Need suggestions for an HTPC/light gaming rig in an ITX case that runs cool

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cebalrai

Senior member
May 18, 2011
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My current HTPC rig that also plays World of Tanks is:

A6-3500 llano 2.1/2.4, GPU core stable at 533 mhz (stable higher but it oveheats)
Radeon HD 6450 dual graphics
4 GB DDR3 1333 that's stable at 1600
Seagate 250 mb HDD (I stream from a NAS drive)
AsRock A75M-ITX board
Rosewill ITX case that's quite tiny but has no case fans
250W ITX-size Rosewill power supply that came with the case


Problems:
1) The fans are too loud for real HTPC use. The stock cooler sucks and the power supply fan adds to the noise. It's rather bothersome and I have to turn the volume up a couple ticks to compensate.

2) It runs too hot due to the case air not circulating much. It idles at 32 degrees, plays movies at 50, and plays games at 72 degrees. If I remove the case cover I can play games at 68 degrees with the GPU core turned up to like 766 mhz, but then it's even louder (and unsafe for my toddler). Also note that we just got a new entertainment system stand that I'd like to put this in. The spot I'd like to put it in doesn't have a door, but it's kind of like a shelf and I imagine it will create a bit of a warm air pocket.


I'm looking for something quieter that can still do light games. Maybe even a case that's a little more attractive and will look okay in an entertainment system stand. Can anyone help me with a new build? I could even swap out the CPU and board if I had to. And I can wait another month or two for Trinity if that would be best. (Or... when is Trinity expected?)

Thanks!
 
AnonymouseUser

AnonymouseUser

Diamond Member
May 14, 2003
9,943
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106
Replacing the stock HSF (if possible) would likely reduce the noise while keeping the CPU cooler. In fact, just replacing the stock thermal grease would do that to a point (lower temps = lower fan speed).

Have you considered replacing the PSU? Could you mount a case fan externally? Could you add a large case fan to the entertainment stand?
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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Might try to quit overclocking first.

Here is an intersting looking case.

Warning this is a youtube video. This is kind of overkill. Intel i-7 and 2 SSD in raid config. Shows the empty boxes the parts came from. The case looks good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669mOxT9M1U&feature=related

I suggest looking at youtube and see what things really look like when assembled. You gotta love youtube. Whether you need a recipe or even need to say how to take a Ruger MarkII pistol apart for cleaning you can find it.
 
Zap

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
cebalrai said:
I'm looking for something quieter that can still do light games. Maybe even a case that's a little more attractive and will look okay in an entertainment system stand.
Click to expand...

There are cases that fit in with other equipment such as surround sound receivers. If this is what you are looking for, then check out the Silverstone GD04, GD05, GD06 and ML03B series cases. They are all micro ATX and use ATX PSUs, but they are small and attractive, yet have great ventilation and can be built to be reasonably quiet. The ML03 is really slim (limits graphics card to around a Radeon 6670) but looks more like a slightly thicker DVD player. The other three are a bit thicker which allows for a normal graphics card. The GD (Grandia) series all seem to use the exact same inner chassis, and differ in how they look in the front.

Lian Li makes a similar sized case with the PC-C50 series. This is what I use for my own HTPC. This Lian Li case can really pack in the HDDs for the size, but assembly (with all drives installed) can be tedious.

nMEDIAPC HTPC 7000B is also similar sized, and has the benefit of a front LCD if you want it to look fancy. However, some of the end user reviews mentioned that the front panel ends up looking a bit "busy."

If you just want it to be small with mini ITX (all previous I listed were mATX), then look into something like the Silverstone SG06. Internally it is identical to the SG05, but the front of the SG05 is an open mesh which increases noise. You can get these with a 300W or 450W PSU. I'd say the 300W would be more than sufficient because if you actually need more power, then you are probably using a higher end (and noisier) graphics card.

If you want the micro towers that almost look like cubes, then Lian Li has you covered with their PC-Q series. PC-Q07 is the smallest and can fit a single slot normal sized graphics card as long as it isn't too long. PC-Q03 is almost the same but even shorter due to using a slim (notebook sized) optical drive. PC-Q11 goes a bit bigger allowing a longer, dual slot graphics card. The other offerings either don't have room for a graphics card of any kind, or go even larger by supporting a half dozen hard drives.

Note that some of these case models I mentioned are missing a letter, such as the PC-Q11B or ML03B. That end letter often denotes the color. Lian Li in particular often offers in B-Black or A-Silver, with the occasional R-Red. So, PC-Q11A would be a silver version of the PC-Q11B, which is black.

Okay, I got a bit carried away. Back to your question (maybe). I feel that the mATX cases I listed are capable of being quieter due to the airflow. The next best are a few of the mini ITX cases such as the Silverstone SG06 and Lian Li PC-Q11. The other mini ITX suffer in airflow like your existing case, albeit not as badly.

So, choose your case first, then choose what goes into it. The SG06 comes with a PSU, but all the other ones will require an ATX PSU. Best bet is a shorter PSU, and of course one of really low wattage. Modular is not necessary as long as you know what cable ties are. Reasonable shorter PSUs are the Seasonic SS-300ET and SS-350ET, Antec NEO ECO 400C and Rosewill Green Series RG430. You may also need fans, if any of the cases don't come with all fan spots filled. I would also point out that you will probably need to undervolt the case fans no matter what you get, unless you replace all the fans with super low RPM units.

Once you have your case, then choose a motherboard. You can of course recycle your existing board, with a new CPU cooler such as the Scythe Shuriken for the mini ITX or the ML03B case, or something a bit larger such as the Scythe Mini Ninja for the GD04/GD05/GD06 or PC-C50 cases.

If you end up with a new motherboard get mATX or mini ITX depending on the case, and I would highly suggest jumping ship to Intel. The reason for this is you seem to want a bit more graphics oomph than what Llano APUs can offer. If you are going to use a discrete graphics card anyways, then may as well go with a low end Intel socket 1155 CPU for these reasons:
1) The stock Intel cooler is quieter than the stock AMD coolers (both with fan profiles enabled in BIOS).
2) The Intel CPU will often be the same or better at gaming than a similarly priced AMD CPU/APU, when a discrete graphics card is used.
3) The Intel CPU will have the same or even lower power draw than similarly priced AMD offerings under idle conditions. Lower power draw = lower heat output = lower noise.
4) The Intel CPU will have much lower power draw under load than similarly priced AMD offerings.

The drawback of course is lower multithreaded performance because for the price Intel will sell you a dual core while you probably get a triple or quad core with AMD. That doesn't matter in gaming, but might in media transcoding unless you use the GPU.

For the graphics card, do NOT get one that has no fan. If you do, one of two things will happen.
1) The graphics card will overheat.
2) You will need to crank up case fans until it becomes noisier than if the graphics card had its own fan.
What you choose for this might have to wait until you choose your case.

Dang, wall of text. Okay, I'm done for the day. Off to play some computer games.
 
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cebalrai

Senior member
May 18, 2011
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Wow, great info here, thanks everyone. I'm definitely going to ditch the case. I might recycle my current motherboard and CPU and drop in a better GPU. The only game I play really is World of Tanks which has modest requirements even on my 1080p plasma TV. It's very GPU-bound so I don't think upgrading my CPU to an Intel or A8 would be worth it.

I wonder if 1866 Mhz ram would be worth it. Ram speed matters with Llano GPUs, right?

I'll research some of those cases tomorrow. As for the Scythe Shuriken coolers, I looked at them a while back and saw that they were usually sold out... And I think Mwave had them listed as being out of production....
 
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cebalrai

Senior member
May 18, 2011
250
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0
mfenn said:
I think that all you need to address your noise and performance concerns is a new case, PSU, HSF, and GPU (ditch the hybrid CFX).

Silverstone SG06B w/ 300W PSU $126
Dual-slot 7750 $100 AR
Zalman CNPS8900 $45 - you might not even need this since the case has better airflow

Obviously cut out the IGP overclocking since you won't be using it with the new GPU.
Click to expand...


How do I know if a particular cooler will work with my board? It's really cramped....
 
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mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
22,400
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www.mfenn.com
cebalrai said:
How do I know if a particular cooler will work with my board? It's really cramped....
Click to expand...

You don't, not really unless you find somebody who has tried it. Some Photoshop measurement says that the CNPS8900 should clear the PCIe slot, though it will be tight. RAM clearance will be a problem if you have RAM with tall heatspreaders though.
 
Zap

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
mfenn said:
I think that all you need to address your noise and performance concerns is a new case, PSU, HSF, and GPU (ditch the hybrid CFX).

Silverstone SG06B w/ 300W PSU $126
Dual-slot 7750 $100 AR
Zalman CNPS8900 $45 - you might not even need this since the case has better airflow

Obviously cut out the IGP overclocking since you won't be using it with the new GPU.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this, except of course to point out that as usual Amazon currently beats Newegg on the case/PSU by almost $22 after factoring in shipping.

Oh yeah, and I'd go with the Scythe Big Shuriken on the CPU cooler because it is a proven cooler and the fan can be swapped out if necessary.

Not using the IGP (let alone overclocked) will reduce CPU temperatures, plus once you move past a certain point in discrete GPU performance the IGP won't be adding much to performance, and IIRC isn't even allowed in the drivers.
 
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cebalrai

Senior member
May 18, 2011
250
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0
Zap said:
I agree with all of this, except of course to point out that as usual Amazon currently beats Newegg on the case/PSU by almost $22 after factoring in shipping.

Oh yeah, and I'd go with the Scythe Big Shuriken on the CPU cooler because it is a proven cooler and the fan can be swapped out if necessary.

Not using the IGP (let alone overclocked) will reduce CPU temperatures, plus once you move past a certain point in discrete GPU performance the IGP won't be adding much to performance, and IIRC isn't even allowed in the drivers.
Click to expand...

That case looks really good. A 120 mm fan sound better than zero fans in my case :)

If I got a discreet GPU like that 7750 I wouldn't/couldn't use the iGPU because it's not compatible with the 7000-series. Honestly I don't really need that much GPU power in this machine... But $109 is pretty cheap.

What about waiting for a Trinity A10 and using that iGPU? What's the release date for that supposed to be? I see Acer and HP have been selling them for a while...
 
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mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Not sure on the release date for Trinity, but since it would require a new mobo anyway, I would just switch over to Intel and get a discrete GPU. Not that I think that there is anything wrong with your current CPU for your tasks, you just need more GPU power.
 
Zap

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
cebalrai said:
Is there any chance one of the new sealed mini liquid coolers would work in a little build like this?

Antec KUHLER H2O 920
Click to expand...

Yes, with a couple caveats. First thing is that it won't fit "normally." The drive bays get in the way because they dangle down and cover the top edge of the fan. Second thing is that the one you linked to is really thick and may or may not fit. Most people who do this (and people HAVE done this) use the lower end thinner models. Note that while temperatures and noise levels can be decent, a good fan/heatsink can still get quieter if your CPU doesn't create much heat (such as with an Intel dual core) due to the fact that the pump makes constant noise.
 
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