi guys

I need to know if there's a (reasonable plug and play) way for me to gain remote access to my Dad's computer. Dad and Mom often run into little snags and they are always phoning me for help. If I could log into their machine I could just do a show and tell as opposed to trying to figure out what they are looking at over the phone.

Is Telnet a way to do this? Is there an easier way? I should say that I am not a networking guy at all. My computer knowledge is ok - I just built my first computer from scratch with a lot of help from you guys.

My sister is going to their home for the holidays so she could do whatever work is necessary on that end, on my instructions.

Thanks for any comments.

PS - All I need is a nudge in the right direction - I am willing to do my own research and figure out the details.

Nik

 

[boomerang]

Check this out.

Remote assistance is what you want. If there are routers involved (either, or both ends) it's a little more involved. This site covers it all really well I think.

 

[JackMDS]

There are two methods.

1. Windows native Remoter Desktop.

As describe in the link given by boomerang.

2. Remoter Control Program.

My experience shows that in cases of help given to End-users that are not computer savvy Remote Control Program works better.

Using Remote control program involves installation of simple free program that can be downloaded, installed, and easily configured by aiding the supported user one time through the Tel.

In both cases, the system to be supported needs to be prepared to be connected to through the Internet.

This page describes a very good free remote control program.

http://www.ezlan.net/vnc.html

This page describes option to prepare the Internet connection.

http://www.ezlan.net/myip.html

No matter what you choose, it would a good idea to Install/Use the method of your

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
There are two methods.

This page describes a very good free remote control program.

http://www.ezlan.net/vnc.html

Hi guys, and thanks very much for the responses - they're just what I needed. I also found this program

www.logmein.com

now... this program is probably a little more invasive than the VNC program mentioned here. Looks like a 'retail' thing for people like me as opposed to something you guys would ever use....

I installed the Log Me In s/w on my machine so what I am going to do is go to an internet cafe this afternoon and see if I can gain remote access to my own rig. If it works, fine. If not, I will try the methods mentioned here, starting with the VNC method, I guess.

I do run through a router and I have no experience manipulating the ports, but this will be a good exercise for me if I end up trying the VNC method. I also run behind a firewall and it was a little unexpected to read that to use VNC, I have to disable the firewall on both machines; I have a newbie's fear of running a DSL-connected computer without a firewall. As I said I have a router but my parents do not - their firewall is their only protection.

EDIT: Jack, thanks for those links. I am going to review them and understand everything there, because regardless of this exercise, I need to understand how my computer uses IP addresses, both internal and external.

 

[tyanni]

Where does it say to disable the firewall on both machines?? You need just need to open the ports necessary to connect, which are clearly outlined by jack at his page. No need to disable the firewall.

 

[mset]

Thank You.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: mset

Originally posted by: JackMDS
There are two methods.

This page describes a very good free remote control program.

http://www.ezlan.net/vnc.html

Hi guys, and thanks very much for the responses - they're just what I needed. I also found this program

www.logmein.com

now... this program is probably a little more invasive than the VNC program mentioned here. Looks like a 'retail' thing for people like me as opposed to something you guys would ever use....

I installed the Log Me In s/w on my machine so what I am going to do is go to an internet cafe this afternoon and see if I can gain remote access to my own rig. If it works, fine. If not, I will try the methods mentioned here, starting with the VNC method, I guess.

I do run through a router and I have no experience manipulating the ports, but this will be a good exercise for me if I end up trying the VNC method. I also run behind a firewall and it was a little unexpected to read that to use VNC, I have to disable the firewall on both machines; I have a newbie's fear of running a DSL-connected computer without a firewall. As I said I have a router but my parents do not - their firewall is their only protection.

EDIT: Jack, thanks for those links. I am going to review them and understand everything there, because regardless of this exercise, I need to understand how my computer uses IP addresses, both internal and external.

I would REALLY recommend XP's built in remote assistance it is extremely easy to use, requires no set up and they can see what you are doing. Plus it is faster than the vnc's in my experience (with the possible exception of UltraVnc) The default port is 3389, so just show them how to open that on their router when needed (I wouldn't leave it open and exposed to the Internet) I use SSH tunneling to secure RDP for all of my clients (I do consulting and RDP makes infinitely more sense than driving around town all day) that encrypts the traffic and does not expose the service to the Internet. It may be a little more than you are looking for however as it requires an SSH daemon running on the client network.

 

[mset]

Hi Daishan

Ok - I went to an internet cafe and tested the Log Me In system. It worked, although the image it gave was a sort of virtual image of my desktop and the movements were a bit jerky, kind of like a computer with not enough RAM or something (I assume this is the speed issue you were mentioning). But it did work. I also realized that this Log Me In thing is a form of VNC. However -

You have anticipated my next question. I was wondering if someone sitting in front of my computer would have seen what I was doing while I controlled it remotely. This is crucial for me as I want to be able to drag and drop things on my parent's computer and have them see it.

So I am assuming, based on your post, that the someone sitting in front of the 'controlled' computer would not be able to see my mouse movements and other actions as I manipulated their computer remotely, if I am using a VCN - type setup.

As far as this is concerned -

"I use SSH tunneling to secure RDP for all of my clients (I do consulting and RDP makes infinitely more sense than driving around town all day) that encrypts the traffic and does not expose the service to the Internet. It may be a little more than you are looking for however as it requires an SSH daemon running on the client network."

Daishan, I have to be honest with you, I understand the essence of this, of course, but the details are above my head.

So the port opening thing is all I really have to worry about if I try to use Remote Assistance. They do not use a router, but I assume that I will have to allow communications through that port on the firewall, as was pointed out to me above.

Thanks for your comments and any further comments are welcome.

 

[JackMDS]

Remote desktop is an excellent tool when professionals set it up and use it for their purpose not so much caring about the End-User.

However, the issue is not what is best, and what is great, but what fits best to a given specific situation.

IT pro has a tendency to believe in the trickle down process. I.e. what is good for them is good for End-Users as well.

Trickle down does not always work well (if it works at all).

In a situation like the one described by Mset UltraVNC is better.

The slight slowness helps the people that are supported to see on their computer what is going on, and learn from the support person.

When you terminate VNC, it is out of the system, and does not leave services and other risks running behind.

It is very easy to secure UltraVNC with a free simple 128bits encryption ad-on.

All done and said if you have two computers you should try both methods and see which one works better for you.

 

[nweaver]

I would go the VNC route. Yes, it does allow the local person full access to see/touch what you are doing.

Remote assistance is the same (I think, i've only ever used it once while XP was in beta iirc)

Remote Desktop is out, as it locks the local console.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
Remote desktop is an excellent tool when professionals set it up and use it for their purpose not so much caring about the End-User.

However, the issue is not what is best, and what is great, but what fits best to a given specific situation.

IT pro has a tendency to believe in the trickle down process. I.e. what is good for them is good for End-Users as well.

Trickle down does not always work well (if it works at all).

In a situation like the one described by Mset UltraVNC is better.

The slight slowness helps the people that are supported to see on their computer what is going on, and learn from the support person.

When you terminate VNC, it is out of the system, and does not leave services and other risks running behind.

It is very easy to secure UltraVNC with a free simple 128bits encryption ad-on.

All done and said if you have two computers you should try both methods and see which one works better for you.

As usual very good post. mset, may I recommend looking into UltraVNC SingleClick? basically it is a push connection initiated by your parents to your PC. Once the session is closed it is no longer available to connect to (no active listener) UltraVNC standard *I think* by default installs the listener as a service, which you probably don't want. Also with single click you do not have to change ANY firewall settings on their end, you just have to run the listener on your PC and open the port on your firewall. I use this occasionally when assisting clients that don't have a support plan and need remote assistance.

Edit: Also in the interest of information: RA is slightly different than RD. The client must issue a time limited invitation to connect, once the time limit has expired the session must be re-created in order to be used. Additionally RA does allow you to interact with the client, they see the mouse move and you can chat with them through an integrated windows messenger box. One of my clients purchased a rather expensive inventory mangement system (something like $100k) and the person responsible for installing it (remotely from the vendor) wanted to use something similar to gotomypc. Not having much experience with the software myself, I was concerned about the security implications of installing untested software onto the network and giving Domain level administrator rights as well as full administrator rights on a production MSSQL environment to a complete stranger, I convinced them to use RA as it is built into any XP client, and I can babysit them when they need to remote in to make sure they don't hose anything. Generally speaking, remote connections based on the RDP are faster because the daemon does not have to send a picture of the screen across the link, instead it describes to the controlling computer the window which is redrawn on their pc, VNC as I understand it, continuously polls the screen (think a series of pictures) and sends each one to the controlling computer, which takes more bandwidth. However, as JackMDS pointed out, VNC may still be the best option for your particular situation, especially if you familiarize yourself with singleclick. In my experience it's usually best to remove as much control over the configuration process from the end user as possible.

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

As usual very good post. mset, may I recommend looking into UltraVNC SingleClick? basically it is a push connection initiated by your parents to your PC. Once the session is closed it is no longer available to connect to (no active listener) UltraVNC standard *I think* by default installs the listener as a service, which you probably don't want. Also with single click you do not have to change ANY firewall settings on their end, you just have to run the listener on your PC and open the port on your firewall. I use this occasionally when assisting clients that don't have a support plan and need remote assistance.

Hi Daishan, nweaver and Jack

Daishan, thanks, I will check out UltraVNC However, I just wanted to mention this... when I went to the internet cafe and tried to log into my computer (having installed Log Me In on my computer) I saw the following: on the bottom of the screen, just to the left od the system tray, in the blue bar where I usually see the different windows I have open, I saw a window named 'VNC xxxxx'. I can't recall what the xxxx was. However, this made me think that Log Me In is itself a version of VNC. I know that VNC is available in many different versions.

So... someone else has told me that using Log Me In, I can set it up so that my parents can see my mouse movements. I am therefore going to go ahead and get my sister to install Log Me In on their machine, and then I am going to remotely access their machine from here in Toronto. This I know I can do. If I cannot configure it so that they can see my mouse movements, I will then go to SingleClick and try that. This should work, and maybe I will avoid using RA altogether.

Thanks very much for the comments so far. I will post here in the next day or two with the results. Any further comments about the 'VNC' text that appeared when I ran Log Me In are appreciated.

 

[JackMDS]

Every one has his own needs, we can only provide information.

UltraVNC provides for free what Logmein provide in the Pro version that is Not free.

You can try both and use what you like best.

 

[BZeto]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Remote Desktop is out, as it locks the local console.

What do you mean by this?
It locks the computer being remote controlled? I could have swore I've used RDC and I could control both workstations just fine.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: BZeto

Originally posted by: nweaver

Remote Desktop is out, as it locks the local console.

What do you mean by this?
It locks the computer being remote controlled? I could have swore I've used RDC and I could control both workstations just fine.

When you log in via RDP it logs off the current user and all that appears on the monitor is the log in box which tells the user the console is locked and only the user logged in or an administrator can unlock it. RA is similar to the linux application "screen" in that you can both be in the session at the same time and see what is going on (albeit through the GUI in RA as opposed to the cli only in screen)

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
Every one has his own needs, we can only provide information.

UltraVNC provides for free what Logmein provide in the Pro version that is Not free.

You can try both and use what you like best.

Hi Jack

I see! I wasn't aware of this. So file sharing etc., does not 'expire' as it does with Log Me In.

Okay, I will take that under advisement. Maybe what I will do is set up Log Me In so that I have basic functionality and then try UltraVNC and see if I can get the port configurations done on that. I know this must seem trivially easy for you but sometimes these things are a bit daunting for a total newb. Actually, you seem to be sensitive to this given your earlier post about sophisticated vs. non-Pro users.

Thanks again for taking the time to provide all this information.

Nik

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: mset

Originally posted by: JackMDS I know this must seem trivially easy for you but sometimes these things are a bit daunting for a total newb.

LOL. At least computer software does not Bite. (I have a fight with a Raccoon that is insisting to live under my house).

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
LOL. At least computer software does not Bite. (I have a fight with a Raccoon that is insisting to live under my house).

LOL... I'd rather fight with a piece of s/w than a Raccoon! We have a ton of them in this neighbourhood and they are completely fearless - they don't even blink if you surprise them, they just wander away.

My sister installed Log Me In on my parents machine and I was able to log onto it and control it. They can see my mouse movements. Now all that remains to be seen is whether I lose the ability to let them see my mouse movements when the Log Me In functionality reverts from the Pro version to the Free version in 30 days. I understand that I will not be able to share files and do other things.

It's quite possible that I will start to realize that I need the full functionality of UltraVNC. I checked out the UltraVNC page and so maybe what I will do is try to install that the next time I am at my parent's home.

Thanks very much to all the contributors here for taking the time to compose such detailed responses.

Nik