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Need some opinions about entry level jobs in IT (Netwoks/Cisco/Programming)

ibex333

ibex333

Diamond Member
So I am almost done with my BS in Business Management and Administration, with concentration in Data Communications. (my college doesn't have a CS degree)
I am also A+ Certified, which off course is insignificant - I know that already.

After I graduate in June, I have 4 options:

1)Continue with my concentration, for a Master's degree in Information systems with concentration in Data Communications. (offered in my college, and not too expensive because I get an employee discount)
But! A lot of people tell me that this path is doomed for failure, because after 4 years I know very little about corporate level networking, Cisco, and all that jazz. Also, the networking field is too broad, with employers posting ads on Dice with requirements such as: "Must know SQL, Java, have 4 years experience, know VBScript AND be Cisco Certified" Therefore, I feel like if I am to go for Networking, I will have a very hard time landing a 60k job any time soon, if ever.

2)Forget all that networking stuff altogether, and go for Master's in Information Systems with concentration in Databases/SQL. (offered in my college, and they wont even make me take any bridge classes because I already taken a beginner course in SQL and other requirements for this major)
Again, a lot of people tell me this is a much better path because with programming/SQL, at least when one is looking for a job, there are specific, concrete, defined requirements, such as "You must know Oracle/SQL, have 4 years experience... and.. That's it."- unlike #1 above. Sure, there are always crazy employers asking for knowledge of everything, but again, supposedly with SQL it is usually more "clear" what you have to do at work, and how you can qualify to get hired.
But! I am horrible in Mathematics, and I know absolutely nothing about programming. In fact I find it extremely boring and tedious, having tried BASIC, Visual Basic and Java. On top of that, I hardly learned anything at all in my SQL class(read above). Some of my friends tell me the Masters in Databases is quite hard in our college, and the professors require a lot of work and dedication

3)Drop everything and go for my Masters in another, better college where I can go for something like C++ or Java.
But! As already said above I know nothing about this stuff, will have to take a ton of bridge classes, and I cant really afford this financially

4)Stay home studying for Cisco certification, continue working at my crappy job as a college computer lab technician, and hope that some day I can get some sort of a descent Networking job, and at the same time try to find some sort of a better job with what I know at this point, which is "not much."
But! I am 30 years old, and I need to do something with my life, and as soon as possible. Something that will allow me to get married and support a family sometime soon


Just want to hear some opinions from people who work in these fields and find out what you'd suggest I do right now.
 
As for the masters degree, what kind of debt will you incur?

With the pay difference between BS and masters, it even worth your time and effort?

My honest suggestion, forget IT and get a real job. Working in IT is one of the most unsatisfying fields I have had in my 25+ years in the job market.
 
Yeah IT sucks. But then again you don't know if you don't try. Some people love it, some just like, some live with it because they have obligations, others hate it.
 
Texashiker said:
As for the masters degree, what kind of debt will you incur?

With the pay difference between BS and masters, it even worth your time and effort?

My honest suggestion, forget IT and get a real job. Working in IT is one of the most unsatisfying fields I have had in my 25+ years in the job market.
Click to expand...

The main difference for me between BS and Masters is that:
a)I might actually "learn" something for a change.
b)My degree will actually have words "Information Systems" in it instead of "Business Management and Administration" which will look a hell of a lot better on my resume in the future.

As for money, I will NOT get into debt if I take it in my college. I will be completely broke, and I'll continue living with parents, but at least I will be paying for my degree all by myself, completely, and in full.

And what do you mean by a "real job"? Mmmmm? I don't have it in me to become a mobster or a thief like Bernie Madoff.. : (
 
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In IT, experience means more than certs much of the time. You don't really say if you by nature know enough about technology to be in an IT job. If all you really know about technology is what you learned in college, then it probably is not the career choice you should move forward with unless you are willing to start at the very bottom. I say this because it's true. Having worked with many different customers/vendors in my line of work, the biggest complaint I hear is of employees/coworkers who sound good on paper, but don't have any real world experience to back it up.

That being said, remember that what job listings post as "requirements" often translates to "best case scenario this is what we want". The reality is you could get lucky and not be familiar with half of what they want, as long as you show some sort of ability to learn, and still get the job if other candidates want more than they are willing to pay etc. Getting your foot in the door is key, and again experience helps.

When I switched to a true IT career 7 years ago, I didn't feel I met most of the requirements asked for in listing for the job I got, but I applied anyway. I was up front about where my knowledge lacked. I think this is key as well. Remember, that is what they want, it doesn't mean someone out there has all those skills and wants to work for them.

As for some of the other comments, I must be lucky. I have LOVED my job since I got it. Maybe because I'm used to working so much harder and dirtier for such less pay for so many years.

Good luck to you.
 
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I'm a Network Engineer and I hate it other than my new boss who rocks. I hate IT. I wish I never went into this field. Run far, far away.

I wish I went into HR or something.

BTW, in Networking based on my experience a degree gets you almost nowhere. They'd rather hire a CCIE with a High School Diploma or GED and 5 years experience. It's all about the certs. And they expire. It's absolutely retarded. Also you're competing with lots of Visa workers willing to work on contract. It's not fun.

I put my resume up on Careerbuilder and almost every call is requiring a Cisco cert, and they're usually foreign (I won't say which as to sound racist) and I can't understand a word that they say. And 90% of the time, it's a 3-6 month contract. Rarely a contract to hire. Nobody trusts anybody these days.
 
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ibex333 said:
And what do you mean by a "real job"?
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Get your BS degree, join into the military, go through ROTC school, retire in 20 years, get a job in the civilian market as a consultant for private companies that do contract work for the military.

Go into law enforcement for a computer crimes department.

Do not just throw yourself at the job market, think long term, 20 - 25 years long term.
 
ImpulsE69 said:
In IT, experience means more than certs much of the time. You don't really say if you by nature know enough about technology to be in an IT job.
Click to expand...

Well.. I have a lot of experience with repairing, building and upgrading PCs. I know my way around windows ok. I can install and administer a small network. With some more training, I'd say I have basic knowledge of Server 2008 R2. I can troubleshoot most "user level" problems over the phone quite well, and as already stated, I am A+ certified. That places me in a position to be looking for an entry level Desktop Support job. I sort of already have that, and obviously I want something much, much better.

Texashiker said:
Go into law enforcement for a computer crimes department.
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Where/how can I look for jobs such as this? Never seen postings for that.
 
#2: I don't believe pure database/SQL jobs are going to be a thing for many more years. Two major trends are working against this market: Greater use of hosting services like Amazon RDS, and increasingly powerful and mature abstraction layers for databases (ActiveRecord and the like).

While there's always a place for someone who can tune SQL, that role likely falls to the developer of an application, not a dedicated database administrator.

Two small things as well: First, databases are less about math and more about logic. There's no different in terms of semantics, but in practical terms it's not like you'll need to know how to integrate a function. Second, AFAIK the job will mostly involve optimization, which is more about learning the particulars of a database system like Oracle or MySQL and less about mathematics or logic.

#3: We (speaking as a developer) are starting to see a shift away from high level languages back towards mid-level languages like C++ as scalability becomes a bigger issue. I think this is a terrific job market to get into right now.
 
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As far as the job requirements, don't sweat it. I've been on both sides of the interview process and in my experience the ridiculous certs and experience that are stated as "required" are rarely ever met by the candidates.

Yes, I'm sure there are some jobs you will find that are strict on their requirements, but for many jobs I've applied for (and interviews I've sat in on) the requirements were not the top priority. Make sure your resume (not just the cover letter) matches the job's requirements as much as possible and sell yourself in the interview.
 
ibex333 said:
As for money, I will NOT get into debt if I take it in my college. I will be completely broke, and I'll continue living with parents, but at least I will be paying for my degree all by myself, completely, and in full.
Click to expand...

Don't make this mistake. Find a job where they'll pay for your Master's degree.
 
Geekish Thoughts said:
I'm a Network Engineer and I hate it other than my new boss who rocks. I hate IT. I wish I never went into this field. Run far, far away.
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I've been in several positions in IT over the course of my career, and I agree with you and wish I could move over to something else. Project Management is something I've been studying and considering, but I just don't know.
 
College is where you're supposed to learn the foundational theory of your field. SQL, Oracle, C++, Java, Cisco, etc. are not theory; they're tools that you can learn in your own time. If you're going to college (especially a master's program 😵) to learn tools that will likely be obsolete in several years, you're wasting your time and money.

Since you're getting ready to graduate, I would take stock of the marketable skills that you have, and then go on job sites like Dice, Monster, etc. as well as the career pages of companies you might want to work for, and look at what types of jobs you might qualify for, and make notes of any gaps between your skills and the skills the job requires. Do whatever you can to close those gaps. Also, since it doesn't sound like you have much experience, I would strongly consider pursuing any type of industry/vendor certification (on your own time!) that you feel even remotely qualified for or interested in getting so that you have something to put on your resume.

While you're still in college, you'll also want to take advantage of any internship opportunities available for you. At this point in your education as well as your career, you can't really afford to be picky, so I'd suggest taking any reasonable internship offer so that you can get your foot in the door. If you haven't already done so, now would be the time to take advantage of your college's career center (or whatever department is responsible for helping students transition into the workforce).

Lastly, you may want to start looking at some temp agencies.
 
Don't do it.

Would probably have better luck doing gay porn at a more comfortable rate on what you're looking to earn in the foreseeable future.
 
HAL9000 said:
TL;DR

Get your CCNA.
Click to expand...

That strictly depends on his interest level in IT. If he wants to build networks as a contractor, sure. But what good is a CCNA to a Linux/Windows admin? A programmer? Etc? I have read through all the material, but beyond understanding the concepts, the cert that goes with the CCNA is good to someone who has to apply that daily. Not your everyday IT person. It doesn't hurt, but it isn't required either.

Long story short, the OP should focus on the side that interests him the most.
 
SaDiZTiKStyLeZ said:
Don't do it.

Would probably have better luck doing gay porn at a more comfortable rate on what you're looking to earn in the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...


That's a little harsh of you. A friend landed a job working for Fox News as a javascript developer recently. Pay rate is 60k+. He only has a Bachelors in web design, and was sitting home for 5 years after graduation since his Flash skills were obsolete and he was too lazy to update them. Finally he bought some books, and read, read, read + practiced and after two more years, got the job. He did find someone who helped him BS like crazy on his resume and create a great portfolio website. Not that I am about to follow his path, just saying it cant be THAT bad.
 
yllus said:
increasingly powerful and mature abstraction layers for databases (ActiveRecord and the like).
Click to expand...

as of now even automated generation/migration such as activerecord, gorm, hibernate, EF, etc still require tweaking for performance, maintenance, and care and feeding from DBAs. i think that'll still be required for at least another decade.
 
brianmanahan said:
as of now even automated generation/migration such as activerecord, gorm, hibernate, EF, etc still require tweaking for performance, maintenance, and care and feeding from DBAs. i think that'll still be required for at least another decade.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree - the automated stuff needs even more tweaking than non-object relational mapping systems. However, that's a contract job at best.
 
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