Need to understand how airflow works.

[kyrax12]

Ok So I am planning to put the silverstone FHP141 fan onto my Hyperevo 212.

http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Te...erstone+fhp141

Even thought the Hyperevo 212 only support 120mm fan. The Silverstone FHP141 fan features 120mm mounting slot. Which I can then mount the brackets onto the 120mm mounting slot and put it on like a 120mm fan. Correct?

Does my rear exhaust fan have to match the speed of the Silverstone FHP141. (171 CFM).

Since I am aiming the hyperevo 212 towards the rear exhaust.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Ok So I am planning to put the silverstone FHP141 fan onto my Hyperevo 212.

http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Te...erstone+fhp141

Even thought the Hyperevo 212 only support 120mm fan. The Silverstone FHP141 fan features 120mm mounting slot. Which I can then mount the brackets onto the 120mm mounting slot and put it on like a 120mm fan. Correct?

Does my rear exhaust fan have to match the speed of the Silverstone FHP141. (171 CFM).

Since I am aiming the hyperevo 212 towards the rear exhaust.

And . . . it would probably fit a 120mm case exhaust port.

I have "opinions" about cooling strategies, and am first to realize them as such.

This Silverstone fan comes with some two-speed feature. As much as I like the design of the Silverstone, I'd want to set it to its top-end potential and control it thermally from a PWM signal. Depending on the case-- which I would pressurize -- I'd want the cooler "pusher" fan to lag just behind the exhaust fan -- not in RPMs but in "likely" CFMs.

And I would most likely build a duct to fit between rear of the cooler and the exhaust fan. Frankly, with that much CFM potential on the Silverstone, I could see just using it as case exhaust with no pusher fan on the cooler, but the ducting would be imperative under that scenario. Fewer fans, less power draw -- equal or better CPU cooling. Yup. That's what I think.

Also, the link isn't clear as to whether this fan is actually a PWM fan. If it is, forget the gimmick of the two speed settings and control it thermally. If not -- make do with whatever floats your boat.

 

[kyrax12]

And . . . it would probably fit a 120mm case exhaust port.

I have "opinions" about cooling strategies, and am first to realize them as such.

This Silverstone fan comes with some two-speed feature. As much as I like the design of the Silverstone, I'd want to set it to its top-end potential and control it thermally from a PWM signal. Depending on the case-- which I would pressurize -- I'd want the cooler "pusher" fan to lag just behind the exhaust fan -- not in RPMs but in "likely" CFMs.

And I would most likely build a duct to fit between rear of the cooler and the exhaust fan. Frankly, with that much CFM potential on the Silverstone, I could see just using it as case exhaust with no pusher fan on the cooler, but the ducting would be imperative under that scenario. Fewer fans, less power draw -- equal or better CPU cooling. Yup. That's what I think.

Also, the link isn't clear as to whether this fan is actually a PWM fan. If it is, forget the gimmick of the two speed settings and control it thermally. If not -- make do with whatever floats your boat.

Would you recommending using the silverstone fan on my hyperevo 212 or putting it on a 120mm exhaust port?

 

[Freddy1765]

I'd use whichever fan has the highest cfm on the CPU cooler and stick the remaining fan on as an exhaust.
Why would you want to mount a 140mm fan on a 120mm cooler though? If it were me, I'd prefer a good 120mm fan instead, something like a Noctua NF-F12 PWM (which I'm using on my own 212 Evo).

 

[kyrax12]

I'd use whichever fan has the highest cfm on the CPU cooler and stick the remaining fan on as an exhaust.
Why would you want to mount a 140mm fan on a 120mm cooler though? If it were me, I'd prefer a good 120mm fan instead, something like a Noctua NF-F12 PWM (which I'm using on my own 212 Evo).

Well the 140mm Silverstone fan has 171 CFM.

 

[Freddy1765]

Well, sure. But that won't benefit you when the area that needs to be cooled is smaller than the area of the fan. Some of the air it pushes will "miss the target".
I'm by no means an expert on anything related to airflow, but it seems logical to me that a fan that is larger than the heatsink to which it is attached will just disperse the air around that heatsink rather than push air through it.

 

[kyrax12]

Well, sure. But that won't benefit you when the area that needs to be cooled is smaller than the area of the fan. Some of the air it pushes will "miss the target".
I'm by no means an expert on anything related to airflow, but it seems logical to me that a fan that is larger than the heatsink to which it is attached will just disperse the air around that heatsink rather than push air through it.

That is interesting. I am wondering if some other people can confirm this.

I was hoping to use the Silvers tone 140mm fan as a rear exhaust (if it can fit) and then a 110 CFM silverstone 120mm fan to cool the heatsink.

 

[dma0991]

That is interesting. I am wondering if some other people can confirm this.

Using a 140mm fan will still push air through the center of the fins and the sides of the fins. It is still better to have two 120mm fans in push pull, and seal the open sides of the CM Hyper212 Evo fins to allow more air to move in a straight line (like a duct) rather than disperse sideways.

 

[Charlie98]

That is interesting. I am wondering if some other people can confirm this.

I was hoping to use the Silvers tone 140mm fan as a rear exhaust (if it can fit) and then a 110 CFM silverstone 120mm fan to cool the heatsink.

The greatest benefit for a bigger fan is the tip speed... the farthest point from the hub or pivot. There is very little airflow at the center of a fan because of the relatively slower blade speed compared to the tip (not RPM, but actual speed of the blade swinging through the air.) Putting a 140mm fan on a 120mm heat exchanger will not be as efficient as a 120/120mm setup unless you have some sort of duct funneling all that air into the exchanger fins and not out the side (one of the problems with the 212 cooler.)

Using a 140mm fan will still push air through the center of the fins and the sides of the fins. It is still better to have two 120mm fans in push pull, and seal the open sides of the CM Hyper212 Evo fins to allow more air to move in a straight line (like a duct) rather than disperse sideways.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Even thought the Hyperevo 212 only support 120mm fan. The Silverstone FHP141 fan features 120mm mounting slot. Which I can then mount the brackets onto the 120mm mounting slot and put it on like a 120mm fan. Correct?

Yes, that should be fine.

Does my rear exhaust fan have to match the speed of the Silverstone FHP141. (171 CFM).

Since I am aiming the hyperevo 212 towards the rear exhaust.

Nope.

Also, the link isn't clear as to whether this fan is actually a PWM fan. If it is, forget the gimmick of the two speed settings and control it thermally. If not -- make do with whatever floats your boat.

Duck, link says:

The FHP141 is an exceptionally high performing 140mm fan designed for cooling CPU heatsinks. It has steeply raked fan blades thanks to its thick, 38mm profile, which enables the FHP141 to achieve not only high airflow but very high air pressure for its size. An integrated switch provides users with the option of running the fan in either power mode (500 ~ 2000rpm) or quiet mode (500 ~ 1200rpm) via PWM fan headers.

So it looks like PWM, and that the switch just sets the upper limit on RPM.

 

[kyrax12]

Does it matter whether the Hyperevo 212 is positioned as long as it is facing towards an exhaust?

I was wanting to switch it to position it horizontally towards the top exhaust.

Any cooling differences? I want to fit the silverstone FHP-141 as a top exhaust, and therefore I need room.

 

[dma0991]

Does it matter whether the Hyperevo 212 is positioned as long as it is facing towards an exhaust?

I was wanting to switch it to position it horizontally towards the top exhaust.

Any cooling differences? I want to fit the silverstone FHP-141 as a top exhaust, and therefore I need room.

If you have GPUs at the bottom and they are the type that exhausts hot air into the case, its better not to put it bottom to top. Regardless of how you orient your CM Hyper212 Evo, having a GPU at the bottom will always pose a problem but it should be ever so slightly better with it facing front to back.

 

[kyrax12]

If you have GPUs at the bottom and they are the type that exhausts hot air into the case, its better not to put it bottom to top. Regardless of how you orient your CM Hyper212 Evo, having a GPU at the bottom will always pose a problem but it should be ever so slightly better with it facing front to back.

Not too sure on what you are saying but I have a GTX 760 with acx cooling.

 

[dma0991]

Not too sure on what you are saying but I have a GTX 760 with acx cooling.

What I meant was that you could orient CM Hyper212 in two different ways (upward, sideways). Your GPU exhausts hot air within the case rather than directing it towards the rear vents. Placing the CM Hyper212 Evo in an upward position makes it more prone to intake hot air coming from the GPU, thus placing it sideways is a better choice in this situation.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Would you recommending using the silverstone fan on my hyperevo 212 or putting it on a 120mm exhaust port?

I've tried variations on getting good air-cooling. The tendency for enthusiasts early in their computer-building experience is to use too many fans. A good strategy I follow is to match input CFM (total-rated) to output CFM so that input is slightly to overwhelmingly greater -- a pressurized case. This works well when the path of case exhaust is focused first on warm components and heat transfer: in the simplest case, force as much of the exhaust air as possible through the CPU cooler before it is exhausted. Do not allow air to escape the case unless it goes through some part of the heatpipe coolers fins.

In such a configuration, you might have a higher-output exhaust fan which gets special attention with acoustic dampening strategies. These would include the overall thermal control of fans (preferably by PWM signal), so that airflow (and exhaust) increases with load temperatures. Thus, the noise would be reduced just because the CPU may never get hot enough to run the fans full blast, and when it does -- the airflow reaches a point where increasing it doesn't offer further cooling improvements.

So I was very interested in this Silverstone 140 x 38mm fan. If it really serves up a maximum CFM above 150, the RPMs are in the low 2,000 range, it's likely the noise will only be "air turbulence" -- if that.

To address your question: If you can suck all the air in the case through the cooler fins and exhaust it immediately, you don't need to have a fan on the cooler. You only need a simple duct between the cooler and an exhaust fan (like the Silverstone), and you could run that exhaust fan off the CPU_FAN plug. With a device like the Swiftech 8W-PWM-SPL-ST, you can control up to 8 PWM devices from the CPU_FAN PWM signal wire, and power the devices directly from the PSU.

And I guess to press the point home after all this blather -- you might come away with half as many fans, just as much airflow, fewer challenges for thermal control from motherboard PWM headers, maybe less noise.

 

[kyrax12]

Alright thanks for the help.

1. For the COolermaster hyperevo 212. I am planning to use a sickeflow fan as an exhaust fan. I think the stock fan's max speed is 80 CFM and the sickeflow fans are about 69 CFM at max speed. Is the exhaust fan's slower CFM going to impact the push/pull configuration much.

2. How much do cable management impact the airflow/cooling of the case?

 

[Charlie98]

Alright thanks for the help.

1. For the COolermaster hyperevo 212. I am planning to use a sickeflow fan as an exhaust fan. I think the stock fan's max speed is 80 CFM and the sickeflow fans are about 69 CFM at max speed. Is the exhaust fan's slower CFM going to impact the push/pull configuration much.

2. How much do cable management impact the airflow/cooling of the case?

1) Probably not. You are going to lose a fair amount of the intake 'push' fan's air due to the inefficiency of the 212 design.

2) Depends on how much wiring we are talking here. Couple of SATA cables, couple of power cables out in the open... very little.

As far as cooler orientation...

If you have GPUs at the bottom and they are the type that exhausts hot air into the case, its better not to put it bottom to top. Regardless of how you orient your CM Hyper212 Evo, having a GPU at the bottom will always pose a problem but it should be ever so slightly better with it facing front to back.

...I have a EVGA 760 ACX, too, and even prior to that a 560ti. I would not orient it bottom to top. The clearances between the fan and the GPU card are not great, and I believe it would hinder efficient airflow. The majority of the GPU exhaust is supposed to be out the back of the case, but the more open design of the ACX cooler doesn't seem to lend itself to that very well. My 560ti was like a jet exhaust out the back, the 760 not so much... so that hot air is, indeed, going back into the case.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

1) Probably not. You are going to lose a fair amount of the intake 'push' fan's air due to the inefficiency of the 212 design.

Actually, that's a good reason to stagger fans by rated CFM between the cooler-pusher and exhaust fans. That is, if you had two identical fans and you could thermally control them "differently" so that the exhaust fan spins faster, you might have more efficient air-movement through the cooler fins. But the caveat here: it would only matter if there's a duct between the cooler and exhaust. Otherwise, the exhaust fan would be pulling case air that didn't pass through the cooler fins first.

Again, these are my own opinions based on my own experience. I can only say that the strategies work pretty well for me.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Actually, that's a good reason to stagger fans by rated CFM between the cooler-pusher and exhaust fans.

But unless you've tested the fans CFM in restricted conditions (pulling/pushing through a heatsink/rad) you're comparing open-flow apples to restricted flow oranges. Unless you're using the fan w/o restrictions, the rated CFMs are not likely to be meaningful. Yeah, you can say rating-A is bigger/smaller/whatever than rating-B, but you don't know how either CFM rating maps to CFM in your set-up without additional tests.

1. For the COolermaster hyperevo 212. I am planning to use a sickeflow fan as an exhaust fan. I think the stock fan's max speed is 80 CFM and the sickeflow fans are about 69 CFM at max speed. Is the exhaust fan's slower CFM going to impact the push/pull configuration much.

2. How much do cable management impact the airflow/cooling of the case?

1) I wouldn't worry about it.
2) What case are you building in? If you have space behind the MoBo tray, a few simple cable routes can make a world of difference. If you don't have space, you actually have to be even more careful to try to build in open airflow paths.

 

[MongGrel]

And you can barely hear it running.

There is a 200 above the CPU Cooler.

The drive bays all have the stock ones ripped out long ago and Arctic Cool PCM 120's in em.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

And you can barely hear it running.

There is a 200 above the CPU Cooler.

If that works for you, I won't pontificate about how you could get more for less. If I did so pontificate, however, the 200 would fit into the remaining mix!!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

But unless you've tested the fans CFM in restricted conditions (pulling/pushing through a heatsink/rad) you're comparing open-flow apples to restricted flow oranges. Unless you're using the fan w/o restrictions, the rated CFMs are not likely to be meaningful. Yeah, you can say rating-A is bigger/smaller/whatever than rating-B, but you don't know how either CFM rating maps to CFM in your set-up without additional tests.



1) I wouldn't worry about it.
2) What case are you building in? If you have space behind the MoBo tray, a few simple cable routes can make a world of difference. If you don't have space, you actually have to be even more careful to try to build in open airflow paths.

Even for "custom building," I'd like to see how many people have time to set up some . . . rigorous . . . fan-testing apparatus. You could only use the rated CFMs for some ballpark guess of relative comparison.

Take for instance my D14 heatsink fitted with a "mid-tower" Akasa "round 140R. By "rating," it's supposed to push something between 103 and 110 CFM. The exhaust fan is a Gentle Typhoon AP-30 -- I forgot the "rated" throughput but it's likely exceeding 145CFM. There are also "test reviews" offered on various models, which can be compared to mfgr "rating."

OBVIOUSLY, at its top-end, the AP-30 will pull more air than the Akasa pushes. Obviiously, I'm not going to run the AP-30 at most CPU temperatures at its top-end of 4,250 RPM. If both fans run off the same PWM signal, one could expect that the relative balance or imbalance between them is likely consistent.

If someone wants to blindly select fans without regard to rated throughput, they can do that . . . . too . . .