Need to find the one ring

[VulgarDisplay]

One did not simply walk into Jared?

 

[Saint Nick]

Lol @ buying diamonds.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Maybe $300 tops.

This is how much you make in two months?

Listen, I don't into that garbage, and you certainly don't seem like you do, but that begs the question, why buy into any of it?

 

[BurnItDwn]

If you want brick and mortar, Rogers and Hollands seems to price things with lower than the typical 350% jeweler markup.

http://www.rogersandhollands.com/

I spent an order of magnitude more than your budget, however, there are options in your budget range if you want to go to a B&M and see them in person before you pick.

 

[RearAdmiral]

There are two kinds of halos:

1. Cheap Halos. These are easily identifiable when the low-quality primary diamond is hardly discernible from the halo diamonds. Often looks passable from a distance, until you realize that the primary diamond is in fact a third of its apparent size.
2. Gaudy Halos. These are purchased by people that don't realize the purpose of the halo in the first place (see 1, above). These combine relatively large diamonds (~1ct+) with even more halo. This results in a halo that is often wider than the chick's finger and a ring that is ten times uglier than it would have been if the primary diamond had not been obscured.

I would imagine there are things in between the two extremes. There are delicate and antique style halos as well whose design isn't meant to make the diamond look larger than it is, only to compliment it. Why would anyone get a 3 stone setting or anything other than a primary diamond?

I get your tastes but there are just too many styles and complimentary settings out there to be so extreme.

 

[rcpratt]

I would imagine there are things in between the two extremes. There are delicate and antique style halos as well whose design isn't meant to make the diamond look larger than it is, only to compliment it. Why would anyone get a 3 stone setting or anything other than a primary diamond?

I get your tastes but there are just too many styles and complimentary settings out there to be so extreme.

Certainly a little hyperbole, but I've seen so many crappy halos on facebook lately that it makes me want to throw up.

 

[RearAdmiral]

Certainly a little hyperbole, but I've seen so many crappy halos on facebook lately that it makes me want to throw up.

I absolutely agree which is why I think a well done halo is exceptional, since there are so few. Some girl the other day showed me an awful one on her finger and it saddened me. They look so bad when they are bad.

I can admit that probably some 95%+ of halos are bad, cheap or gaudy, but that's just why I like the nice ones.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I absolutely agree which is why I think a well done halo is exceptional, since there are so few. Some girl the other day showed me an awful one on her finger and it saddened me. They look so bad when they are bad.

I can admit that probably some 95%+ of halos are bad, cheap or gaudy, but that's just why I like the nice ones.

Anything that comes from Italy is fucking junk. Everything that comes from retail jewelers is from Italy. Custom art jewelry or you are arguing about lipstick on a pig. Common is gross.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

If you want brick and mortar, Rogers and Hollands seems to price things with lower than the typical 350% jeweler markup.

http://www.rogersandhollands.com/

I spent an order of magnitude more than your budget, however, there are options in your budget range if you want to go to a B&M and see them in person before you pick.

Sorry to say, you were robbed, but at least R&H has a better selection, which is the only distinction among retail jewelers. I have a lifetime 50% discount that I have never used because it's still robbery.

 

[tfinch2]

One did not simply walk into Jared?

One does not simply walk into Jared's before going to Blue Nile.

 

[gorb]

Sorry to say, you were robbed, but at least R&H has a better selection, which is the only distinction among retail jewelers. I have a lifetime 50% discount that I have never used because it's still robbery.

Where do you recommend people shop?

 

[Malak]

I'm going to assume your soon to be fiance knows you aren't rich.

You know her, talk to her friends for confirmation, but for that cost, you are better off getting an interesting ring with her favorite colors or themes. I wouldn't get something diamond-like.

You can get a nice ring with colored CZ stones for that price, but I would get something with semi-precious stones instead. Etsy, amazon, and overstock should be able to provide you with ideas as you hunt down the ring.

Good luck!

That's what I was thinking. Etsy has a good variety, heard overstock was good idea too.

 

[jaedaliu]

Where do you recommend people shop?

This is how much you make in two months?

Listen, I don't into that garbage, and you certainly don't seem like you do, but that begs the question, why buy into any of it?

Sounds like he thinks you shouldn't buy a ring from any jewelry shop as an engagement indicator.

I'm a sucker. My wife told me before I proposed that she didn't need a nice ring, and I spent about a good chunk of money on a classy, custom made halo ring.

 

[AreaCode707]

Protip: Talk to her best friend(s). All women love to talk about wedding stuff, and it's basically guaranteed that one of them will know what kind of ring she wants.

This. Almost all the rest of the advice in this thread is useless because you don't appear to know your fiancee's tastes in jewelry.

Yes you can go wrong with a solitaire, yes some women like halo rings, yes some women hate diamonds, yes some women absolutely expect diamonds, yes some women want a traditional cut, yes some women would love an unusual cut, yes some women don't want any stone at all...

Buying a non-exchangeable ring without having the slightest idea what she likes is a mistake. Do a little research on your honey's preferences first, and then come back and get advice on where to shop to get something roughly in the ballpark of what she likes.

 

[RearAdmiral]

Anything that comes from Italy is fucking junk. Everything that comes from retail jewelers is from Italy. Custom art jewelry or you are arguing about lipstick on a pig. Common is gross.

??

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Where do you recommend people shop?

I don't. My message is you will overpay by a stupid amount, you will get absolutely ordinary things, and that those things are intrinsically worthless; you have no outlet.

Retail jewelry is all uninspired recycled designs, and spectacularly ugly garbage. Jewelry is ornamentation, and should therefore be pretty. Pretty is made by artists, there are very few artists, and artists take time, making custom "fine" (precious stones and metals) jewelry out of the question for most people.

All jewelry grade gold mountings with very little exception come from Italy. They are sold by catalogs unavailable to the general public. Stuller is probably the main importer/wholesaler of blanks, chains and mounts in the US, but there are several others. The selection between manufacturers is mainly redundant, and chain and rings styles are largely unchanged for decades, then just recycled according to fashion/demand. The gold is all 14k or 18k, which when compared to 22-24k gold, does not even resemble gold. Medium value pieces ($5,000 to $100,000 are assembled here at "wholesalers". This term is equivalent to what we are accustomed to in this country as retailers, as far as the level of markup, and number of middle men. Jewelry is an industry of middle men. Diamonds are mainly cut and polished in Belgium, if they are worth dealing with. Some are cut and polished here, but these are generally of lesser quality, or re-cuts. The diamonds all originate in South Africa, but the diamonds you will see for the next 100 years have all been mined already. They are still digging, but really only for trophies. They are all "blood diamonds", regardless of the source, as anything that support de Beers is supporting outright slavery. There are so many diamonds out of the ground, that their true value is somewhere on the order of glass. Other precious stones actually are rare, but you have never even seen a truly valuable ruby or emerald, and you never will. What you see in stores are man-made or of lesser color, along with some of the other beryls.

As with other things the rarest of the rare end up in supremely expensive pieces with values STARTING over $1,000,000 Keep in mind this is 20 year old information from my brain, but the values trend with almost directly with inflation. This is the beginning of the "collector" level of jewelry.

Finally, what you get and what you are told you are getting are two entirely separate things. gem grading is almost entirely subjective and absolutely unregulated. 10 GIAs will give you 10 varying opinions of the same stone when it comes to color, and clarity of any diamond, and this is magnified greatly in any other kind of stone. Most things are not even GIA certified. Past this, jewelry appraisals are a joke. Jewelers want you to feel like you got a deal so they can keep robbing you. Many even advertise appraisal values of double and triple the sale price because they know every other jeweler out there continues the same level of dishonesty. It is truly a loose conspiracy.

My advice, if you are going to buy, is to buy what you like knowing you can not win. My goal is that you change your mind about the value of this garbage which has been foisted upon you through very clever marketing campaigns which rely on peer pressure.

There are some changes due to the opening of relations with China and especially former Soviet states, mostly in the arena of metals. Combined with current vast knowledge exchange, and decreasing costs of manufacturing equipment, and broader tastes in a shrinking world, some are starting to break into the business of custom jewelry in non and semi-precious materials. Also Indian and Middle-eastern gold jewelry is becoming more accessible. This is true GOLD jewelry, but it is expensive and less durable. If you truly value it though, those problems will take care of themselves. Indian-mined diamonds are and will always be shit. Then again, diamonds are simply boring the way they are generally used. In the past they were mainly accents to far more rare and precious stones.

If you really love someone, knowing how to sexually pleasure them will go a much longer way than any stupid assembly of minerals.

I am very fortunate to have been trained by an insurance company which was willing to send me to GIA, and have me spend whole days in Chicago's Jewelers Row, making friends. One of them, who I would say is a 1 in a million personality in the industry, and who routinely referred to his decades-long business associates as "whores", was kind enough to show me everything he knew about everything jewelry.

In my previously life, everything he told me was tested in my job, and he was never wrong.

Two examples:

1. I had one claim for a diamond ring of blah blah blah characteristics. This was sold to him by his BROTHER the jeweler. The price was "Too good to be true/unattainable by anyone on the outside of the industry". I replaced his ring, because he refused the monetary offer, for 50% of the sale price (he truly did get a 'good deal'). To iron-clad my case, I secretly took it to his brother's shop for the appraisal under the false pretense it was mine, and brother jeweler was even kind enough to overstate the characteristics of the piece, which was the exact same specs listed on the insured's appraisal and GIA cert. The listed appraisal value was 250% of what I paid. I presented it to him in our office and that meeting was contentious, because he really only wanted the money, but the contract language is clear. The reasoning being, you can insure something like that for anything you wish, but if we can buy it cheaper, that's our limit of liability. After all, you could pay $20 for a can of root beer if you want, but why should I pay more than the $.50 everyone else pays? Fairly simple logic. In the end he was forced to admit that the ring was actually better looking than the one he owned, and he took it. I do believe he ended up being quite angry with his brother the jeweler, who ripped him off like any other bum off the street.

2. I handled a claim where a woman lost and later found a diamond pendant her LATE husband bought her. Of course the original coming from a dead person was irreplaceable due to the sentimental value. She too was unhappy with the cash offer and took an actual physical replacement based on her appraisal (the piece was not certified). Policy language states that if a claimed loss item is found the insured has three options (four if being dishonest and never coming forward counts), return the insurance company cost of the item physically replaced, return the replacement item, or return the original item. Despite the original item being "irreplaceable" and "sentimental", she opted to return the one her husband bought her. This is quite funny when someone calls you 3 times a day for a week crying over the ridiculous monetary offer, and "passing things to children" etc. etc. When I went to her house to pick up the piece, I knew what my jeweler friend said was 100% proven. The piece she handed almost in no way resembled what I handed her some months previous, and which she was wearing at the door. The appraisal given to her husband when he bought it was almost a complete fabrication in the Cs department. All such appraisals, even independently payed for from other jewelers with no interest in a sale, are utterly lies. Certifications will get you pretty close to the Cs, and exact on the Ms, but they do not place a dollar value at the bottom; that is up to the crooks in our society we call retail jewelers.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

??

Did I stutter?

 

[tfinch2]

I don't. My message is you will overpay by a stupid amount, you will get absolutely ordinary things, and that those things are intrinsically worthless; you have no outlet.

Retail jewelry is all uninspired recycled designs, and spectacularly ugly garbage. Jewelry is ornamentation, and should therefore be pretty. Pretty is made by artists, there are very few artists, and artists take time, making custom "fine" (precious stones and metals) jewelry out of the question for most people.

All jewelry grade gold mountings with very little exception come from Italy. They are sold by catalogs unavailable to the general public. Stuller is probably the main importer/wholesaler of blanks, chains and mounts in the US, but there are several others. The selection between manufacturers is mainly redundant, and chain and rings styles are largely unchanged for decades, then just recycled according to fashion/demand. The gold is all 14k or 18k, which when compared to 22-24k gold, does not even resemble gold. Medium value pieces ($5,000 to $100,000 are assembled here at "wholesalers". This term is equivalent to what we are accustomed to in this country as retailers, as far as the level of markup, and number of middle men. Jewelry is an industry of middle men. Diamonds are mainly cut and polished in Belgium, if they are worth dealing with. Some are cut and polished here, but these are generally of lesser quality, or re-cuts. The diamonds all originate in South Africa, but the diamonds you will see for the next 100 years have all been mined already. They are still digging, but really only for trophies. They are all "blood diamonds", regardless of the source, as anything that support de Beers is supporting outright slavery. There are so many diamonds out of the ground, that their true value is somewhere on the order of glass. Other precious stones actually are rare, but you have never even seen a truly valuable ruby or emerald, and you never will. What you see in stores are man-made or of lesser color, along with some of the other beryls.

As with other things the rarest of the rare end up in supremely expensive pieces with values STARTING over $1,000,000 Keep in mind this is 20 year old information from my brain, but the values trend with almost directly with inflation. This is the beginning of the "collector" level of jewelry.

Finally, what you get and what you are told you are getting are two entirely separate things. gem grading is almost entirely subjective and absolutely unregulated. 10 GIAs will give you 10 varying opinions of the same stone when it comes to color, and clarity of any diamond, and this is magnified greatly in any other kind of stone. Most things are not even GIA certified. Past this, jewelry appraisals are a joke. Jewelers want you to feel like you got a deal so they can keep robbing you. Many even advertise appraisal values of double and triple the sale price because they know every other jeweler out there continues the same level of dishonesty. It is truly a loose conspiracy.

My advice, if you are going to buy, is to buy what you like knowing you can not win. My goal is that you change your mind about the value of this garbage which has been foisted upon you through very clever marketing campaigns which rely on peer pressure.

There are some changes due to the opening of relations with China and especially former Soviet states, mostly in the arena of metals. Combined with current vast knowledge exchange, and decreasing costs of manufacturing equipment, and broader tastes in a shrinking world, some are starting to break into the business of custom jewelry in non and semi-precious materials. Also Indian and Middle-eastern gold jewelry is becoming more accessible. This is true GOLD jewelry, but it is expensive and less durable. If you truly value it though, those problems will take care of themselves. Indian-mined diamonds are and will always be shit. Then again, diamonds are simply boring the way they are generally used. In the past they were mainly accents to far more rare and precious stones.

If you really love someone, knowing how to sexually pleasure them will go a much longer way than any stupid assembly of minerals.

I am very fortunate to have been trained by an insurance company which was willing to send me to GIA, and have me spend whole days in Chicago's Jewelers Row, making friends. One of them, who I would say is a 1 in a million personality in the industry, and who routinely referred to his decades-long business associates as "whores", was kind enough to show me everything he knew about everything jewelry.

In my previously life, everything he told me was tested in my job, and he was never wrong.

Two examples:

1. I had one claim for a diamond ring of blah blah blah characteristics. This was sold to him by his BROTHER the jeweler. The price was "Too good to be true/unattainable by anyone on the outside of the industry". I replaced his ring, because he refused the monetary offer, for 50% of the sale price (he truly did get a 'good deal'). To iron-clad my case, I secretly took it to his brother's shop for the appraisal under the false pretense it was mine, and brother jeweler was even kind enough to overstate the characteristics of the piece, which was the exact same specs listed on the insured's appraisal and GIA cert. The listed appraisal value was 250% of what I paid. I presented it to him in our office and that meeting was contentious, because he really only wanted the money, but the contract language is clear. The reasoning being, you can insure something like that for anything you wish, but if we can buy it cheaper, that's our limit of liability. After all, you could pay $20 for a can of root beer if you want, but why should I pay more than the $.50 everyone else pays? Fairly simple logic. In the end he was forced to admit that the ring was actually better looking than the one he owned, and he took it. I do believe he ended up being quite angry with his brother the jeweler, who ripped him off like any other bum off the street.

2. I handled a claim where a woman lost and later found a diamond pendant her LATE husband bought her. Of course the original coming from a dead person was irreplaceable due to the sentimental value. She too was unhappy with the cash offer and took an actual physical replacement based on her appraisal (the piece was not certified). Policy language states that if a claimed loss item is found the insured has three options (four if being dishonest and never coming forward counts), return the insurance company cost of the item physically replaced, return the replacement item, or return the original item. Despite the original item being "irreplaceable" and "sentimental", she opted to return the one her husband bought her. This is quite funny when someone calls you 3 times a day for a week crying over the ridiculous monetary offer, and "passing things to children" etc. etc. When I went to her house to pick up the piece, I knew what my jeweler friend said was 100% proven. The piece she handed almost in no way resembled what I handed her some months previous, and which she was wearing at the door. The appraisal given to her husband when he bought it was almost a complete fabrication in the Cs department. All such appraisals, even independently payed for from other jewelers with no interest in a sale, are utterly lies. Certifications will get you pretty close to the Cs, and exact on the Ms, but they do not place a dollar value at the bottom; that is up to the crooks in our society we call retail jewelers.

lulz the dude is looking to buy his girl a $300 dollar ring

 

[Anubis]

stuff

tell us how you really feel

 

[AreaCode707]

I don't. My message is you will overpay by a stupid amount, you will get absolutely ordinary things, and that those things are intrinsically worthless; you have no outlet.

Fortunately he appears more focused on getting something that will have sentimental value, rather than a financial investment.

Retail jewelry is all uninspired recycled designs, and spectacularly ugly garbage.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Jewelry is ornamentation, and should therefore be pretty.

Purpose is also in the eye of the beholder. In this case I think the OP probably cares less that his choice is "pretty" and more that his choice is pleasing to his fiancee. His fiancee may have her own set of priorities; that it impresses her friends, that it makes reference to some favorite aspect of her life or interests, that it's wildly different than what others like/have, etc.

Pretty is made by artists,

No, "fine", "valuable", "thoughtful" and "art" is made by artists. Pretty is fairly easy to mass produce.

there are very few artists, and artists take time, making custom "fine" (precious stones and metals) jewelry out of the question for most people. All jewelry grade gold mountings with very little exception come from Italy. They are sold by catalogs unavailable to the general public. Stuller is probably the main importer/wholesaler of blanks, chains and mounts in the US, but there are several others. The selection between manufacturers is mainly redundant, and chain and rings styles are largely unchanged for decades, then just recycled according to fashion/demand.

No argument.

The gold is all 14k or 18k, which when compared to 22-24k gold, does not even resemble gold.

...So? 22-24k gold is a very poor choice for a wedding set, since it is soft and won't hold up to day to day use.

Medium value pieces ($5,000 to $100,000 are assembled here at "wholesalers". This term is equivalent to what we are accustomed to in this country as retailers, as far as the level of markup, and number of middle men. Jewelry is an industry of middle men. Diamonds are mainly cut and polished in Belgium, if they are worth dealing with. Some are cut and polished here, but these are generally of lesser quality, or re-cuts.

Also, so? Most people are comparing against their neighbors if they're comparing at all, not the perfect ideal.

The diamonds all originate in South Africa, but the diamonds you will see for the next 100 years have all been mined already. They are still digging, but really only for trophies. They are all "blood diamonds", regardless of the source, as anything that support de Beers is supporting outright slavery.

This is probably the most meaningful observation you've made. We live in a global society; global ethics is everyone's concern.

There are so many diamonds out of the ground, that their true value is somewhere on the order of glass.

And yet it still is more meaningful to some women that they get that particular type of stone in their ring. I think it's silly but the OP's priorities are pleasing his gal.
[/QUOTE]

Other precious stones actually are rare, but you have never even seen a truly valuable ruby or emerald, and you never will.

You make a lot of assumptions.

What you see in stores are man-made or of lesser color, along with some of the other beryls.

Truth.

As with other things the rarest of the rare end up in supremely expensive pieces with values STARTING over $1,000,000 Keep in mind this is 20 year old information from my brain, but the values trend with almost directly with inflation. This is the beginning of the "collector" level of jewelry.

This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the OP's question.

Finally, what you get and what you are told you are getting are two entirely separate things. gem grading is almost entirely subjective and absolutely unregulated. 10 GIAs will give you 10 varying opinions of the same stone when it comes to color, and clarity of any diamond, and this is magnified greatly in any other kind of stone.

Second-most valuable thing you've said in the thread. OP should pick something his fiancee will find attractive and special, and that fits his budget, and not fuss over the specs. Diamonds are not pieces of hardware, or cars.

Most things are not even GIA certified. Past this, jewelry appraisals are a joke. Jewelers want you to feel like you got a deal so they can keep robbing you. Many even advertise appraisal values of double and triple the sale price because they know every other jeweler out there continues the same level of dishonesty. It is truly a loose conspiracy.

Also known as "retail".

My advice, if you are going to buy, is to buy what you like knowing you can not win.

This is a reasonable conclusion.

My goal is that you change your mind about the value of this garbage which has been foisted upon you through very clever marketing campaigns which rely on peer pressure.

Seems a little out of line, since the OP hasn't said anything about his personal opinion about jewelry value.

There are some changes due to the opening of relations with China and especially former Soviet states, mostly in the arena of metals. Combined with current vast knowledge exchange, and decreasing costs of manufacturing equipment, and broader tastes in a shrinking world, some are starting to break into the business of custom jewelry in non and semi-precious materials. Also Indian and Middle-eastern gold jewelry is becoming more accessible. This is true GOLD jewelry, but it is expensive and less durable. If you truly value it though, those problems will take care of themselves. Indian-mined diamonds are and will always be shit. Then again, diamonds are simply boring the way they are generally used. In the past they were mainly accents to far more rare and precious stones.

No real argument to anything here, but not sure it's helpful to the OP.

If you really love someone, knowing how to sexually pleasure them will go a much longer way than any stupid assembly of minerals.

Total non-sequitor. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

I am very fortunate to have been trained by an insurance company which was willing to send me to GIA, and have me spend whole days in Chicago's Jewelers Row, making friends. One of them, who I would say is a 1 in a million personality in the industry, and who routinely referred to his decades-long business associates as "whores", was kind enough to show me everything he knew about everything jewelry.

Sounds like a cool experience. You clearly took a lot away from it. Don't let the additional knowledge make you an ass though; you bring a lot of per-conceived notions about the buyer to the thread without any basis for believing the OP fits your mental profile.

 

[IronWing]

Just buy her a ring tone and call it good.

 

[Malak]

tell us how you really feel

There's a reason I have that guy blocked for a long time now.

 

[Malak]

This. Almost all the rest of the advice in this thread is useless because you don't appear to know your fiancee's tastes in jewelry.

That's part of the problem: She doesn't have a taste that I'm aware of. She just doesn't wear jewelry. I don't think asking her friends will help with that and I'm actually considering just asking her point blank.

 

[AreaCode707]

That's part of the problem: She doesn't have a taste that I'm aware of. She just doesn't wear jewelry. I don't think asking her friends will help with that and I'm actually considering just asking her point blank.

Eh, I rarely have worn jewelry in my life because it seems silly to buy for myself, but I definitely have a taste. And women will frequently stop and admire jewelry together in stores (sisters are better, best friends work too) so her friends may have an idea of her tastes anyway. Especially if she has an inkling you may propose, she may have gone out of her way to make sure one of her friends knows her preference so you have someone to ask. If she hasn't, one of her friends might be willing to ask for you under the guise of causal browsing.

That's assuming you want this to be a surprise. If you don't care, just go ring shopping together.

 

[IronWing]

That's part of the problem: She doesn't have a taste that I'm aware of. She just doesn't wear jewelry. I don't think asking her friends will help with that and I'm actually considering just asking her point blank.

As she is the one who would be wearing it for a long time, assuming she says "Sure, why not, whatever", she should probably be the one to pick it out. And if she says "NOT" then you won't be stuck with a ring that don't fit you.