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Need help with Small Business Setup

McLovin

McLovin

Golden Member
First I have to say I've been reading through a few posts on the forums and I am impressed with the vast knowledge that all of you have and how friendly you all are giving! I look forward to all of your reponses and working with you all.



Ok, I consider myself fairly knowledgeable with windows xp and hardware in general but I have my first opportunity with a "client" so to speak and was needing a ltitle help getting started. I will be upgrading all of his computers and building a new server for him with a Quad Core Core 2 Duo and 4 GB of DDR2 8500.


My biggest question is how to set all of this up. I know he has a licensed version of Windows Server 03 (With Quickbooks) and he has 5 "workstations" that he uses to remote desktop into the server to create his inventory/work order/cash register. I belive he is using a very old style switch and 3 of the workstations are connected directly through a router to the internet. Please forgive my vague description because Im trying to remember what I saw 2 days ago lol. He complains that the entire network is slow (hence the upgrades) and he is also using the very basic Qwest DSL line for his ISP (speedtest.net shows a 400kbps Download and 200kbps upload).


Is there another way to connect all of his workstations to the server with using remote desktop? Correct me if Im wrong but wouldnt that be the slowest way of connecting together? Would it be better (for upgrades sake) to get 8 GB of system memory for the server and use Windows Server 2k3 x64? WOuld quickbooks even work under that O/S?


Anyway, if you have read through this and can understand what I am asking, please feel free to give me any advice. Thanks in Advance!



Billy
 
Welcome to AT Network forum.

Few pointers.

1. Quickbooks is not the state of the Art on Network accounting, if they are starting with new Real Server topography (Windows 2003) an other application should be considered.

Depending of the level of accounting needed, http://office.microsoft.com/en...ss/FX101729681033.aspx

Or, http://office.microsoft.com/en...ng/FX100518171033.aspx

2. People who come from a back round of building their own computer tend to build servers along the same lines the enthusiasts build "rigs".

Not a good idea, in most cases there is No saving of money, and the server would Not be as solid and safe like Dell, or similar brand, that specializing in Server Hardware.

3. If the client work stations count is much bellow 75, Windows 2003 SBS should be the server of choice.

Read this thread there is a lot of useful info there, http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2068452&enterthread=y

 
Billy,

Although your intentions are, I'm sure, the best, I urge you to find some professional assistance in designing this new business system. In addition to design and performance issues, there's safety and security to be concerned with when a business and employees are involved.

I didn't start designing networks for others until I'd obtained some Microsoft Server certifications, attended several networking and security courses, had spent many hours on virtual networks, and had worked with my own Servers for a year. Even then, I made lots of mistakes.

I really hate it when I visit a new office and I find that the Server install has been serioiusly messed up by somebody who had inadequate Server experience. Some of the repairs to make it "right" would cost them thousands of dollars. Not to mention the HUGE number of offices that have never been given proper tools or instructions to keep offsite backups of their data.
 
I guess I'm kind of at loss here because it seems like jack is saying this is something I can accomplish and you're telling me it isn't lol.

I believe that I have the knowledge on how to set all of this up on my own but I'm just looking for a little guidance in the right direction. I will be honest in saying there isn't a lot I know but I'm sure I can figure out.

 
Billy you can rest assure that Rebate Monger knows what he is talking about, he is very good at Small Business installations.

As for me, knowing that IT pros tend to forget that the Network is a tool and not the business itself, I sometimes take a different approach, and stick to whatever information is given.

Like in your case, may be getting a better ISP contract and finding out what bogs down the system might solve the acute problem.

On the other hand there might be risks and catastrophes waiting to happen that do not reflect in your post.

In issues like this the problem is what you do not know, that you don?t know.

Example, many free spirit installers install Networks in medical offices, they know what they do Network wise, however they never heard about HIPAA and they end up installing very good illegal Network.

P.S. I did not even address this rather ?strange? statement. ?Is there another way to connect all of his workstations to the server with using remote desktop? Correct me if I?m wrong but wouldn?t that be the slowest way of connecting together? Would it be better (for upgrades sake) to get 8 GB of system memory for the server and use Windows Server 2k3 x64? ?

Remote desktop is a tool for period configuration and maintenance ny the network admin.
It Not a communication/connecting application per-se and thus not a factor in determined the hardware, or other needs of a server.
 
Jack,

I asked that question wrong. I meant to ask if there was a way to set it up WITHOUT using remote desktop. Thats what they use now and to me it seems they have very little to firewall protection. I was planning on getting Kaspersky Open-Space AV and maybe Zone Alarm for software and see what Router/Switch they were using exactly and go from there. I will say you did have me go back and take a look at what I had setup for the server build and decided to change it up a bit, so for that and all of the other advice, I say thank you.

 
First thing First..

Business grade HARDWARE firewall. I would suggest smoothwall or something similar, but judging from the questions you have been asking, the configuration would be to much work. Get something solid from Watchguard or SonicWall at the very least.

Remote Desktop/Terminal Services is not inherently slow, but you say "old style" switches.. are they hubs? are the 10 Mbit or 100? Hub's would make the whole setup run like crap. 8GB's of memory are probably overkill. What is the CPU/Ram utilization on the current server? Also, this keeps all your CRITICAL BUSINESS FILES in one location for easy and secure backup. Hell, you could run linux on the workstations and connect to that terminal services server and save more OS $ at any point. Terminal Services is a good thing for the most part.

Get rid of anything that isn't a true switch, I'd recommend putting a 3Com/Netgear Gbit switch between the computers and the server...

Core 2 quad? no. Either get opteron/Xeon or go home. You should spend no less than 2.5k on that server.. Raid 5 or 10 is a requirement, and proper tape or external hdd offsite backup a must.

How old are the workstations? I'm betting the problem is more in the network infrastructure than anything else. If that current server is not like a pentium3. I have p2 450's running XP (yes.. XP on ancient hardware) that have no issues with Terminal Services.

 
Call Dell about that server. Really, you need 2 things for this server. CPU and memory are neither of these.

1. Disks, get H/W raid1, maybe raid5 (but 1 is eaiser/cheaper). Hot Swappable SATA drives might help with #2

2. Backup device. I don't know what to say other then raid is not a backup, and backups are required for business. My raid statement is a LITTLE off, as you COULD get a few drives, and just pull the mirror drive every week, but that is a piss poor backup. Note that a piss poor backup is leaps and bounds above no backup, which should be unacceptable.

 
Yeah, i said raid 10, but 1 is likely enough. 🙂

and yes, backup is key here.. a decent tape drive/setup should be right around 2k depending on how big of capacity you decide on.
 
To neaver's list, I'd add ECC memory. While not a 100% necessity, it almost completely eliminates a common hardware problem. It's one less thing to worry about.
 
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
To neaver's list, I'd add ECC memory. While not a 100% necessity, it almost completely eliminates a common hardware problem. It's one less thing to worry about.
Click to expand...

guess I'm spoiled, a I don't think of a "server" with regular memory, only ECC.
 
That's why i suggested opteron/xeon, I guess I also didn't say "server grade motherboard" either, but I did mean to imply that. as all would incorporate ECC ram.

Without load averages/utilization the required speed is a crapshoot for any of us..

Add in Backup Exec, Undelete and add in about $500...
 
OoteRO2 -
A note about Xeons and Intel:
At an Intel Partner conference last fall, Intel told us that the next series of "lower-end" Xeons would actually be re-badged desktop CPUs.
 
Ooh, sneaky.

I guess that doesn't surprise me.. Most companies just rebadge.

And I just looked, the quads from Dell only tack on about $150 to a midrange server.. Not to shabby. I configured what I would shoot for this setup and it actually ran about $3400..

add about $600 for a proper network (switch, firewall) and it'd be all set.
 
I think quads is overkill. I mean, really, is quickbooks that CPU intensive? as long as it's ~3Ghz range, 2GB memory, I think those will be fine. afaik quickbooks isn't SMP aware, so it won't matter if you have duals/quads. You should be able to bring this in under 2K for server alone (maybe with SBS server).
 
I configured w/out OS, he said he had 2003 there.

I don't know enough about Quickbooks, Is it one process over several remote connections, or one for each? Either way I added the quad just for headroom.. and I added tapes, etc to the thing as well. It could be done cheaper for sure, I just did it straight from Dell, and the software, ram, etc is inflated there.
 
The current Quickbooks (2006 and 2007) runs a database server (their own database engine) on the Server. Then you run the client application (Quickbooks itself) either on the client PCs or on a Terminal Server (unsupported except with Quickbooks Enterprise). Basically, the Server itself does very little.
 
their own engine? .. Some companies don't like their clients, especially if the DB isn't multithreaded..

Sounds like you may as well run this on a cheaper cpu (read dually, not quad) with a higher clock for sure...

Learn something new everyday..

Anyway, seems 3/4 of his problem is his network infrastructure, and/or a rather dilapidated server..
 
I haven't done nearly the amount of SMB stuff as RebateMonger has but I will say I agree with everyone else here, it sounds more like an infrastructure problem. Much more information is needed from the OP to figure out where the "network is slow" is coming from. If it's a hub or 10baseT switch, that would cause a slow network. As far as the server, what is the business going to be using the server for (Email, file sharing, print sharing, just for quickbooks, what?) The needs and future needs of the business will determine what type of server to get. You do NOT want to build a server yourself or even configure it yourself for that matter unless you've done it more than 5 times in the past. Either look to Dell once you figure out the business needs and then contact a consultant or just contact a consultant now (research the consultant first, find one that's fairly knowledgeable) and the consultant will take care of everything after that. The key thing with servers for businesses is hardware. A server has to have 100% uptime. If something fails, you can't just take down a server for repair as this is literally costing money each minute or hour that it's down. It'll definitely need a RAID based disk setup as well as a reliable tape backup system for backups. As others have said, RAID is not for backups. For me, RAID just increases the uptime for the server in case of hard drive failure. If a disk dies, you can get a replacement disk while the data is still being used by the employees.
 
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