Need legal advice!! I hit a bicyclist (no major damages/injuries)

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
Details of the incident:
Both the bicyclist and I were moving in the same direction on a two way street. He was in a bicycle lane. I passed him, and a little bit up the road I made a right turn into a driveway (I did signal). In the process of making the turn, the bicyclist collides into the front right panel of my car. In making the turn I was really under the impression that the bicyclist was nowhere near me - I guess I underestimated his speed.

After the collision, I stopped my car, apologized, and drove him to his house. (The front right tire was crooked, and he wouldn't have been able to get anywhere.) In the car we agreed that we were both at "fault" - he was in my blind spot, and he didn't catch my signal. In the car we agreed to split the damages. Just today I get this email from him:

<< I don't believe that I sustained any serious injuries from the crash on Friday (fortunate for both of us). The replacement cost of my wheel is going to add up to as much as $140 in addition to the damage to my handlebars which will contribute another 50 or so along with 20 for the handlebar tape. It is on sound legal advice, that the driver in this case bears all of the financial and legal responsibility. Cyclists and pedestrians always have the right of way; additionally if someone is to make a right turn (without slowing down) into a cyclist who's path remains the same it is clearly the driver who is at fault. As we were not at an intersection and as I was in bike lane I was observing all traffic laws by continuing forward. In making a blind right turn at speed at class change you clearly were not obeying traffic laws. Insurance may cover these costs if we fill out and accident report, or you can personally take responsibility for them. >>

I want to know if his statements are correct. At first, his jargon had me fooled, but as I recalled the incident, and also as I began to read some traffic laws, I began to think that maybe he was at fault. As per his statement that cyclists and pedestrians always have the right of way, I definitely disagree. I've been thoroughly dissecting the New York Traffic Laws and the Right of Way Laws don't mention anything about cyclists always having the right of way. There is also no mention of who has the right of way when making a right into a driveway that helps, only this:

<< Required position for turning at alley, driveway, private road or onto property off the roadway. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn from a roadway into an alley, driveway, private road or onto property off the roadway, shall approach the turn as follows: (a) Right turns. The approach for a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. >>

The closest thing that I found to be relevant to the situation is Section 1146:

<< S 1146. Drivers to exercise due care. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law to the contrary, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, pedestrian or domestic animal upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary. >>

I believe that, in signaling, I was exercising due care. He also claimed that I made the turn without slowing down. Firstly, I don't know whether he has a radar gun embedded in his bicyclist helmet, but how in the hell does he know whether or not I slowed down? Secondly, the turn into the driveway is fairly narrow, I had to have slowed down to at least 15mph to make a safe turn. And what exactly is a "blind right turn" and what does it have to do with this specific situation?

Finally, I didn't realize it at the time, but he did cause some damage to the car. Little scratches and a small dent. Does the fact that he agreed to split the damages affect the situation at all?
Also, just a little tidbit from my school's bike safety tips:

<< Make eye contact with motorists. Motorists often find it difficult to see bicyclists. Never assume they see you. If you're in doubt of a motorist's intentions, be prepared to yield. >>

 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
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Cyclists do NOT have right of way. Pedestrians do, but bicyclists do NOT. However, it's not illegal to drive in your bl9ind spot, even if it's annoying, and you did turn into him. I'd say that it's your fault, as you cut in front of him, causing the accident. You should check your blind spot better.
 

Atrail

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2001
4,326
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I would take him up on the offer and pay for half of his damages and be nice to the guy.
This has potential to turn into an ugly situation, but if the biker is cool then everything should go OK.
Pay Him!
 

Brutuskend

Lifer
Apr 2, 2001
26,558
4
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Well as to legal advice I can't offer you much. But as a cyclist I can say BE CAREFULL!

Having said that.

Seeing as how I manage a Bike shop, $140 for a from wheel seems a bit out of line. If the rim is toast about the most one would expect to pay for a new rim is about $70 + $25-$30 to have it laced up to his old hub.

Be glad you didn't hurt him or bend the bike frame though. Usually if someone brings a bike in my shop thats been hit and the frame is bent, I call it a total. (unless it's a VERY VERY high end bike)

Good luck, hope you don't get spanked too hard.

In Oregon, it's almost ALLWAYS the drivers fault.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
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Looks like originally they DID agree to split the damage, but then the cyclist suddenly decided he wanted the otehr guy to claim full responsibility.
Go see a lawyer.
 

Kilrsat

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,072
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The best thing you could have done was waited at the scene of the accident and hoped that he would take off. Here in WI (not sure about NY) if any party leaves the scene of the accident all other ideas of "fault" are left out of the equation. (It gets interesting when parties that wouldn't normally be at fault get picked up for hit and run.) But since you both left the scene, there goes that idea.

First thing I can think of is that cyclists do not always have the right of way (Been in an incident or two on a bike, learned the hard way.)

Second thing is another thought, how far into your turn were you when you two made contact? What I mean by this is that if you signaled, started your turn, were well into your turn, and the cyclist just ran into you at that point, while he had plenty of opportunity to slow down or avoid you, then it may not completely be your fault. (This gets into the technical defintion of "right of way" being that you never have the right of way until it has been yielded to you by other traffic.)

General run down, you both left the scene of an accident, any reports filed now will be of questionable quality as there's been plenty of time to alter time/change stories to fit your need.

If you're worried, contact some form of a lawyer and see if you can get any free advice from a professional
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
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I ALWAYS check my blind spot, but one thing is checking my blind spot for a 2 ton, 9 foot long car and another is checking my blind spot for a cyclist. Also, I'm making a right hand turn at a relatively slow speed. Let's say it takes me five seconds to slow down and complete a turn after I check my blind spot - by that time he's already on top of me.


<< I would take him up on the offer and pay for half of his damages and be nice to the guy. >>

I was really nice to the guy! But I'm a college kid and $200 isn't pocket change! Besides, he was being a prick to me, and he lives on one of the richest fraternies on campus :| Let's not forget that he screwed up my car! (Well, actually it's my girlfriend's)
Doesn't the fact that he agreed to pay half the damages come into affect at all?
 

Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
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Hm, if this went to court you might have some ground to stand on, but not much at all. And if you lose it goes on your record and your insurance goes up and you still have to pay his costs, except now they might include his legal costs.
If he had a pretty nice bike, then his cost estimates aren't that far off, you might be able to haggle with him a little bit, point out that there was damage to your car too and that you have to pay for that. Remind him that you agreed to split the cost, but you would be willing to pay for most of hist costs if not all.

Remind him that bicycles have to follow all the same rules that cars do, and one of the rules is that you are supposed to be in complete control of your vehicle at all times. If he actually hit you because you turned into his lane, he's partially at fault (I'd say 30%) for not being able to stop in time.
If it comes down to it though, just pay the man, but make sure you get something in writing or you might find yourself dishing out a couple hundred and still getting slapped with a lawsuit.
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
As for the turn, my rear tire crossed the bike path before the collision had taken place. Something hit the rear passenger doors (maybe his leg?!?) and then his handlebars and tire hit, scratched, and dented, my front right panel.
 

Kilrsat

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,072
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If your rear tires made it into the bike lane before the collision, it sounds more like he hit you, and he's at fault for not being in enough control to slow down/avoid the incident.

Just because its Car vs. Bike doesn't always mean the car hits the bike.
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
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From the description, if a witness had been present, you weould have been 100% liable. Not to mention, lots of people would have taken the opportunity to fake injury (and he is certain to be at least sore). I'd pay the $$$ and be glad (hope?) he does not sue you.
 

freebee

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 2000
4,043
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First of all do not pay the guy without consulting with a lawyer. Look at the manner in which he writes...."i do not believe..etc, etc." He just might wake up tomorrow and decides he has a painful neck injury...right after you pay him.

Nothing wrong with the actual payment for damages, however, just make sure that once the payment is over, the situation is settled. You do not want your payment to be coming back later as a confession of guilt.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
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Personally I think that:

1) He was an a-hole to commit to it being equal fault and then coming back with this story after getting legal advice; he should not have made this statement in the first place.

2) You are legally at fault. You were both going and you cut him off. It's really quite plain to me. I almost saw a cab driver kill a guy on a bike pulling the same trick once. I'm not really blaming you for it, because it could happen to all of us and, being a bicyclist, I know what it's like in traffic so when I drive I try to avoid it but I still think that legally it is your fault.

Basically picture two lanes and they both are going straight and you're in a left lane and you turn into your driveway on the right. You signal but fail to notice the car in the right lane, which then proceeds to slam into you. This is what happened here.

Last year I had a very similar thing happen while I was driving and a bus entered my lane. I got the repair bill covered.
 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
81
He says " I don't believe that I sustained any serious injuries from the crash on Friday......... "

I would bet that belief is subject to change if you dont cough up some dough.

You basically turned in front of him, you stated that you had passed him. You should have been aware after passing him of his whereabouts, you werent, you grossly underestimated his speed. He is going to argue that you werent devoting full time and attention, not even looking back for him, after just passing him, to see where he was before you turned across his path. Dont you wish you had him on tape admitting partial guiilt.........you should have your g/f's car bugged anyway, she could be cheating on you. :p

I'm not trying to rag on you, thats just the first impression I got after reading it.



<< After the collision, I stopped my car, apologized, and drove him to his house >>



In the future, dont apologize for ANYTHING at the scene of an accident. It doesnt matter if there are 30 4 year old Catholic schoolgirls dangling Carmageddon style off your front bumper, dont apologize at the scene in front of ANYONE. You can make your peace w/ God for killing the Catholic shchoolgirls at a later date. Keep Your Mouth Shut.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Oh while you're at it if you decide to pay damages, which is probably the best thing to do, make him first sign a document totally disowning you from any other liability at all. You don't want to pay and him come back later whining. The nicer you are the more likely he is to not be an ass and he'll just get your $200, sign the document and everything is dandy.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
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Look, don't take anyones legal advice on here. What you need to do ASAP is contact your insurance company and give a total and acurate statement to them. They will determine who is at fault and if they believe it is him they won't pay a dime and your insurance rates don't go up. Simple, clean and efficient.
 

dejablue

Member
Jul 10, 2001
28
0
0
if you do pay him.....no matter how much...be sure and get a notarized release. otherwise he'll be on you like a shadow for everything that goes wrong with his bike for the next decade !!!!
 

bunker

Lifer
Apr 23, 2001
10,572
0
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<< Look, don't take anyones legal advice on here. What you need to do ASAP is contact your insurance company and give a total and acurate statement to them. They will determine who is at fault and if they believe it is him they won't pay a dime and your insurance rates don't go up. Simple, clean and efficient. >>


What he said.
 

Bluzjamer

Senior member
Oct 25, 2001
299
0
0
Hey...save some of that money for a large Jar of Vasalene. You going to need it. Been there and done this.
Your F__ked!
Playin da Bluz!
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
4,359
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After the collision, I stopped my car, apologized.

big mistake. Never apologize, that's an admission of fault.
 

yakko

Lifer
Apr 18, 2000
25,455
2
0


<< Seeing as how I manage a Bike shop, $140 for a from wheel seems a bit out of line. If the rim is toast about the most one would expect to pay for a new rim is about $70 + $25-$30 to have it laced up to his old hub. >>

$140 sounds perfectly fine depending on the wheel that the bike is equipped with. Also he may be getting new spokes because the ones on the wheel were tweaked beyond usability.
 

Kilrsat

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,072
0
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Seeking actual legal advice is still the best way to go, but I'll just rattle off a few more thoughts from some of my bike incidents in the past.

Let's pretend you made a slower than average turn. What this means is that you signaled, checked (and had plenty of room) then continued with your turn.

In this situation, the cyclist could have increased his speed to force the contact (guy looking for some "easy" money.)

Or perhaps he wasn't looking straight ahead the whole time, and he looked a head, saw you turning, and then focused his attention somewhere else. Could have been he was checking his tire, admiring his new shoes, looking at a hot chick on the sidewalk, or even looking behind him to check other traffic (checking to see if he can go into traffic behind your car so as to avoid you.) Consequently in his lack of attention he slams into your car.

Now in either of these situations, you were making a legal turn, and it was the cyclist making some sort of adjustment or simple not paying attention that caused the accident. Remember that the only two witnesses to this accident were you and the cyclist, were you watching exactly what he was doing? Probably not. Would he admit if his attention was elsewhere or if he intentionally forced the accident? Of course not!

The case comes down to your story vs. his story and whatever sounds more plausible. If the contact was initiated on the rear portion of your vehicle, a slow turn starts to be conceivable. Now its a case of the facts are evenly distributed, stories are fairly well matched, and everything is just as likely. Very hard to assign fault to this case.

I've been the cyclist, I've been hit from some pretty funky angles, and I've taken my share of "fault" in accidents (I've only been in accidents on bikes, never in a vehicle, maybe I should stop riding in the city...) Personally, I'd go get myself a lawyer, and see how valid his claims are, see if there's a chance this isn't as clear cut as he thinks it is. If it is, go back to your original split the cost plan, since you both have representation, he should be more likely to accept that offer again. Worst case would be pay his full repair bills as long as he signs all waivers saying you bare no responsibility. If he's not willing to deal, take your representation to court with you and take your chances (unless its deemed you have no chance, in which case, work out your costs if you have to assume absolute legal fault, and try to keep the costs of any deal you work out under that.)

Basically, don't give in to this guys claims until you've checked out your best possible defense (which might just happen to be offense in this case.)
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
well, about the apologies, i never expicitly stated "I apologize for hitting you." I could just as easily been apologizing for him..."I'm sorry [that you hit me]..."
also, he did some apologizing himself...