Need lots of help with a HTPC.

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ricleo2

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2004
1,122
11
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I am thinking of abandoning DIRECTV. I have suddenly realized that my wife and I only watch local channels which I can get off the air.
I need all the info you can provide me on the subject of HTCP's. I need to build one with DVR functions. I would connect our outdoor antenna to the input of the TV tuner and a HDMI output of the video card to the TV. I have an old av receiver which I would like to still use for sound. The input on it is an optical. I would also be able to use my wireless network to watch other channels off the internet, if possible. I would also like to record on to a VCR for my wife’s soap operas separate from the DVR. If that is not possible, maybe a DVD recorder? Oh and maybe a universal remote?
Could somebody recommend all the hardware and software? Assume I know nothing, which is not far from the truth. Thanks. Forgot to mention, I have a ps3.
 
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The Boston Dangler

The Boston Dangler

Lifer
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
if you want to skip heavy duty gaming on your htpc, then everything else can scale down in price. what's your budget?

do you like windows media center? if so, then your options are really simplified. if not, more options are available with more effort required.
 
P

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
I'm using BeyondTV on Windows XP with a Pentium M 770 processor on an Aopen i915Ga-HFS motherboard and a ATI Radeon 4350-512 (fanless) and a Radeon TV Wonder HD 650 PCI. I have it wired with gigabit ethernet to my router and we have cable internet. It works great - it even has extremely high wife-acceptance-factor although I often hear her say "honey, get the computer working so I can watch <insert show>". I pick up local over-the-air ATSC and looks very good. I can play back Blu-ray on our 36" 720p LCD TV, and it's fine for playing back HD TV shows (like Lost). Netflix streaming works great, Hulu works great. Watching the Colbert Report on Comedy Central's website works great. About the only thing that it tends to choke on is playing back HD while recording HD. So pausing an HD show and then coming back and resuming doesn't work so well. I'll upgrade the CPU+motherboard one of these days... I have it set to turn off at 1am and then power itself back up at 4pm to save money too and it's alwasy reliable. It's the automatic back up machine for my desktop and my wife's laptop too...

A co-worker did his with Windows 7 Home Premium and a Asus Ion Atom motherboard and a TV Wonder 650 PCI and he seems very happy with his too. He's using the Microsoft Media Center for his DVR He said if he had to do it again, he wouldn't change anything.a

We are both using the remote that came with the TV Wonder 650 PCI.
 
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B

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,046
4
81
If I was building something today, I'd look at an i530 on an H55 chipset, plus an HDhomerun (or two!) for the off-air HD duties. You shouldn't need any internal cards like video or sound since the motherboard has everything you need onboard.

Windows7 or Vista (most versions) will give you Media Center for the software portion. Add a microsoft media center remote and you're done.
 
The Boston Dangler

The Boston Dangler

Lifer
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
i just started using beyondtv, thanks pm. i have a hauppauge 2250 bundled with wintv7 and an mce remote/blaster. wintv7 is absolutely dreadful (can't even use both tuners) and the remote app and hardware are a joke.

beyondtv is the best looking GUI and likely the best working pvr/tv program i've used. channel mapping and the guide are excellent. it still took quite a bit of tweaking to get things working well, but i think the end result is worth it. beyondtv doesn't have a setup for imon remotes, so i've made an imon profile mapped to the keyboard commands. my harmony is mapped to mimic the imon remote plus a few custom buttons. i think SD and HD pic quality could be better, and with all defaults performance was all screwed up. i think at least one of the overlay settings is mis-labeled.

silverstone gd-02
gigabyte p55m-ud4
intel i5 750, 4 gb ram
gigabyte gtx 275
on-board realtec w/ DDL
hauppauge hvr-2250 w/ digital cable
antec ez usb remote
win7 64, mpc-hc, foobar, vlc
 
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BTRY B 529th FA BN

BTRY B 529th FA BN

Lifer
Nov 26, 2005
15,194
403
126
Have you compared Beyond TV with Windows Media Center? I am thinking really hard on getting started on something like this. I think my next purchase is a HD TV Tuner.

How is "Life Extender" as a plug-in for WMC? Has anyone tried it with Win7?
 
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B

Binky

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,046
4
81
LifeExtender is not compatible with Windows7 TV files (or Vista with TV pack). For commercial skipping in Windows7 or SageTV, you can use DVRMStoolbox and showanalyzer.
 
P

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
BeyondTV has a commercial skipper - although it's accuracy isn't perfect.

Glad to hear you like my suggestion, Boston. :) I've been using it for years and it's been great.

I've tried Windows 7 Home Premium Media Center. I liked BeyondTV better - but that might be just because I'm more used to it. BeyondTV required a bit more tweaking (I had remote issues too, and my channel lineup didn't totally map... I have a big antenna), while Win7 MC worked straight away and mapped my channels perfectly. But on the other hands Win7 files weren't compressed as much as BeyondTV, it doesn't skip commercials (that I could see) it doesn't seem anywhere near as configurable, and BeyondTV on WinXP runs hands down better on my rather old (but low power) HTPC than Win7 MC did.. even just Win7 MC's logo thing on start up stuttererd.
 
Modelworks

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
pm said:
But on the other hands Win7 files weren't compressed as much as BeyondTV, it doesn't skip commercials (that I could see) it doesn't seem anywhere near as configurable, and BeyondTV on WinXP runs hands down better on my rather old (but low power) HTPC than Win7 MC did.. even just Win7 MC's logo thing on start up stuttererd.
Click to expand...

Check out www.hack7mc.com
Lots of things can be done to improve Win7 MC.
 
Zaap

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
I've been using BTV for about six years- I highly recommend it. Currently running on Win7 x32- just as stable as XP was. (You may have problems with x64 versions of Windows though.)

W.A.F. is very high; my wife has no problem recording and playing back her shows. We have several HTPCs and 3 licenses of BTV (really not needed depending on your setup, as BTV can use multiple tuners simultaneously on the same system, but we have several HTPC setups/Sat boxes spread around the house). BTV seamlessly plays back shows from any of the systems in the house over the network, so it doesn't matter in what room a show was recorded.

Com skip: as said, not the most accurate, but I find it invaluable. It produces white-out areas on a recording's timeline that allow you to know pretty accurately where the commercials are, and skip right past them with 2 or 3 taps of the remote.

As for remotes: I highly recommend the Gyration Media Center remote. Yes, it's a little pricey, but it controls everything (PC, TV, receiver, etc.) and in my use has the most logical PC-control as it operates like an air-mouse. It works fine in MC of course, but also, perfectly with BTV as well.

We currently use WMC also to play back our movies and music. It plays perfectly well with BTV so long as you disable the WMC scheduling service and don't try and also use it for TV. BTV can even be made to launch directly from the WMC interface, so it can function as the overall 10ft interface.

BTV records in standard MPEG-2 format, so it's very easy to burn the recorded shows to DVD. There's a built-in 'burn to DVD plug-in' you can buy, or use third-party software. I prefer Roxio My DVD (used to be Sonic) because it doesn't insist on re-encoding the files which are already DVD-ready, so the process only takes a few minutes, rather than hours to needlessly re-encode. [EDIT: actually this is true only for NTSC sources- for ATSC, it's not as these are transport stream files and must be re-encoded for DVD.]

BTV will also automatically re-encode shows to iPhone/iTunes or WMA formats if you want shows that way- very handy for some shows I like to take with me. The options for all these things are the best of any TV software I've used.

Add in Hulu Desktop, Boxee and Netflix online and you'll hardly need anything else to watch.

You should be able to split an antennae signal and run it to multiple sources at the same time. If you split the signal enough to see quality degrade, you can always use a signal-amp.

For HDMI into the TV, keep in mind you don't have to use a video card with an HDMI port- you can buy a DVI to HDMI cable from somewhere like monoprice, and then use any video card with DVI. Since you'll be running separate optical sound, it's the same video signal anyway.

Make sure the board you choose has optical audio out, or a bracket to add it.

For tuner: if you can use wired ethernet rather than wireless, I highly recommend the Silicon Dust HDHomerun network tuner. I messed with a few PCI ATSC cards before getting our (dual tuner) HDHR and I'd never go back. The HDHR is just set-it-and-forget-it simple, and it pumps out HDTV to any wired computer on the network. (If you're wireless-only, then forget it, it only works wired.)

Also, don't forget a good wireless HTPC keyboard: I can't recommend enough, stick with RF (no line of sight required) not IR. A good built-in trackball, joystick, or gyro function is a must- then you can easily forego a standard remote.

They're expensive, but the Cideko Air Keyboard looks really good, as it combines all the best elements: RF, small size, PC and Mac compat, keyboard and gyro-air mouse in one device.
 
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Zaap

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Sheesh, sorry for the long post, clearly I love all things HTPC.

I forgot to mention that BTV also lets you hibernate the machine when you're finished using it. It will wake the machine to tape a show, then hibernate again after- depending on the time set after inactivity. So basically, as long as you choose hardware that supports hibernation, you can have a system that's 'always on standby' yet not burning through power all the time. I believe WMC does the same, but I'm not 100&#37; certain.
 
M

MadScientist

Platinum Member
Jul 15, 2001
2,183
63
91
Zaap said:
Also, don't forget a good wireless HTPC keyboard: I can't recommend enough, stick with RF (no line of sight required) not IR. A good built-in trackball, joystick, or gyro function is a must- then you can easily forego a standard remote.

They're expensive, but the Cideko Air Keyboard looks really good, as it combines all the best elements: RF, small size, PC and Mac compat, keyboard and gyro-air mouse in one device.
Click to expand...

I've been looking for a small wireless keyboard/trackball/touchpad combo to finish off my HTPC build. I've considered the Cideko Air Keyboard but $90. is a bit pricey. Too bad a b&m store doesn't carry them, I'd like to try the gyro-air mouse part of it out first. Does anyone here have one? Opinions?

There was a thread here that discussed a few: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2037526

Others I've considered:
IOGear GKM561R keyboard/trackball $47.24 shipped, but a bit large at 14 x 6.5 x 1.5 inches
http://www.buy.com/prod/iogear-2-4ghz-multimedia-keyboard-with-laser-trackball-and-scroll-wheel/q/loc/101/211449589.html
http://www.amazon.com/Multimedia-Keyboard-Trackball-Wireless-GKM561R/dp/B002H0BOBA

Lenovo Multimedia Remote keyboard/trackball $60.+ shipping, but Lenovo frequently runs coupon specials that brings it down to $35.-$42. shipped http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/integration.workflow:productDisplayItem?IsBundle=false&GroupID=38&Code=57Y6336&OID=:00000026:00002D64:&cid=pg_57Y6336&

EFO Keyboard/Remote/Touchpad $45. shipped, not the most elegant but gets good reviews. http://efo.buy-lowest.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=77&products_id=180

Logitech diNovo Mini $120. shipped, pricey, good reviews except for the touchpad. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0011FOOI2/ref=nosim/7240428-20

Vidabox Keyboard/Trackball $63. + $11.49 shipping to me, at 12.83" x 5.04" x .97" small enough http://www.vidabox.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=10&zenid=0d9cd3fe088797a1c6744cb035d1fa38
 
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The Boston Dangler

The Boston Dangler

Lifer
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
i use the full size dinovo. i think it's biggest shortcoming is the touchpad. if i were buying now, i'd get the enermax aurora micro wireless. i had a wired aurora and it the best key action of any board i've used. the micro has a trackball and left/right/wheel buttons, which frankly kick the dinovo's ass.
 
M

MadScientist

Platinum Member
Jul 15, 2001
2,183
63
91
The Boston Dangler said:
i use the full size dinovo. i think it's biggest shortcoming is the touchpad. if i were buying now, i'd get the enermax aurora micro wireless. i had a wired aurora and it the best key action of any board i've used. the micro has a trackball and left/right/wheel buttons, which frankly kick the dinovo's ass.
Click to expand...

This looks like a rebadged IOGear GKM561R in an upgraded case for ~$80., L 12.56&#8221; x W 7.60&#8221; x H 1.30&#8221;.
 
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Aikouka

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I use a Logitech diNovo Mini for my HTPC and it works fairly well. You have to install setpoint, but it's Bluetooth, which is great if you have a large span in your living room like I do (14-15 feet from TV).

EDIT:

Only con is that it's fairly pricey... around $120.
 
manimal

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Binky said:
If I was building something today, I'd look at an i530 on an H55 chipset, plus an HDhomerun (or two!) for the off-air HD duties. You shouldn't need any internal cards like video or sound since the motherboard has everything you need onboard.

Windows7 or Vista (most versions) will give you Media Center for the software portion. Add a microsoft media center remote and you're done.
Click to expand...

sprinkle in some codecs if you want to play some files as well. I use the shark codecs and absolutely LOVE media browser. I have ripped my entire DVD and BD library to my server and love not having to go down to the basement and grab a dvd. I am a little crazy though and own 900+ dvds and over 150 BD disks.
 
Zaap

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
This site has a pretty nice selection of HTPC keyboards.

MadScientist, that Lenovo Multimedia remote looks really interesting- first time I've seen those.
 
M

MadScientist

Platinum Member
Jul 15, 2001
2,183
63
91
Zapp,
The Zippy RF-666 on ergogeeks is another rebadged IOGear GKM561R.
There's a coupon code for the Lenovo keyboard/trackball that brings the price down to $47.99 shipped. http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/lenovo-multimedia-remote-with-keyboard/17822.aspx

Update 4/29: new coupon code out that brings it down to $36. shipped., same link, expires May 4 or after 500 uses.

Just ordered one, total was $38.15 with tax, shipped.
 
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