Need opinions for a home raid NAS solution

[Kaido]

I'm planning on wiring the house up with gigabit this summer, or at least 10/100. I'd like to put in a networked file server for doing backups for all of the computers in the house. I'm looking at two options right now:

Thecus N2100 network storage device:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833201001

-Low hassle, ready-to-run system
-Takes up to 400gb hard drives
-Does RAID mirroring
-Has some extra goodies like an FTP and iTunes server built-in
-Decently cheap
-Possibly more reliable than a computer-based system

Home-brew RAID computer

-Runs Linux
-Can take more than 2 drives and any drive capacity
-Does RAID mirroring via a PCI card
-Has any goodies I want (FTP, HTTP, etc.)
-More expensive for a nice solution

I'm used to doing computer-based stuff, but the Thecus box is looking pretty tempting. With 400-gig Seagate drives going for well under $200, I could easily get away with a functioning RAID storage system for under $800. I am a little concern about having an all-in-one device as it would make data retrieval on a failed system a bit more difficult. Both have Gigabit connections, btw. This will just be used on my home networking for doing Ghosts, project backups, file archival, etc.

 

[Madwand1]

If you build your own (and do it reasonably well) you'll almost surely get better performance, drive cooling, and customizability / maintainability. Consumer NAS boxes struggle to give 30 MB/s sustained data transfer even when using RAID, and this can be done with Windows boxes with ease with a single IDE, without considering RAID. This is presumably due to the inexpensive low-performance CPU's included with such boxes compared to desktop CPU's these days.

This you trade off against convenience and cost perhaps. For many people convenience is the motivating factor for cheap NAS boxes.

I see a report of a Thecus box resetting itself and apparently losing all the data. I'm sure this doesn't happen to everyone though.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/network/Thecus-N2100-lost-data-ftopict21442.html

You don't need any PCI cards for a DIY box that you set up yourself -- some MB's have multiple SATA, video, and gigabit built-in. Built-in RAID and software RAID can do mirroring.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Madwand1
If you build your own (and do it reasonably well) you'll almost surely get better performance, drive cooling, and customizability / maintainability. Consumer NAS boxes struggle to give 30 MB/s sustained data transfer even when using RAID, and this can be done with Windows boxes with ease with a single IDE, without considering RAID. This is presumably due to the inexpensive low-performance CPU's included with such boxes compared to desktop CPU's these days.

This you trade off against convenience and cost perhaps. For many people convenience is the motivating factor for cheap NAS boxes.

I see a report of a Thecus box resetting itself and apparently losing all the data. I'm sure this doesn't happen to everyone though.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/network/Thecus-N2100-lost-data-ftopict21442.html

You don't need any PCI cards for a DIY box that you set up yourself -- some MB's have multiple SATA, video, and gigabit built-in. Built-in RAID and software RAID can do mirroring.

Yikes! I haven't done my own linux box in awhile, which distro would you suggest?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Yikes! I haven't done my own linux box in awhile, which distro would you suggest?

To be honest, I haven't had the greatest luck in setup, convenience, and performance with Linux. It's a good fight, and I'll fight some more, but right now, I'm using, you know, an OS that starts with "W". I'm ashamed to admit it.

Someone else should be able to advise you better on Linux. I'd suggest being careful with the hardware and software match -- getting drivers that work and work well can be an issue.

In the "W" world, nVIDIA RAID and networking although politically incorrect, has performed well for me -- sustaining > 70 MB/s file transfer over the network for example, using RAID on both sides.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: Kaido
Yikes! I haven't done my own linux box in awhile, which distro would you suggest?

To be honest, I haven't had the greatest luck in setup, convenience, and performance with Linux. It's a good fight, and I'll fight some more, but right now, I'm using, you know, an OS that starts with "W". I'm ashamed to admit it.

Someone else should be able to advise you better on Linux. I'd suggest being careful with the hardware and software match -- getting drivers that work and work well can be an issue.

In the "W" world, nVIDIA RAID and networking although politically incorrect, has performed well for me -- sustaining > 70 MB/s file transfer over the network for example, using RAID on both sides.

There's nothing wrong with that. Are you using XP? That'd certainly be a more simple solution. Are you just using folder sharing?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Kaido
There's nothing wrong with that. Are you using XP? That'd certainly be a more simple solution. Are you just using folder sharing?

Actually, 2003 x64 (because I have it) and 2000 pro (32-bit of course) on another side. NTFS and file sharing. I personally wouldn't hesitate to set up an XP or 2000 file sharing box.

Seeing that 2000 hasn't given me performance issues compared with 2003 (that I've noticed), I believe that XP can also perform quite well -- with at most some registry tweaks. MS has some docs on improving networking and file server performance.

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by:Madwand1[/b]
In the "W" world, nVIDIA RAID and networking although politically incorrect, has performed well for me -- sustaining > 70 MB/s file transfer over the network for example, using RAID on both sides.

LOL you are undermining the most important principle of our time.

"Being politically correct is more important then proper functionality".

Might be that is a valid point when dealing with Social issues, but importing it to Technology?

Nah! it is a sign of "ignorance" when one is doing so.:shocked:

:sun:

 

[Kaido]

Hmm, I do have a copy of w2k that's been collecting dust for awhile...it wouldn't cost a ton to build a cheapie system, either. 512mb should be more than enough, right? I've heard that AMD is planning price cuts later this month, so that should give me a cheapie Sempron or Duron or whatever the Celeron equivalent is now. What's a good, reliable motherboard with RAID built-in?

 

[Kaido]

Actually building a system looks like it'd be about the same price as the Thecus box ($340):

Antec Sonata with PSU (nice and quiet)
Gig of Corsair ram
CD-ROM drive

I have some spare fans and a 1.5ghz Core Solo chip, so other than that I'd just need a good motherboard with onboard SATA RAID and a HSF for the chip. Am I missing anything? Been awhile since I built a box from scratch

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Yikes! I haven't done my own linux box in awhile, which distro would you suggest?

CentOS or Debian.

 

[cleverhandle]

IMO, you're thinking too much like you're building a desktop. If I were looking for a DIY NAS box (running Linux or BSD), I'd be looking for a fanless VIA board (~$100), a case of suitable proportions and aesthetics ($50-$200, depending on your taste and space), and if I really wanted a quiet device I'd get DC power supply from mini-box.com (~$100). Preferably find a case with an 80mm fan slot (like the Antec Minuet) that you can run undervolted, though even that's probably not strictly necessary if you pick cool-running drives (I have a fanless 1U server I built several years back that does just fine).

That gets you a capable, flexible little box that's probably more silent than the off-the-shelf NAS and gives you a lot more possibilities.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: cleverhandle
IMO, you're thinking too much like you're building a desktop. If I were looking for a DIY NAS box (running Linux or BSD), I'd be looking for a fanless VIA board (~$100), a case of suitable proportions and aesthetics ($50-$200, depending on your taste and space), and if I really wanted a quiet device I'd get DC power supply from mini-box.com (~$100). Preferably find a case with an 80mm fan slot (like the Antec Minuet) that you can run undervolted, though even that's probably not strictly necessary if you pick cool-running drives (I have a fanless 1U server I built several years back that does just fine).

That gets you a capable, flexible little box that's probably more silent than the off-the-shelf NAS and gives you a lot more possibilities.

I'm shoving it in the network closet, so aesthetics aren't too important. Cheap + good = happy

 

[redgren]

Just curious as to what kind of data transfer speeds are you looking for?

Personally, I have the following setup for my nightly backups (<100MB of data) over 100mbit wired connection...
[*]AMD K6-2 400 w/ 368 MB memory (this is way overkill )
[*] a couple of PCI NIC cards
[*]PCI SCSI card & 200GB worth of Drives hanging off (got a crazy good deal on these or I would just use PATA drives)


The whole thing runs linux (debian) and serves up via SAMBA or NFS. In addition, it does double duty as my router AND does QOS routing for my VOIP connection. It's quite the versatile little box and I never even come close to putting 10% load on it.

My point is you don't need to spend more than 100 bucks (+ whatever the drives cost) to get a very capable file server. There are even linux distibutions setup to run NAS right off of a CD or floppy. Naslite comes to mind, though I've never used it.

 

[bolthill]

Take a look at ClarkConnect Linux Distro, it has all the bells & whistles. I especially like the Samba file server & Cups Print server that most Firewall distros don't have.
Also does backups, and runs on any old POS you can piece together...Low power draw, and (almost) any semi-savvy user can install it and configure it. I'm a bit of a Luddite, and i figured it out.

Home edition is free, supports up to 5 users. Ver. 4.0 is due to come out shortly.
http://www.clarkconnect.com/info/compare.php

Internet Gateway
Firewall
VPN
E-mail
Bandwidth and P2P Manager
Intrusion Prevention
Web and FTP Servers
Antispam/Antivirus
Content Filtering
File and Print Services
Data backup
Hardware & Software RAID
More...

 

[nweaver]

yeah, don't shoot yourself in the wallet with windows/desktop build. Hit FS/T and find an older P3 sub 1Ghz. Linux also has the advantage of very good S/W raid/LVM support. Debian does all that in the install. I chained about a dozen 9 GB drives of 2 controllers into a decent, redundent file server.

 

[jlbenedict]

I've recently been looking into doing this as well.

Check out FreeNAS. Its based off of FreeBSD 6. Supports whatever hardware FreeBSD 6 will support, in addition to Software Raid 0, 1 & 5.

 

[Slowlearner]

Purchased a Buffalo Terastation 1.0TB with 4x250 WD sata drives for work and have been using it as a archival/repository server for about one month in a raid 5 config. It was easy to set up and configure (15 minutes), though I did stupidly throw away the keys. Its well made, small and very quiet. Cost 850$ shipped. Takes a while to re-sync if powered down - havent timed it.