Need to ditch nForce4 chipset.. any suggestions?

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MDesigner

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Apr 3, 2001
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Well, I will also say that I've had lockups due to other things that are graphical in nature, such as minimizing a window (though it doesn't lock up every time I minimize). I'll try a fresh profile, though, and see if that fixes it.
 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
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http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=29&threadid=1883322&enterthread=y
So what is your take on Abit now? Just kidding:)

Either case I would check your memory as I stated in the other thread. The NF4 is very picky on memory and simply having a set working on another board does not guarantee it will be compatible with a NF4 chipset. This could very well explain your BSOD and corruptions. If I had a nickel for every thread where memory was the source of the problem on a NF4 motherboard, well....
Moving to a AM2 motherboard looks like it's even more pickier from what I read so I wouldn't spend more money until you find the source of your issue. Going through 3 mobos is not normal.
Good luck.

 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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OK, looks like it's not Firefox or the profile.. because a clean profile also locked up on me.

I'll just wait and see what happens when I get my test video card & install it later this week.
 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: LordGestle
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=29&threadid=1883322&enterthread=y
So what is your take on Abit now? Just kidding:)

Either case I would check your memory as I stated in the other thread. The NF4 is very picky on memory and simply having a set working on another board does not guarantee it will be compatible with a NF4 chipset. This could very well explain your BSOD and corruptions. If I had a nickel for every thread where memory was the source of the problem on a NF4 motherboard, well....
Moving to a AM2 motherboard looks like it's even more pickier from what I read so I wouldn't spend more money until you find the source of your issue. Going through 3 mobos is not normal.
Good luck.

It's not the memory. I've tested this pair, and another known working pair. Actually this pair of pqi RAM was in use in another machine for several months, with no issues. Now, I will say that I believe my dual core CPU has a faulty memory controller.. that's going to be RMA'd tomorrow. It IS possible that I got hit by two faulty hardware pieces (CPU and video card), which made it very difficult to pinpoint the problem. So now it seems I'm just dealing with a faulty video card.
 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
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So here is your list:
Faulty Mobo
Faulty Mobo
Faulty Mobo
Faulty CPU
Faulty GPU
The faulty GPU is a very possible since the 7900 had a bad run but most of the issues that I have seen were relating to artifacts.
I have never seen a CPU been at fault unless physical damage occured or they were overclocking to high (which you are not). Not saying that it doesn't happen but very unlikely.
Hopefully your right. Like I said having memory work in another system does not automatically make it compatible with your new system. Example, Corsair and Crucial Balistix (1gb sticks) had issues with early nf4 motherboards so simply having a name brand is not a given. Also having the same brand sticks does not meen they have the same chips, which could also cause issues.
On a side note what Power Supply are you running?






 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
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My Money is on memory compatibility or timing issue. Did you leave the bios set to SPD? Have you tried manual and specify the settings? I would suggest manual if you could dig up the settings from the label on the sticks or from the man. website (preferred). It may also help troubleshoot to relax the timing a little to see if it helps. Example 2-3-3-6-1 to 2.5-3-3-10-2.

Settings are usually listed as:
CAS, tRCD (RAS-to-CAS delay), and tRP (RAS Precharge), TRAS, CMD
Example: The label or website will list 2-3-3-6-1. You need to reference the label to the bios as they may be listed in a different order.
Example Bios maybe listed:
cas: 2
TRAS: 6
tRCD: 3
tRP: 3
CMD: 2
I would try this first as you have already tried 2 different CPUs (Dual and Single CPU). The odds of having 1 defective CPU is very rare, the odds of having 2 are pretty much nill.
It's not uncommon to have memory work great in one system and fail in another. Also the same goes for it to past simulated tests but fail in production.
I know it can be frustrating. I pretty much count on spending a few nights in the garage away from a family when I have a new build. Every now and then you get lucky or if you are familiar/experience with the components it gets easier.
Honestly the Nforce 4 chipset can be a pain in the ass as far as memory but once you get them dialed in they are very stable. I have not experienced a BSOD or reboot on my machine since I built and tweaked the thing over a year ago.
 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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Thanks for the tip. Is it common for TWO brands of RAM (Kingston, pqi) to fail on my nForce4 motherboard? The odds of that struck me as kind of low.

The thing is, I wouldn't know what to set the timings to. The pqi RAM I use says it's 3-4-4-8. CAS is 3, voltage is 2.6V. It's two sticks of 1GB (dual channel), 400MHz.

On another note, I got my test video card in the mail today, a GeForce 6200 LE. I'll be putting that in tonight to see if it stops the lockup when I bring up that graphic. Remember, I try two different CPUs and three motherboards.. but the video card has remained constant the whole time. And it's odd that all the math operations and intensive calculations don't do a thing to my computer, but a simple animated GIF causes a lockup every time.

I'll post an update tonight.
 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
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Having 2 sets of memory is very possible. Example my friend has PNY that works perfectly in a Intel 865 system but on his nforce motherboard he will experience reboots, avg 1-2 a week. The set is memtest stable in both machines. His PQI 2*512mb and 2*512mb work perfectly on his nforce board. He placed the pny back in his spare machine and it runs for days/weeks without issue.
When nforce4 mobos came out it was very common to see these memory issues. Known working memory would either cause issue or fail on the Nforce4 boards. Some of them were resolved with bios updates and the others people bought new or sold/returned them for known working modules.
As far as memory working with certain apps and not others is very common. Example when I overclocked my system to high it would pass prime and memtest 24 hours stable. It would also run guildwars and bf2 for hours. However, with Doom 3 it would kick to the desktop within minutes. So certain apps may stress your system differently.
Also have you tried prime95, occt, and superpi through windows? These are not the "end all" measure for a stable system but I use it first when testing a new build.
Memory issues can be a b*tch as it can cause many issues with the system that you would think might be something else.
I could be wrong, and I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything, but from my experience and if it were me I would pick up some quality memory that's proven (browse the forums) on that motherboard with a good return policy just in case.
For starters here is the memory that I use/tested on nforce4 systems:
Mushkin 2*1GB HP3200 2-3-2-6
OCZ Plat 2*1GB PC3200 2-3-2-6
Mushkin Blue 4*512 PC3200 2-3-2-6
Other modules that I have seen:
GSKill 2*1GB PC3200 2-3-2-6 (Same chips as the 1gb OCZ and Mushkin)
Patriot 2*1GB PC3200 2-3-2-6 (Same chips as the 1gb OCZ and Mushkin)
Regarding your current sticks, 3-4-4-8, you would set the timings in the bios to reflect
3=CAS,4= tRCD (RAS-to-CAS delay), 4=tRP (RAS Precharge), 8=TRAS, 2=CMD
I'm sure on that board that these are only 5 out of 12+ other memory options:) You can leave them default and/or look up on the forums to find out what others would recommend. The ones above should be used for starters. A good resource for bios options is http://www.rojakpot.com/show.aspx?fileID=18. Pretty much start with the relaxed options and you can tighten them later if it proves stable.



 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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OK, here's the update.

Tried the GeForce 6200LE.. this page still locks me up:

http://lisastoner.com/Main/SkullDrinker-small.gif

I tried the RAM settings.. 3-4-4-8, in the BIOS. Still locked up. Set the RAM voltage to 2.6V. Still locks up. And finally, reset the BIOS to defaults... and it still locks up.

I've tried different motherboards, another CPU, different RAM, manual RAM settings, a different video card.. the only thing left is the power supply. Could the power supply REALLY be causing this?? I had the the nVidia 91.31 drivers, then I installed 84.21 over that because 91.31 sucked. But I don't think that would cause these problems, would it? Maybe I should try using Driver Cleaner and reinstalling the video drivers again. I think I'll try that tonight.

If that doesn't fix it... should I just drop the cash and buy a new PSU? Might as well.. because if nothing will fix this, my plan is to just sell this whole system for about $700 "as is," and let some hardcore techie solve it.. then once he does, he will have landed a good deal, because this IS (if it were to work properly) a very high-powered system. Then I can use my new PSU in my new system.
 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
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Why don't you question the ram? PSU is pretty far fetched especially since the gif is the only thing triggering it. One thing I recall seing regarding 7900 series and the Asus board is something called P(something. I want to say E or N?)G. Some option in the bios that will help stability if you disable it in the bios. Some 3 letter acronym.

If you are serious about throwing in the towel I might be able to assist you if you want to pay for shipping both ways. I will only charge a small fee if I can fix it. If not, your only out the shipping.. I think this option is pretty extreme as I would try a new set of memory but I totally understand your frustration and I thought I would just throw it out there.

Just FYI: My heatware is under lordgestle if your interested. As far as qualifications I've been working in IT for 10+ years (ie full time job for 2 major companies during that spree). MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+, Server+, and Inet+ certified. My current title is a Server admin. As always certs don't mean everything but I thought I would throw them in there so you know I at least have some backing with my experience.

Just do some searching on nforce memory lockup. I see them almost daily on one forum or another. Either case good luck.

BTW, I will stop posting on your thread if you want. I'm only trying to help but I'm not to sure if you are getting sick of me saying "memory";) Just let me know.


 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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Well, I'm open to any suggestions you have. I've tried the manual RAM settings.. what else is there to do? I'll plug in my old Kingston RAM sticks in a few minutes, and see if I still get the lockup. I might also add that the animated gif is NOT the only cause of the lockup. The computer locks up other times, randomly.. but it's not often. It's just that the animated gif is the only way I know how to induce it to lock up. I figure once that doesn't lock me up, my probs are solved.

Consider this: if the PSU supplies power to all parts.. CPU, RAM, HDs, etc.. isn't it possible that a faulty PSU could be supplying a slightly weak voltage to the CPU, or to the RAM, and hence make it behave as if it were a faulty component? I'm going to buy a digital multimeter this weekend and test the PSU to make sure all the voltages are normal. If you know of any good articles (for newbies) on how to test a PSU using a digital multimeter, please post 'em here :) I have just one so far:

http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035_11-5566528.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=tr

Geez, I've blown so much cash just trying to diagnose the damn problem. :( What should I do next? I'm really at a loss here. I could just buy a new PSU *and* buy some Corsair RAM or something, and stick it in here and hope for the best. What if that fails?? I've been building PCs for ten years.. I've built at least six or seven of them, maybe more. NEVER had a problem I couldn't troubleshoot. I built my mom a PC.. turned the power on, nothing happened. Fairly quickly realized it was the power supply, got a new one, works great. But this.. this is just beyond insanity. I can't pinpoint the problem.

If you have any advice, I'd appreciate it. BTW, the BIOS option you were thinking of is PEG Link. I'll try finding it and disabling it, and see if that makes a difference (probably not).

Thanks again for all your help.
 

LordGestle

Senior member
Jan 2, 2001
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Well the good/bad thing is your running out of equipment to replace. The DVM would be more accurate but you can also use speedfan to check the voltages on the PSU.

What I have seen regarding power supplies is reboots caused by lack of power during intensive operations, example defrag/scan disk or major 3d applications. Locking up on a gif, I know you mentioned others, to me does not point to a PSU since you can run other applications including 3d applications for longer periods. A gif, I can't imagine taking more power since you card is even running at 2d setting.

Also did you happen to see a CMD or command rate in your bios? I noticed you set the other settings but I did not see that one listed in your post. Make sure it's 2 and not 1. That setting will most likely have 3 settings (auto, 1, 2).

After that I'm pretty much on a loss. I'll jump in If I think of anything else.


 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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Yep I set command rate to 2. Doesn't make a difference either way.

I'll let you know what I find out after this weekend's voltage testing.
 

MDesigner

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Apr 3, 2001
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Yeah I did try Prime95..and SuperPi. They're jokes.. everyone thinks they're great at testing RAM/CPU, when all they really do is tell you that your CPU can perform math properly, and perform under a heavy load. They don't test your CPU's memory controller, or anything like that. All of the diagnostic programs (Prime, SuperPi, Memtest86) run perfectly for me.

I still haven't tried my other two sticks of RAM, or running on just one stick. I'll try it later this evening. Then tomorrow it's multimeter time.. :)
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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MDesigner: Interesting problem you have,my nF4 board is running solid even with Nvidia SW IDE driver installed,I would recommend you use the beta Nvidia 91.33 drivers since I find these to be really great and fix all the main bugs that the 91.31s have.

I would also suggest you install the latest x2 AMD driver and the new AMD Dual-Core Optimizer driver(will need to uninstall the old x2 AMD driver ), link. ,I have not followed all the posts since it is quite long but did you try deleting your firefox profile for firefox and try and new clean install of Firefox.I presume you tried a different video card too?
 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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Yep I already tried a clean Firefox profile. And there's no need for me to install the AMD dual core stuff.. I'm running temporarily on single-core, because my dual core CPU was locking up a lot more often than my single core does.

Question, in the nVidia 91.33 drivers, did they fix that stupid SLI popup tooltip that keeps coming up every time you boot up? Geez I hate that thing. Still, I hate the interface change of the control panel in 91.xx. They really took something that was great, and messed it up. Someone over at nVidia needs some classes in GUI design and usability.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Question, in the nVidia 91.33 drivers, did they fix that stupid SLI popup tooltip that keeps coming up every time you boot up?

Yep that is fixed :).
 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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OK, I tested my PSU (12V and 5V rails, i didn't do the 3.3V rail due to difficulty). The voltages were just fine, even when the lockup occurred.

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah, I still have to mess with the RAM a bit.. remove a stick, try a lower speed (downclock to 333MHz from 400MHz). And if that fails, then I am 100% stumped. Actually, I'll reformat and see if it behaves any better after that. If not, then I really don't know what else to do. Talk about a real mind-boggler...
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
MDesigner: Only time I could get any BSOD or lockups is with Java at some websites if I leave AF and AA not set to application preference,they recommend you leave AA and AF on application preference in Nvidia CP which I do ,and since then (2 weeks after my build last year)no problems,so try that and let me know if stability improves?


You can also use the command setting found in this link,good read anyway. .
 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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Thanks for the response.. it's not Java related though. And AF/AA are set to default (application controlled).

Let's go back & say it's the RAM somehow.. maybe my motherboard doesn't like the timings of 3-4-4-8. If I look at the Corsair PC3200 dual channel RAM, they have timings of 3-3-3-8. Could I try setting my pqi RAM to those settings and see what happens? Would that make a difference?
 

MDesigner

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2001
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OK, this is interesting. I changed my RAM from this:

200MHz (it's DDR, so 400MHz)
3-4-4-8

to this:

166MHz (DDR, 333MHz)
3-3-3-8

And that animated GIF does NOT lock me up anymore. Either it was the CAS timings or the downclock to 333MHz that fixed it. I'll have to see which one it is. The animated GIF has been running for about 4 mins now, no problems. Maybe it's too early to talk.. I'll leave it up some more and see if it locks me up. If this works..can anyone explain why the nForce4 chipset has a prob with 3-4-4-8 400MHz RAM???