Need high quality digital camera

Soccerman06

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Jul 29, 2004
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I already have a few Canon lenses ($300-$1000) from my fathers 5 year old dslr which is sadly not high enough quality for high res photoshop images (6 mp camera). I'm working with extremely high resolution and quality images but don't have a large budget, and since I know nothing of cameras, I figured this would be the best place to ask.

I'm not sure if there's other specifications to offer other than price range is up to $500, maybe more if quality warrants it.
 

jpeyton

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Since you already have Canon lenses, and your budget is ~$500 for a body, get a Rebel XSi.

12MP will give you plenty of resolution to work with.

The best online prices for an XSi body are around $550-ish.

If 10MP is enough, get a Rebel XS.
 

Soccerman06

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Jul 29, 2004
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Honestly, I'm not sure how much I do need, what would be my next step up above that that you would recommend?
 

jpeyton

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The next step up is the Canon 40D, but it isn't a bump in resolution (it has 10MP like the Rebel XS). The 40D has faster shot-to-shot speed (6FPS) and a more rugged body. They run about $700-ish, I believe.

The Canon 50D (around $1100 for the body) has a 15MP sensor, but is well out of your price range.

I think the 12MP of the XSi is the best compromise between price and resolution.
 

Soccerman06

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There isn't an update around the corner I should be worried about, that could possibly drop the 50D into my range, or something with similar specs/cheaper is there because that always happens when I am looking into tech products.
 

jpeyton

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The Rebel XSi was announced about a year ago, and people are expecting Canon to update that model with one that shoots video sometime in the next month or two.

The 50D was announced at the end of August last year, so it's only 6 months old. Canon won't have a replacement until the 12-18 month mark.
 

magomago

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Sep 28, 2002
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You expect the XSi to be replaced that fast x_X?

Anyways I think it will be fine for what you want. With so much Canon gear already in hand, it makes no sense to go any other route. Btw...exactly how 'high res' are you going? What type of photography will you be doing in general?

I doubt 3 MP of the 50D will make a difference for you at all. Camera updates do not necessarily obsolete everything else...The XTi, and XT for that matter, can still bring out some reallly nice photos...
 

rivan

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Jul 8, 2003
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Also realize that MP jumps suffer from diminishing returns. The 4 megapixels from 6-10 MP yield far, far more bang than 10-14 would.

Shooting with RAW can also help you squeeze a little extra out of your images; upsampling from RAW > upsampling from jpg.

How high res are you looking to be? What's your final output?
 

Soccerman06

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I work mostly with 30x50" images with up to 500ppi posters for various companies. Now the work I have planned is more for fun and portfolio work, possibly displaying in shows if I feel they are up to quality. Honestly when I use my the 6mp camera, I have trouble separating clear pixel contrast, having to resort to a pathing tool to extract is such a pain.

My dads old EoS 10 just doesn't do enough. Now when I work with the 22mp Canons at work... that is like heaven for someone like me. I did a recent project at home using my fathers camera and it just doesn't look right, pixelation even at 11x17 at 150ppi, it looked horrible but when shrunk down to about 5x8 it worked fine, just too small.

My real preference is logo and script design but you have to show your talent and diversify is this crummy economy.

"good" photoshop work when you get to extreme sizes requires high quality resolutions. I'm not talking magazine adds which at best require 150ppi, example is what the size and quality of work I am responsible for. I didn't make this but you get the idea. Anything I make I put effort forth like I will for work, and sadly the perfectionist in me says every pixel will be perfect for me. If your a fan of Blizzard fan art you've probably have seen a piece or two from me. Work I have planned would involve a model at high res and close much like Example, however images like that are limited to internet colors, screen sizes, and 72ppi.

Hope that helps :)
 

jpeyton

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Well, given your budget, your best current option is still the Rebel XSi.

The jump from 12MP to 15MP isn't as huge as the jump from 6MP to 12MP.

But, if you're not in a hurry, it doesn't hurt to wait until March to see if Canon launches any new cameras.

If they do launch a new Rebel (which I expect they will), it will 1) drive down the cost of the XSi or 2) possibly provide another resolution bump (*if* they move to 15MP in their new Rebel).

One last option (just to cause more confusion ;)) is something that works well in a studio environment: the 15MP Canon G10. At base ISO, it has exceptional resolution. Here is a studio portrait taken with the G10.

And here's the somewhat famous comparison LL did between a G10 and a 39MP digital back.
 

Soccerman06

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omg I just threw up from that sites horrible typeface

and whoever did her hair needs to be shot because that is horrible.
 

rivan

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Originally posted by: Soccerman06
I work mostly with 30x50" images with up to 500ppi posters for various companies. Now the work I have planned is more for fun and portfolio work, possibly displaying in shows if I feel they are up to quality. Honestly when I use my the 6mp camera, I have trouble separating clear pixel contrast, having to resort to a pathing tool to extract is such a pain.

My dads old EoS 10 just doesn't do enough. Now when I work with the 22mp Canons at work... that is like heaven for someone like me. I did a recent project at home using my fathers camera and it just doesn't look right, pixelation even at 11x17 at 150ppi, it looked horrible but when shrunk down to about 5x8 it worked fine, just too small.

...

Hope that helps :)

A few comments on that from someone who's been printing for 20 years, large format for half of that time.

Magazine ads don't require 150 dpi - industry standard on anything but rags is 300 dpi. The first image you linked was from an artist that draws everything as vector - there's no raster in the source for that. I'm a huge fan of his, btw :) The second image you linked, the car ad, is backlit and as such is almost certainly printed by a lightjet, which has resolution requirements in the 200 ppi range. There are films for inkjets that can work for that, but they don't hold up well in installations like that.

500 ppi implies you're printing offset at 250 line screen and you're going off the old rule of thumb that you need 2x the line screen for quality print.

That rule breaks down somewhere around the 150-175 line mark. Diminishing returns on image quality is exponential - the jump from 200-300 ppi on 200+ line work will mostly get you a sharper, crisper image. Up to 400 really will refine something that's already nice. 500 ppi at final size is generally overkill (unless the numbers get an "ooooh" from your client - and then, really, all bets are off).

In addition, viewing distance is paramount. A 30x50" image isn't generally going to be scrutinized at a viewing distance of 4", meaning you can relax a little more on the input. 200 ppi is generally just fine for a viewing distance of 18". Billboards, designed for reading from the highway, are typically printed with resolutions in the 8-30 ppi range (the files are often still quite large - 30 ppi over 40 feet is still a lot of pixels:) ). Read here for more musing on the topic. I didn't read the whole page, but read over what he had to say about pixels versus the eye and generally agree with at least that part of the page.

What does this all mean? Well, if you're not exaggerating (perhaps unintentionally) your needs as I suspect, maybe you shouldn't be shooting digital, but medium format film/tx, then processing and scanning that film. I can sure tell you the guys that shot those cars did it on more than a $500 budget. In any event, no digital camera in a your price range is going to be able to deliver more than a small portion of an image like you describe. jpeyton lined out pretty clearly what your (digital) options were with your budget - if you need higher resolution, you need to expect to pay for that equipment.

Maybe rentals would be the way to go until you get a few jobs through the door? Maybe partner with a local photography studio? Or just buy what you can afford and make due until you do well enough that your business warrants spending more.
 

ThePresence

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Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: Soccerman06
"good" photoshop work when you get to extreme sizes requires high quality resolutions. I'm not talking magazine adds which at best require 150ppi

I don't know man, I've done many ads for magazines and newspapers over the years, the MINIMUM for print is generally 300 dpi across the board. For color, anyway. B&W can be done at 150 dpi iirc, but it's been a while.
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
The Rebel XSi was announced about a year ago, and people are expecting Canon to update that model with one that shoots video sometime in the next month or two.

The 50D was announced at the end of August last year, so it's only 6 months old. Canon won't have a replacement until the 12-18 month mark.

the PMA announcements came and went, so it's likely another 6 months before an update comes out. that'd put it on the traditional rebel 18 month cycle.

there is something to be said about putting the screws to the D90, though.