Need legal advice - Baldurs Gate II Disc

[KaOTiK]

I said copyright infringement is a crime. He can get a copy as fair use therefore not a crime.

I'm pretty sure, he can copy his and it is fair use, but to acquire a copy from another source isn't.

If I'm wrong, fine, but neither one of us are proving anything it seems without digging into laws.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I'm pretty sure, he can copy his and it is fair use, but to acquire a copy from another source isn't.

I'd agree with this. Copying the whole work from another source would interfere with the author's ability to exploit the market for replacements.

There is a specific exemption for computer programs that may limit his right, but I don't see it falling under fair use, which applies to all genres.

If I buy a book and then my dog chews it up, I can't go to the library and photocopy their copy under fair use. The copyright holder still retains the right to distribution.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Who cares if it's legal? In the end, the only thing stopping you from pirating ANYTHING IS morality. And morally, you're in the clear.

 

[Larries]

I'd agree with this. Copying the whole work from another source would interfere with the author's ability to exploit the market for replacements.

There is a specific exemption for computer programs that may limit his right, but I don't see it falling under fair use, which applies to all genres.

If I buy a book and then my dog chews it up, I can't go to the library and photocopy their copy under fair use. The copyright holder still retains the right to distribution.

The EULA says they are selling you the license. In this case, whats wrong if he gets the copy from other sources, because he already has the license?

If the EULA says they are selling you the physical copy (the media), then why they are so objected with people reselling their games (and claim they only sell the license)?

 

[T101]

I wouldn't discount what stahlhart advised above as that method works surprisingly well and requires little effort. The only time I wasn't able to save my own scratched up media was when the scratch was nearly to the printed side.

And as I said, the scratch is ON the printed side...

 

[shingletingle]

The table I bought at a furniture store got a scratch in it. Now it's ruined. I'm going back to the store to grab another one for free since I already paid for the other one.

 

[paperfist]

I said copyright infringement is a crime. He can get a copy as fair use therefore not a crime.

But the source of the download is not legal so how can getting it from there be?

 

[T101]

I agree that making a digital copy is not the same as stealing a physical copy. Someone put a lot of effort into making that table. That work needs to be paid for. Making a copy is a minimum effort, and the original is still there. But it does not make it entirely right either to make a copy. Since the initial effort to create the software is equal to that of any other physical product. And I would like the discussion on that topic about stealing vs piracy to end. Because that is not what this is about.

Software usually are licenses. You buy a license for example to use Windows. Does it make it wrong to download a copy of windows and then install with that license key you have? You still have paid for the use of the product. Same with any game that use cd keys to activate. Have you not proof of your license to use it through the cd key? Especially since many game companies want you to verify your license by showing them your cd key to know you have a valid license.

 

[Soundmanred]

Like another postwer sdaid, if you are torrenting it, you are also uploading it while you're downloading it and that's where the illegality comes into play.
(Basically someone else is illegally downloading parts of the game from you while you are downloading the game.)
Morally, not a problem. Legally, not so much. Although chances you will get into trouble for doing so are very slim.

 

[Absolution75]

Example:

Microsoft lets you download Windows from many many places without needing an actual license - they don't care until you try to activate it.

Your license is the box and physical material that came with the original copy. If you downloaded it from someone else, your copy will be bit for bit the same as your original and you still have your license.

In other words, its semantics. The end result is that you have a perfect copy of the game which you paid for - and indeed still the 'license'. The medium of which it reached your hard drive is irrelevant (IDE/SATA bus from your CD drive or the PCI-E bus from the internet).



Seriously who cares though, there are worse things you could do, ex actually pirate the game. Oh, as others have pointed out - yes, if you torrent and upload - that is still illegal. However, if you just download it from an HTTP site somewhere, meh, not so much.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Like another postwer sdaid, if you are torrenting it, you are also uploading it while you're downloading it and that's where the illegality comes into play.
(Basically someone else is illegally downloading parts of the game from you while you are downloading the game.)
Morally, not a problem. Legally, not so much. Although chances you will get into trouble for doing so are very slim.

You've missed something in this post. You missed the fact that the person he is downloading from has no legal right to redistribute the software they are torrent'ing. "Fair Use" only entitles an individual to make backups of their software, movies, cd's, etc but it does not entitle an individual to make copies for redistribution to others be it freely or for money.

 

[zinfamous]

The scratch is on the side where the thin layer on which the data is stored, so there is no chance of recovery. Thank you for the tips on GoG, I think I will buy a copy there.

Still. It is interesting to actually find out what constitutes "fair use" when it comes to computer software. Especially if you have the cd key for the game.

Have you tried boiling the disc? Sounds weird, I know, but it's worth a shot. I've tried this with DVDs before and achieved mixed results. If you're replacing it anyway, can't hurt to try.

I assume this works with CDs, as well....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pWNW2guTQ8

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/447554-i-told-ebay-customer-mine-boil-dvd.html

 

[zinfamous]

must i remind you...

that is one of the most idiotic things I have seen. Thieves trying to redefine a 400 year-old term to excuse their own thievery.

lulz.

 

[Arglebargle]

Actually, it seems much closer to counterfeiting than theft. You know, people printing up money instead of just the government doing it; rather than robbing the money from somewhere.

Splitting hairs possibly, if you don't think words and meaning are important.

I find the 'license' argument fairly compelling. The companies just want to have their cake and eat it too. You can see some of the download services moving to this model, as you can redownload stuff if you need to.

Moving to an easily copyable, non destructive medium, leads to new issues. In the past, in the music realm, you replaced records or tapes because their use degraded the medium. Amongst serious afficianados it was quite common to make a tape copy of your record when you first got it, and then just listen to the tape version, so as not to mess up the original.

The various industries sorta got hooked on reselling their content in new mediums. But the genie is out of the bottle.

 

[Soundmanred]

You've missed something in this post. You missed the fact that the person he is downloading from has no legal right to redistribute the software they are torrent'ing.

I figured that was a given.

 

[T101]

That is as said, a given point.

 

[ibex333]

Jesus Christ.... I cannot believe you'd make such a post OP. Gawd.... Just download the damn thing. Legal shmeagal... Who cares?

Yeah I agree that overall piracy is not a very good thing. But we are talking about a $5-10 game here. Besides you already own a copy, which makes it legal in my eyes.

Oh and this one:

Is pure WIN. 100% agreed.
Not retarded at all. Very true.


PURELY IMHO: If piracy is so bad, such a horrible crime, and so damaging to the game makers, how come the game industry is BOOMING?! How come there are new games coming out all the time both for PCs and Consoles? Which are both being pirated by the way... And no, it is NOT harder to pirate games on consoles compared to PCs. Maybe only a little.

Clearly piracy is not as bad as many people say it is. Yes, we lost many good game companies due to piracy. But we got many more NEW game companies which are doing just fine despite piracy! The way I see it, if piracy was really as bad as people say it is, the game industry would SHUT DOWN. Period. Clearly there are still huge profits in this field, and thousands if not millions of people aspire to become game makers. If that's the case, piracy is not doing enough damage.

Also, lets not forget that where piracy does damage, it also does good. It's free advertisement. Having downloaded and tried the game, many people feel guilty, knowing how they got a game for free which was actually good enough to buy and say thanks to those that made it. At that point they buy a copy, and everything balances itself out.

For example, the makers of Shogun Total War admit that they sold BY FAR more copies of the game in 10 years past it's release than in the 1st year. Why is that one may ask. Because many did not want to pay $40 when the game came out so they.. *gasp* pirated it. In subsequent years, when the price fell to $10-20 many of these same people+newcomers into the genre bought the game to enjoy multiplayer and own they own shiny, official copy. Ultimately the company got high profits.

If this was NOT the case, we'd never see other Total War games.

 

[Aikouka]

I'm pretty certain that what you want to do is legal.

Now, what you do have to consider, is if you download this from a torrent, you will be uploading to other people who may not own the game. In this case, you are assisting in the digital theft of the game (if they crack it, etc).

 

[KaOTiK]

Jesus Christ.... I cannot believe you'd make such a post OP. Gawd.... Just download the damn thing. Legal shmeagal... Who cares?

Yeah I agree that overall piracy is not a very good thing. But we are talking about a $5-10 game here. Besides you already own a copy, which makes it legal in my eyes.

Oh and this one:

Is pure WIN. 100% agreed.
Not retarded at all. Very true.


PURELY IMHO: If piracy is so bad, such a horrible crime, and so damaging to the game makers, how come the game industry is BOOMING?! How come there are new games coming out all the time both for PCs and Consoles? Which are both being pirated by the way... And no, it is NOT harder to pirate games on consoles compared to PCs. Maybe only a little.

Clearly piracy is not as bad as many people say it is. Yes, we lost many good game companies due to piracy. But we got many more NEW game companies which are doing just fine despite piracy! The way I see it, if piracy was really as bad as people say it is, the game industry would SHUT DOWN. Period. Clearly there are still huge profits in this field, and thousands if not millions of people aspire to become game makers. If that's the case, piracy is not doing enough damage.

Also, lets not forget that where piracy does damage, it also does good. It's free advertisement. Having downloaded and tried the game, many people feel guilty, knowing how they got a game for free which was actually good enough to buy and say thanks to those that made it. At that point they buy a copy, and everything balances itself out.

For example, the makers of Shogun Total War admit that they sold BY FAR more copies of the game in 10 years past it's release than in the 1st year. Why is that one may ask. Because many did not want to pay $40 when the game came out so they.. *gasp* pirated it. In subsequent years, when the price fell to $10-20 many of these same people+newcomers into the genre bought the game to enjoy multiplayer and own they own shiny, official copy. Ultimately the company got high profits.

If this was NOT the case, we'd never see other Total War games.

So basically as long as the industry is doing well, it is ok to steal according to you.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's not theft, that's why they don't charge you with that in court. That's not to say the courts are ok with it.

Either they charge you for a licence to use the software and therefore it dosnt matter where you get it from (indeed they should provide you with a replacement disk).
Or you own the software and you should be able to modify it ad you want.

They need to specify what rules they want to play by.

 

[videogames101]

that is one of the most idiotic things I have seen. Thieves trying to redefine a 400 year-old term to excuse their own thievery.

lulz.

No, actually. The legal term theft and the legal term copyright infringement are completely different, which the picture illustrates. It is not trying to say it's legal, it's pointing out the difference between the terms, and thereby the actions.

 

[Soundmanred]

No, actually. The legal term theft and the legal term copyright infringement are completely different, which the picture illustrates. It is not trying to say it's legal, it's pointing out the difference between the terms, and thereby the actions.

True, it's similar to the way the terms manslaughter and murder both mean killing someone, just in different ways or with different motives.
It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

It probably is, but so what? Just download and call it a day.

 

[shingletingle]

So basically as long as the industry is doing well, it is ok to steal according to you.

Yeah, that guy is a complete idiot.

 

[ibex333]

So basically as long as the industry is doing well, it is ok to steal according to you.

No, I didn't really say that. I am trying to say that I just dont see what the big deal is. I do see a problem with it, the problem is there, but it is not a significant enough problem to scream about it and call people with differing opinions idiots and retards.

I am merely offering a different look on this issue. A devil's advocate, if you will?