need opinions on 2 x quad core 1U game server build

[Trizik]

i'm shopping for parts to build a box that will be entirely dedicated to hosting 32+ slot game servers on Windows Server 2003. i will NOT be overclocking and i don't care about brands

the minimal processing power i require is Intel's Xeon 2.33GHz (what's AMD's equivalent?)

i'd like to keep my budget around $1,000 but i know that's not realistic because the parts i selected are already pushing me ~$350 over that without shipping, so i guess i'm willing to spend upwards of $1,500

please give me your opinions and let me know if you see any problems with this build:

summary (detailed specs at bottom of post)

1 x Supermicro 1U ATX case with 520W power supply
1 x Supermicro dual LGA 771 socket ATX motherboard
2 x quad core Xeon E5410 2.33GHz LGA 771 80W CPU
4 x 2GB DDR2 667 ECC Registered RAM
1 x Western Digital 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" hard drive

my concerns:

1) is the included 520W power supply enough to power everything?
2) should i go for a hard drive that has higher RPM/lower cache or lower RPM/higher cache?

details specs:

1 x SUPERMICRO CSE-813MTQ-520CB Black 1U Rackmount Server Case w/ 520W Power Supply

Model
Brand SUPERMICRO
Model CSE-813MTQ-520CB
Spec
Chassis Type Rackmount
Color Black
Motherboard Compatibility 12" x 10" ATX
Form Factor 1U
Power Supply w/ 520W Power Supply
Expansion
Hot-Swap Drive Bays 4 x 3.5" Hot-swap SAS/SATA drive bays
Expansion Slots 1
Front Ports
Front Ports USB / COM
Cooling System
40mm Fans 4
Physical Spec
Dimensions(L x W x H) 19.8" x 17.2" x 1.7"
Features
Features Power Switch / Reset & 5 LED Indicators

1 x SUPERMICRO MBD-X7DCL-I Dual LGA 771 Intel 5100 ATX Dual Intel Xeon Server Motherboard

Model
Brand SUPERMICRO
Model MBD-X7DCL-I
Supported CPU
CPU Socket Type Dual LGA 771
CPU Type Dual Intel Xeon
FSB 1333/1066MHz
Chipsets
North Bridge Intel 5100
South Bridge Intel ICH9R
Memory
Number of DDR2 Slots 6 x 240Pin
DDR2 Standard DDR2 667
Maximum Memory Supported 48GB
ECC Supported Yes
Registered Yes
Expansion Slots
PCI Express x8 2
PCI Express x4 1 (x4) PCI-e (using x8) slot
PCI Slots 3
Storage Devices
PATA 1 x ATA 100 2 Dev. Max
SATA 6 x SATA 3.0Gb/s
SATA RAID RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 support (Windows only)
RAID 0, 1, 10 support (Linux)
Onboard Video
Onboard Video Chipset XGI Z9s
Onboard LAN
LAN Chipset Intel 82573V
LAN Speed 10/100/1000Mbps
Second LAN Chipset Intel 82573L
Second LAN Speed 10/100/1000Mbps
Max LAN Speed Dual 10/100/1000Mbps
Rear Panel Ports
PS/2 2
COM 1
Video Ports D-Sub
USB 1.1/2.0 2 x USB 2.0
Onboard USB
Onboard USB 3x USB internal header
Physical Spec
Form Factor ATX
Dimensions 12.05" x 10.0"

2 x Intel Xeon E5410 Harpertown 2.33GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 771 80W Quad-Core Processor

General
Brand Intel
Series Xeon
Model BX80574E5410A
CPU Socket Type
CPU Socket Type LGA 771
Tech Spec
Core Harpertown
Multi-Core Quad-Core
Name Xeon E5410
Operating Frequency 2.33GHz
FSB 1333MHz
L2 Cache 12MB
Manufacturing Tech 45 nm
64 bit Support Yes
Virtualization Technology Support Yes
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4, EM64T
Voltage 0.95V - 1.225V
Thermal Design Power 80W
Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan included

4 x Kingston ValueRAM 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Server Memory Model KVR667D2D8P5/2G

Model
Brand Kingston
Series ValueRAM
Model KVR667D2D8P5/2G
Type 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM
Tech Spec
Capacity 2GB
Speed DDR2 667 (PC2 5300)
Cas Latency 5
Voltage 1.8V
ECC Yes
Buffered/Registered Registered
Heat Spreader No
Features Dual Rank

1 x Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

Model
Brand Western Digital
Series Caviar Blue
Model WD5000AAKS
Packaging Bare Drive
Performance
Interface SATA 3.0Gb/s
Capacity 500GB
RPM 7200 RPM
Cache 16MB
Average Seek Time 8.9ms
Average Write Time 10.9ms
Average Latency 4.2ms
Physical Spec
Form Factor 3.5"
Features
Features Top performance for Windows Vista
IntelliSeek - Calculates optimum seek speeds to lower power consumption, noise and vibration.
SecurePark - Parks the recording heads off the disk surface during spin up, spin down and when the drive is off. This ensures the recording head never touches the disk surface resulting in improved long term reliability due to less head wear, and improved non- operational shock tolerance.

thanks

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

You should be using Nehalem architectures.

 

[Trizik]

why?

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

They are the best cpu's out and are within your price range. Just get a Core i7 960 and you'll have 8 threads running at 3.2GHz. It's $590 at newegg.

 

[Trizik]

but that's only 4 cores

in my past experience hyper-threading basically just limits the game servers to 50% of each core's processing power because the software isn't multi-threaded

each game server needs single-threaded ~2.33GHz dedicated to it

and 2 x Xeon E5410 is cheaper than 1 x Core i7-960

if i'm misunderstanding something please do steer me in the right direction

thanks

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

The software would have to be multi-threaded to run on 8 cores in the first place. You could also get dual Nehalem Xeons.

 

[RebateMonger]

Any particular game(s) you'll be serving?

 

[Trizik]

The software would have to be multi-threaded to run on 8 cores in the first place.

i don't want to run the software across all cores (it's not possible anyway), i want to dedicate a whole core to each server via affinity

Any particular game(s) you'll be serving?

definitely TF2, Shattered Horizon, and unreleased NS2

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

i don't want to run the software across all cores (it's not possible anyway), i want to dedicate a whole core to each server via affinity

definitely TF2, Shattered Horizon, and unreleased NS2

Which you can do because a thread is a thread! Whatever, have fun with Core 2.

 

[Trizik]

if hyper-threading is enabled and two game servers are each on their own thread on the same core, won't each server only be able to use 50% of the core?

that's how it was a few years ago when i ran this game server software with hyper-threading enabled

did hyper-threading change in a way that i am aware of?

 

[gramboh]

Might want to check some server admin forums, but I'm pretty sure if you are going to host a bunch of 32 person servers you are going to need a much better disk system than a single 500gb 7200rpm.

How many servers/players total? Are you co-locating this at a data centre? There are advantages to just using their pre-built servers if so.

 

[mfenn]

You're better off going with Nehalem, even if you don't utilize hyperthreading.

Check out the E5506 (4C/4T). It's similar in price to your E5410, but a 2.13GHz Nehalem is going to blow away a 2.33GHz Yorkfield. You'll need to swap out your mobo and ram also, but it shouldn't increase the total cost by a terrible amount.

 

[Trizik]

Might want to check some server admin forums, but I'm pretty sure if you are going to host a bunch of 32 person servers you are going to need a much better disk system than a single 500gb 7200rpm.

How many servers/players total? Are you co-locating this at a data centre? There are advantages to just using their pre-built servers if so.

i think you're right about the hard drive, maybe i'll go with a couple 10k rpm drives instead. thanks for the suggestion

8-10 servers, max ~256 players total

yes of course colocating

You're better off going with Nehalem, even if you don't utilize hyperthreading.

Check out the E5506 (4C/4T). It's similar in price to your E5410, but a 2.13GHz Nehalem is going to blow away a 2.33GHz Yorkfield. You'll need to swap out your mobo and ram also, but it shouldn't increase the total cost by a terrible amount.

thanks for the info and recommendation

 

[Trizik]

i'm now looking at a completely different setup, more along the lines of something like this:

1 x Supermicro 1U ATX case with 520W power supply
1 x ASUS Z8NA-D6C Dual LGA 1366 motherboard
2 x Intel E5504 Nehalem 2.0GHz LGA 1366 80W quad core CPU
3 x 2GB DDR3 1333 ECC Unbuffered memory
3 x 1GB DDR3 1333 ECC Unbuffered memory
1 x WD VelociRaptor 150GB 10000 RPM 16 MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" hard drive

does anyone know if there will be any compatibility issues with that ASUS motherboard in that Supermicro case?

i chose unbuffered memory (two triple channel kits totaling 9GB) because i'm trying to save money and the motherboard supports it

do you think that single VelociRaptor would perform better or worse than 2 x 7200 RPM 16 MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s drives? i know 2-3 x 10k rpm drives would be ideal but i'm watching my budget again

opinions?

thanks

 

[Ancalagon44]

Sadly, I think when you are still comparing traditional hard drives to traditional hard drives, the performance difference is going to be small at best. If you really want speed, SSD is the way to go.

I presume you mean 2 x 7200 RPM drives in RAID 0? People say its best to avoid that, but then they do mean for desktop and home users. For a game server, there might actually be a point to it, but its hard to say for sure. And you run a higher risk of data loss. Probably worth going for a dedicated raid controller (ie an addon board) and RAID 5, if you go the RAID route. Thats probably what I'd do.

I'm glad you went with Nehalem over the older architecture - its really a lot faster. Hyperthreading does involve hardware changes, so its not like each thread will get 50% of the core's normal performance. It might work out to something like 60% per thread, so you benefit with hyperthreading as compared to just having a single core and having it run two threads. The reason is hyper threading involves having extra execution and memory resources in a core to accommodate more than one thread at a time, even if its not a whole extra core, it makes a difference. At least, thats as far as I remember.

And yes, Nehalem is much faster than Core 2. Have you looked at any AMD platforms? I doubt they are as energy efficient as Nehalems, but they are usually quite cost effective.

I'd prefer to get 12GB of memory rather than 9, but I suppose thats just because I like all memory in a system to be the same size, the same make if possible. It also would mean that, if you wanted to upgrade your memory later, your only option would be to sell the 3 x 1 GB sticks and buy 3 x 2 GB sticks. Of course, it may be wise to work out how much memory you'll actually need.

 

[Trizik]

i'm also considering SDD but i'm concerned about writes affecting overall performance. the only player writes i can think of are custom "sprays" (images) that appear in the game, which range in size but are never more than 120KB. a spray is uploaded to the server whenever a new player connects and also whenever a cached spray differs from its owner's new spray.

do you think those writes will affect SSD performance even though the file sizes are small? i'm concerned they will because the total number of player slots means there will be frequent spray writes. i'm also concerned about how the writes i do will affect the performance of the other running servers i.e. installing server updates, uploading maps, editing configs, etc.

the 2 x 7200 would probably be RAID 0 but don't have to be. i'm willing to risk data loss to get a little better performance out of the RAID 0 setup

i briefly looked at AMD's options but i'm not really sure what's equivalent to what i need: Harpertown 2.33GHz (and i think Gainestown 2.0GHz). server admins for most of the games i'll be hosting swear the software performs better with Intel than AMD

i'm fairly certain i won't need more than 9GB RAM so it's saving me $100 over the 12GB route and those savings are pretty important at this point

 

[Trizik]

considering this SSD since it seems to be the best bang for the buck: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820139132

 

[mfenn]

i'm also considering SDD but i'm concerned about writes affecting overall performance. the only player writes i can think of are custom "sprays" (images) that appear in the game, which range in size but are never more than 120KB. a spray is uploaded to the server whenever a new player connects and also whenever a cached spray differs from its owner's new spray.

do you think those writes will affect SSD performance even though the file sizes are small? i'm concerned they will because the total number of player slots means there will be frequent spray writes. i'm also concerned about how the writes i do will affect the performance of the other running servers i.e. installing server updates, uploading maps, editing configs, etc.

I wouldn't be concerned with the sprays, or just general server usage degrading the SSD. What I would be concerned about is the server's log files. Depending how verbosely your game servers log to disk, you can be looking at quite a lot of writes.

 

[gramboh]

Yeah log files will be huge for the games you are considering running.

Again, I'd highly advise you to investigate either the source server site http://www.srcds.com/ - 256 players needs a lot of power, CPU, RAM and disk, I would ask on the forums over there what you will need rather than be surprised.