Need some advice

[MrYAK]

ok, building a new rig as soon as i figure this out. This rig will be my pure gaming rig(World of Warcraft mainly, UT, upcoming games). now i'm having trouble on choosing a video card. It will be PCI-X.

Here is the specs of the new comp:

CPU: AMD64 3500+
Mobo: most likely Asus, NF4 non SLI
RAM: OCZ 3200 plat rev2
PSU: OCZ Modstream 520w
Case: TT dreamtower
Sound: Audigy2
Cooling: Water
HD: WD raptor

I've seen all the reviews and what not, but i wanted some input from the users like us. what probs have you had/have not had, OCed, heat, performance.

Here are the 2 cards in question:
X850 XT
6800 Ultra

Also, how good of a brand is eVGA? have not heard much from them.

But what is really wierd to me is, the x850 xt has way more clock speed than the 6800u, but it still keeps up with it. does shader 3.0 really improve the performance that much or is there something else thats going?

 

[Waylay00]

Get the X850XT. It's a great card. I just got one myself at COMPUSA. Shaer 3.0 isn't even being used into today's games, except FarCry.

 

[mwmorph]

pci-e not x. pci-x is a high end workstation slot. no video cards support pci-x(unless you count normal pci cards).

as for vidoe card, go x850xt. faster by quite a bit, though the ultra does support more eye candy.

PCI-X:

Short for PCI extended, an enhanced PCI bus. PCI-X is backward-compatible with existing PCI cards. It improves upon the speed of PCI from 133 MBps to as much as 1 GBps.

PCI-X was designed jointly by IBM, HP and Compaq to increase performance of high bandwidth devices, such as Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel, and processors that are part of a cluster.

PCI Express:

(pe-se-i ik-spres´) (n.) An I/O interconnect bus standard (which includes a protocol and a layered architecture) that expands on and doubles the data transfer rates of original PCI. PCI Express is a two-way, serial connection that carries data in packets along two pairs of point-to-point data lanes, compared to the single parallel data bus of traditional PCI that routes data at a set rate. Initial bit rates for PCI Express reach 2.5Gb/s per lane direction, which equate to data transfer rates of approximately 200MB/s. PCI Express was developed so that high-speed interconnects such as 1394b, USB 2.0, InfiniBand and Gigabit Ethernet would have an I/O architecture suitable for their transfer high speeds.

 

[imported_Noob]

Definitely the X850 XT PE. No games really use SM 3.0 to make an image quality difference from 2.0b except fro the HDR Bloom effect, which is supported in ATI's latest drivers anyway. Plus AA and AF don't severly kill performance on the X800/X850 like it does on the 6800. Plus it looks better on the X850! But it wouldn't suggest picking up a 6800 Ultra in the hopes that SM 3.0 will advance fast enough before these cards become outdated.

 

[MrYAK]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
pci-e not x. pci-x is a high end workstation slot. no video cards support pci-x(unless you count normal pci cards).

as for vidoe card, go x850xt. faster by quite a bit, though the ultra does support more eye candy.

PCI-X:

Short for PCI extended, an enhanced PCI bus. PCI-X is backward-compatible with existing PCI cards. It improves upon the speed of PCI from 133 MBps to as much as 1 GBps.

PCI-X was designed jointly by IBM, HP and Compaq to increase performance of high bandwidth devices, such as Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel, and processors that are part of a cluster.

PCI Express:

(pe-se-i ik-spres´) (n.) An I/O interconnect bus standard (which includes a protocol and a layered architecture) that expands on and doubles the data transfer rates of original PCI. PCI Express is a two-way, serial connection that carries data in packets along two pairs of point-to-point data lanes, compared to the single parallel data bus of traditional PCI that routes data at a set rate. Initial bit rates for PCI Express reach 2.5Gb/s per lane direction, which equate to data transfer rates of approximately 200MB/s. PCI Express was developed so that high-speed interconnects such as 1394b, USB 2.0, InfiniBand and Gigabit Ethernet would have an I/O architecture suitable for their transfer high speeds.

Interesting, thanks for that read.

Also, thanks for the input guys. ordering parts now

 

[Pete]

ATi should release a SM3.0 card in a few months, and nV should also be releasing an update to the 6800U soon. If I were you, I'd just buy a $300 X800XL to tide you over until the second half of this year, when you should be able to pick up a really fast SM3 card from either ATi or nV. As the X800XL is cheaper than either the X850XT or 6800U, it should depreciate less, so you should be able to sell it for closer to your purchase price when you upgrade.

I do think that if you're willing to spend $500, you should get SM3. I don't think, however, that the current 6800U is fast enough at SM3 to make SM3 the deciding factor over the X850's SM2 featureset. So I say get the X800XL and sit tight for the "second gen" SM3 cards.

 

[imported_Noob]

Originally posted by: Pete
ATi should release a SM3.0 card in a few months, and nV should also be releasing an update to the 6800U soon. If I were you, I'd just buy a $300 X800XL to tide you over until the second half of this year, when you should be able to pick up a really fast SM3 card from either ATi or nV. As the X800XL is cheaper than either the X850XT or 6800U, it should depreciate less, so you should be able to sell it for closer to your purchase price when you upgrade.

I do think that if you're willing to spend $500, you should get SM3. I don't think, however, that the current 6800U is fast enough at SM3 to make SM3 the deciding factor over the X850's SM2 featureset. So I say get the X800XL and sit tight for the "second gen" SM3 cards.

The X950 XT (R520) is supposed to be coming out this Spring. But Nvidia cancelled their 6800 Ultra XT (NV48) if that is the card you are talking about. Nvidia's next card is specualted to be called a 6900 (NV50).

I would take Pete's advice though Myrak. The X850 XT probably isn't worth it now.

 

[MrYAK]

i didnt see any info on the x950 xt, the only thing i found was this, but i really doubt this is accurate.

 

[Gamingphreek]

There is a crap load of misinformation here.

NV50 is not the name of Nvidias next generation solution. It is G70, and also Nvidia has confirmed it will be a completely new architecture not based on anything else. Where are you hearing that Nvidia cancelled a card and ATI is releasing in a few months. In a few months the next gen cards will be "launched". Please site some of this information...

Personally i would choose the 6800U over the X800XT if you do not plan on upgrading first thing next generation. The 6800U will last longer, even if for some reason SM3 kills performance, it is better to have it than not to have it. I seriously seriously doubt that it will render games unplayable. Additionally once MS gets the tail in gear and releases the new .dll's Purevideo will help the cards out a great deal. However if you plan on upgrading next gen earlier or midway throught the X800's are probably a better choice seeing as they are very fast, and since you will be upgrading SM3 is of no concern as the card wont be around long enough before you upgrade. I also agree that the X850XT is not worth it. Honestly i would have a hard time recommending the XTPE.

1. If you plan on upgrading next gen early or midway through you will probably want performance over features, so get the X800XL or the X800XT. The 850 is not worth it for the price, nor is the PE.

2. If you plan on upgrading very late next gen or not upgrading at all next gen, i would highly recommend the 6800's of the X800's because of the aformentioned reasons.

-Kevin

 

[imported_humey]

Asking about ATI or NVIDIA will jsut start a flame lol

You cant compair a new 850 to 10month old tec n40, need wait on new nvidias to see, but i wont ever own a ATI cause i have the choice not to

Go read reviews and make your own decision is all i will say.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: MrYAK
i didnt see any info on the x950 xt, the only thing i found was this, but i really doubt this is accurate.

That looks completely fake. If you look really closely you can see outlines around some of the numbers (that might be the compression or the encoding). Additionally the 5.2 drivers mention no support for an "X900XT". Furthermore, think about that. X900 would merely be another refresh for the same generation. In order to continue the naming scheme, it would have to be XIxxx.

-Kevin

 

[MrYAK]

i've read lots of reviews, most say that they are neck and neck, just wanted some real user input and other thoughts. i just havent heard of the next gen cards yet.

getting the x800 xl sounds like a better deal and waiting for next gens to come out. save me some money atleast.

 

[Mrvile]

UT doesn't really require a very powerful video card, and neither does WoW. The mid-sized current card would do nicely for both games, something like the 6800GT or X800XL. However, if you want the latest and greatest (that might last you a nice while) the X850XT is a great buy. Although not too much more powerful than the X800XT it takes the place of, it actually costs a nice deal LESS and outperforms the 6800Ultra.

 

[imported_Noob]

Originally posted by: MrYAK
i didnt see any info on the x950 xt, the only thing i found was this, but i really doubt this is accurate.

That's the exact same link I found before. Hopefully it is accurate. You can bet the 512mb of ram is.

 

[imported_Noob]

Originally posted by: MrYAK
i've read lots of reviews, most say that they are neck and neck, just wanted some real user input and other thoughts. i just havent heard of the next gen cards yet.

getting the x800 xl sounds like a better deal and waiting for next gens to come out. save me some money atleast.

That would be smarter in a long term basis. But there is no doubt that the X800's outperform the 6800's. Both in image quality and performance (especially when AA and AF are enabled). Only until SM 3.0 advanced more though. Then the 6800 will have some better lighting and vertex shading. But since you are looking to buy the next gen cards. Stick with the better performer/image quality card.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Both in image quality

Ummm... there is no doubt? Your are very sorely mistaken. Care to try backup any of that "information" with some links?

-Kevin

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Noob
The X950 XT (R520) is supposed to be coming out this Spring. But Nvidia cancelled their 6800 Ultra XT (NV48) if that is the card you are talking about. Nvidia's next card is specualted to be called a 6900 (NV50).

You sure about that info? I doubt ATi will release a SM3 card and just add 100 to the model name. SM3 is a new series, not card, IMO. Then again, maybe ATi wants to play down SM3, especially until they unveil their unified shaders....

As for 6800U XT, I just can't imagine nV biting ATi's own name for a new card. It's far more likely a speed-bumped 6800 will arrive as a 6850 or 6900, and I don't think it'll be a new generation core (NV50), but rather a speed-bumped and tweaked NV40 (a la GF3 -> GF4, aka NV20->NV25).

Anyway, I'm not really in the loop with next-gen naming. G70 is way over my head, but it makes a helluva lotta sense for nV to name their seventh-gen GeForce chip the (*drumroll*) G70 (generation 7.0?). The new code name promises feature advances, but I'm not expecting much beyond a faster NV40 with some reworking of FP blending and buffers.

 

[imported_Noob]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Noob
The X950 XT (R520) is supposed to be coming out this Spring. But Nvidia cancelled their 6800 Ultra XT (NV48) if that is the card you are talking about. Nvidia's next card is specualted to be called a 6900 (NV50).

You sure about that info? I doubt ATi will release a SM3 card and just add 100 to the model name. SM3 is a new series, not card, IMO. Then again, maybe ATi wants to play down SM3, especially until they unveil their unified shaders....

As for 6800U XT, I just can't imagine nV biting ATi's own name for a new card. It's far more likely a speed-bumped 6800 will arrive as a 6850 or 6900, and I don't think it'll be a new generation core (NV50), but rather a speed-bumped and tweaked NV40 (a la GF3 -> GF4, aka NV20->NV25).

Anyway, I'm not really in the loop with next-gen naming. G70 is way over my head, but it makes a helluva lotta sense for nV to name their seventh-gen GeForce chip the (*drumroll*) G70 (generation 7.0?). The new code name promises feature advances, but I'm not expecting much beyond a faster NV40 with some reworking of FP blending and buffers.

I don't know for a fact. But I was alwasy under the impression the 6800 Ultra XT got cancelled because it couldn't compete with the X800's. The Ultra XT was supposed to be just a 10% performance boost from the 6800 Ultra. But for sure ATI's next gen card will support SM 3.0 considering it will be getting more advanced as time goes on.

 

[Pete]

Oh, you mean the 425-450/1200MHz Ultra "Extreme" that's been touted in Anandtech and other sites' benches for, well, forever? My suspision that it was a marketing response to the XT PE (itself probably a marketing response to the 6800U) has been confirmed by the fact that I don't see 6800UEs named as such. Some AIBs do sell OCed 6800Us, but they're typically labelled as OC'ed, not Ultra Extremes.

 

[Munky]

* Sits back watching this thread turn into a BBQ. *

I would not get either one of those. WHY? Because I'm more interested in the performance of the card compared to it's price. And you can hardly call the x850xt or the 6800u a good value, especially how they go for above MSRP prices. I'd seriously get a x800XL, because it offers about 75% the performance of the x850xt, for about half the price, roughly speaking. And with the money I save, I'll have more left to upgrade to a newer next-gen card, which will probably beat the current high end card for a lot less money, AND offer newer features. You do the math.

 

Actually PCI-X 533 can shoot out as much bandwidth as a PCI-E x16, I hear. Also, if you're not planning to go SLI, I'd take the ATI.

 

[Waylay00]

Munky does have a good point. I'm almost tempted to return this X850XT.

 

[Mykl]

Originally posted by: MrYAK
ok, building a new rig as soon as i figure this out. This rig will be my pure gaming rig(World of Warcraft mainly, UT, upcoming games). now i'm having trouble on choosing a video card. It will be PCI-X.

Here is the specs of the new comp:

CPU: AMD64 3500+
Mobo: most likely Asus, NF4 non SLI
RAM: OCZ 3200 plat rev2
PSU: OCZ Modstream 520w
Case: TT dreamtower
Sound: Audigy2
Cooling: Water
HD: WD raptor

I've seen all the reviews and what not, but i wanted some input from the users like us. what probs have you had/have not had, OCed, heat, performance.

I don't mean to take this off topic... but for your listed goals this system is some serious overkill.

If you just want the satisfaction of knowing that you've got the best stuff you can get, that's completely understandable. Just seems like you're going overboard.

Sorry for the distraction... just wanted to voice this point.

 

[Spike]

Not to ask a few silly questions, but here we go... If you are in the upgrade sooner rather than later mood, why not get a 6600GT? They can play all the current games and only cost $190ish so you save lots of money now while you wait for the next-gen.

And as for the claims above, does the ATI line really out-perform the nVidia line as much as people are saying? I have been looking at the older benchies on anandtech and it looks like the 6800U holds it's own against everyone except the X850XT, though maybe these are out-dated. Anyone have newer benchies that I am missing?

One thing for the OP to consider is overclocking. I have NO idea how well ATI overclocks with their current gen cards (my 8500 oc'ed very well) but I know my BFG 6800GT oc'ed to 420/1100 which is well above the 6800U speeds. This can NOT be considered typical as YMMV, especially in the OC arena.

I am personally happy with my 6800GT I got for $350 4 months ago, I do plan to upgrade by January '06, but that will be the quickest upgrade I have ever done. I have to retire this AXP rig sometime.

-spike

 

[JBT]

I'd personally get the X800XL at new egg which is only 330 for today. But between those I would EASILY choose the X850XT. Cheaper and faster I don't see a problem with that. I belive the MSRP is suppose to be 499 as well so thats like 30 under.