Need Help With Projector and Speaker Placement

[Gunslinger08]

Sorry, this is going to be a long post with a lot of measurements. Planning on finishing my basement soon and I want to build a small home theater. Here's my basic plan (some lines may not be to scale):
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/joshsquall/basement.png

The problem is that there's an obstruction (my first floor's main beam) at 12' from the front of the projector shelf in the picture. My ceilings will be about 93" high, with a 14" obstruction at that point. I'm looking to have a 100" screen, which is 49" tall. I want to have 2 rows of seating, so that means I'll have a riser for the back row near the projector shelf. So what I need help with is figuring out if this is doable. Say I put the projector near 79" from the ground and adjust the lens shift so the top of the image is almost immediately below the beam. Let's say I have to go 1" below, so that's 78" for floor clearance and the image, giving me 29" of floor clearance. I'm not sure how that's going to work with the riser height to see over the front row. 93" ceilings are 7'8". If I need a 16" riser, that's down to 6'4" which could get cramped (I'm 6'4"). Where should I place the seats to maximize the viewing experience and minimize the height needed for a riser?

So what should I do? I'm not 100% sure on the width of the wall that the screen will be on. A 100" screen is 87" wide. With a 30" door to access the rest of the basement, that doesn't leave a lot of space to put front speakers. I'm also not sure where to mount surrounds and rears (7.1). I had considered flipping the theater around so that the projector is mounted in front of the main beam and projecting towards the shelves with a drop down screen, but that would put the beam directly above the seating and the screen would probably be off center because of the door into the basement.

Help?

 

[vi edit]

If you have the chance to design this from scratch (assuming no existing framing) why set it up that way?

That looks like a placement and acoustical nightmare.

 

[Gunslinger08]

That's just my first attempt. This is why I made this thread. What are your suggestions?

 

[vi edit]

My suggestion would be to put the theatre in the space currently labeled "bedroom". That's what...roughly 20 x 14 or so? Perfect space for a theatre with two rows of seating. You've got one window to deal with but that's easily addressed.

What do you have for rough in's for plumbing? Are they already in the place where you have the bath located? Also, where are the stairs coming down from the first floor?

 

[Gunslinger08]

My suggestion would be to put the theatre in the space currently labeled "bedroom". That's what...roughly 20 x 14 or so? Perfect space for a theatre with two rows of seating. You've got one window to deal with but that's easily addressed.

What do you have for rough in's for plumbing? Are they already in the place where you have the bath located? Also, where are the stairs coming down from the first floor?

Bedroom is 18'x11'. The rough in's are where the bathroom is in the diagram. The stairs are in the lower left with the phantom 30" door.

 

[vi edit]

Ok, so all traffic coming down would funnel through the theater room? Not cool.

You need to really elaborate on what you have to work with floor plan wise. Just give a basic outline of the foundation. Mark where the mechanicals are. Mark any beams you have. Mark any HVAC ducting that you have to soffit around. Where is the electric panel located? What rooms are directly above this? Do you have any support beams between the basement floor and the main floor anywhere?

 

[Gunslinger08]

I'll have to wait until I get home tonight to give a more detailed drawing, but here's the basic layout:
- The diagram above is the full outline of the foundation. The stairs have a landing halfway down, so the storage area beside the main door is actually below the top half of the stairs.
- Mechanicals (furnace, water heater, sump pump) are all in the "Utility" room.
- The only beam is the one I described, about 12' out from the shelf area in the bottom left. It spans the entire basement (through the utility room into the bedroom).
- Soffits will only be needed in 2 places. My main HVAC lines are run right beside (below, in this diagram) the beam. I have another smaller round HVAC line running from the left end of the beam to the front of the house (which is the bottom, in this diagram). This line will only require about a 6" down/out soffit.
- My electric panel is in the garage, on the opposite wall from the side of the bedroom. I'm going to run a sub-panel into the closet or bedroom.
- The floor above is basically 4 quadrants. Top left is living room. Top right is kitchen. Bottom right is dining room. Bottom left is entry way and my office.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I agree with Vi's recomendation if you can pull it off...
Otherwise, if you stick with your current room, and you build a riser, but it's not tall enough since you want to leave room above your head, just consider getting front row seats that are very low to the ground with back row seats that are higher....

You probably already know this link, but here's a calculator that will tell you what riser height is recommended given a set of measurements.
http://www.theater-calc.com/
Most likely, it will say something like 12-13 inches, as my riser (still under construction) is 12 feet back from the screen, with the 1st row about 4 feet in front of it... and I've got a 7.5 foot ceiling, and using a projector with a decent amount of offset and trying to minimize use of keystone ... (so essentially, the top of the screen is about 15 or so inches from the ceiling ....)

Anyhow ... my back row seats will just be a second hand couch I got from my mom, but it's a very low to the ground couch, I'll probably replace the legs with ones 3-4 inches longer ... just to boost the height a little bit ....

 

[Gunslinger08]

A couple of things:
- It seems like everyone else puts seats much closer to their screen than the THX recommendation. How close should my front row be? THX is 11.2'.
- The width measurement in my diagram of 12' is actually 14'.
- I don't think the bedroom area would work because of the bathroom placement. I'd also really like to keep a bedroom downstairs, for resale.
- I'm thinking about flipping my design around, so the projector would be mounted in front of the obstruction (12' from the front/bottom wall) and project onto the front/bottom wall. The Epson 8350 can throw a 100" screen from 9.8', so the throw distance wouldn't be a problem. This would also help with screen and riser height, because I could move the screen as close to the ceiling as I wanted. Finally, this gives me more width for seating (up to 10' or so, instead of 8'). I am limited to about 100" of usable width on that wall, which only gives me about 13" to work with outside of the screen width. Could I put the front speakers below the screen? I'm not sure that I can find good performing speakers that are 5" or so wide.

 

[velillen]

Im not expert so take ii with a grain of salt (and see what others say)

But if your set on the room you have, why not build to make a hallway for the stairs to come into. Would mean reducing your theater to the 19'x~10" but then your knock out foot traffic coming downstairs as well as extra doors for the utility room and the such.

As for the 7.1 heres what little i have picked up from random browsing and reading. Again additional input from others before you fully trust what i say

You should try to have your front L/R and Center all be the same speaker. Ie if your L/R are polk monitor 70's you should try to use a polk monitor 70 for the center.

Sides should probably be a di polar speaker.
Rears are rears and i have no idea

 

[Gunslinger08]

Foot traffic doesn't really matter to me. I'm married with no children. This space is really only going to be used by my wife and I or me and my friends when they come into town. Regardless, there will probably never be a bunch of people going in and out.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Working on a SketchUp drawing. Here's what I have so far. Still need to add in the rest of the doors, furniture, and the main beam.

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/joshsquall/progress.png

 

[Gunslinger08]

Here's my next stab. I can't figure out how to place items correctly on the z-axis, so I took this shot from above. This is looking more "theater like". I might eliminate the side speakers and just do a 5.1 system, because I'm not sure where the right side speaker would actually go. The theater in this one is 18' long by 14' wide at the rear. It's closer to 12' wide at the front

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/joshsquall/done_maybe.png

 

[Fardringle]

I'm curious why you don't have the screen extend the full length (or at least most of the length) of the wall? From your first sketch it looks like the door to the stairs opens toward the wall so as long as you make sure the doorknob doesn't hit the screen when it is opened, you could have a significantly larger screen if your projector will allow it at that distance from the screen. You could even configure the screen so that it can be raised up when not in use and then there is no chance of it being touched by the door.

 

[velillen]

Foot traffic doesn't really matter to me. I'm married with no children. This space is really only going to be used by my wife and I or me and my friends when they come into town. Regardless, there will probably never be a bunch of people going in and out.

Besides the foot traffic, which might not seem like an issue, but what if your wife is coming and going while you are watching something? Needing in the closet and stuff and neding the lights on.

The main reason for adding a wall would be sound isolation though. if you leave it as is all that sound is going to try filling that side of the room and go upstairs as wel Just something to consider. And it gives you a mounting point for the side speaker instead of having to have it on a stand or something .

 

[Gunslinger08]

I'm curious why you don't have the screen extend the full length (or at least most of the length) of the wall? From your first sketch it looks like the door to the stairs opens toward the wall so as long as you make sure the doorknob doesn't hit the screen when it is opened, you could have a significantly larger screen if your projector will allow it at that distance from the screen. You could even configure the screen so that it can be raised up when not in use and then there is no chance of it being touched by the door.

The space is a little short of 12' wide. That's about 140". The door is 30" with maybe another 2" needed for clearance (locking mechanism and a little free space). That gives me 108" to work with. A 100" screen is 87" wide. Then add the trim around the screen, which is probably 2 or 3 inches. So I have 18" total for speakers. That's about the best I can do.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Besides the foot traffic, which might not seem like an issue, but what if your wife is coming and going while you are watching something? Needing in the closet and stuff and neding the lights on.

The main reason for adding a wall would be sound isolation though. if you leave it as is all that sound is going to try filling that side of the room and go upstairs as wel Just something to consider. And it gives you a mounting point for the side speaker instead of having to have it on a stand or something .

Really the only time she goes into the basement is to get out Christmas decorations. I'm seriously not concerned about traffic. She'll either be sitting there with me or upstairs.

I really don't think I can fit a wall there. That would make the entire theater about 9' wide, which would limit me to a 2x2 seating configuration, and even that would be tight (1' or so on each side).

 

[BurnItDwn]

A couple of things:
- It seems like everyone else puts seats much closer to their screen than the THX recommendation. How close should my front row be? THX is 11.2'.
- The width measurement in my diagram of 12' is actually 14'.
- I don't think the bedroom area would work because of the bathroom placement. I'd also really like to keep a bedroom downstairs, for resale.
- I'm thinking about flipping my design around, so the projector would be mounted in front of the obstruction (12' from the front/bottom wall) and project onto the front/bottom wall. The Epson 8350 can throw a 100" screen from 9.8', so the throw distance wouldn't be a problem. This would also help with screen and riser height, because I could move the screen as close to the ceiling as I wanted. Finally, this gives me more width for seating (up to 10' or so, instead of 8'). I am limited to about 100" of usable width on that wall, which only gives me about 13" to work with outside of the screen width. Could I put the front speakers below the screen? I'm not sure that I can find good performing speakers that are 5" or so wide.

At work and bbzzdd is blocked, so can't see your sketch, but, as far as front row distance... you have a decision to make ...
Which row do you want to be the "sweet spot", front row or back row?
Whichever one you choose, set it up so that that row is "perfect" for sound + video, then, set the other row wherever it will fit...
In my case, I put my front row about 8 feet back (front of the seat), which makes the eye level about 10-11 feet back, which is pretty close to dead on.
My second row will be on my riser right behind it, and then I'll be building or aquiring a bar table for behind that...

Note: the room my theater is in is very narrow and long, 10x27, with the screen being 3 feet from the wall as there's a door to a bedroom down there ... so theater area is really more like 10x24 ...

Front speakers below the screen is not optimal, ideally, you'd have them at ear level, however, if you put them below the screen, on some kind of riser to bring them up to the bottom of the screen, and perhaps angle them up a bit, it should still sound good... I have a pair of BIC RTR1530's that I've turned on their sides, (with the tweeters at the outside edges) and angled in and up a bit... My room is only 10 feet wide, and due to a soffit for my hvac vent, my screen is offset to one side a bit, so I've got like 3 inches between my screen and the wall on that side...

 

[slashbinslashbash]

My suggestion would be to move everything to the north (picture orientation) and create a storage/hallway space in the south end. I don't think it's a good idea to have the stairs come directly into the HT. You say foot traffic won't be an issue, but you mention resale value of the bedroom so you should take this into consideration IMO.... there should be a path from the stairs to the bedroom without having to cross through the theater (and ideally it would not pass through the bathroom, either... should be easy to make the "hallway" longer, turn the bathroom into an east-west configuration, and move the closet space around). This plan will take up a good portion of the space in the northern room, but it should mitigate the beam problem (the beam will be at the back of the room) and it didn't sound like you had plans for that northern space anyway. Even so, there should be enough space left over to have a decent sitting room / workshop / garden room. Also I don't know how fixed the dimensions/sides of the utility room are.... hopefully it doesn't matter which side it is accessed on? It'd be a lot better to not have those utility room doors fronting into your HT.

 

[vi edit]

Another suggestion about speaker placement is going with a shallow false wall and an acoustically transparent screen and sticking your speakers behind that.

Here's how mine is set up:
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com...4rBWDHIbJc_9ooDc51zRUJHqg/IMG_3860.JPG?psid=1

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com...pGgQH0oZxCpuz3AKk116BH-aw/IMG_5038.JPG?psid=1

 

[Gunslinger08]

Update. Here are quick cell phone pictures of the basement, with descriptions. I'm now also considering opening up the back wall to the rest of the room, with a bar table top behind the 2nd row of seating. Still need to figure out the height of those back seats to see if it's feasible.

Door from the stairs into the basement. Screen and front speakers will be to the right of this picture.

Bump out and wall behind the door. The bump out is 2' deep and 8' wide. Total available width from the right wall to a few inches short of the door will be 106", when framed.

Pulled back view of the entry door and screen wall, showing the main beam. This picture is from about 25'. The front of the beam is about 14' from the screen. There's a 10" or so HVAC line in front of it, so the back of the projector will be around 13' from the screen.

Right wall and location of main clean out and water lines. I'll need to build an access panel here.

View from near the screen towards the back of the house.

Further down the back wall.

Mechanicals and pole. The pole is just about 14' from the side wall of the theater area. I'll probably box the beam into the utility room, giving about 13'6" in total width. Assuming a 30" door with 3" spacing on the right, that gives me 129" of width to work with. Seating is probably 100-110" wide, so that gives me plenty of space for a step up to the riser.

Mechanicals, hallway to bathroom, storage under stairs. There will be a door on the storage area. The utility room will be flush with the left wall of the storage area.

View from the area behind the theater into the bedroom.

View from the edge of the utility room into the closet and bathroom.

continued...

 

[Gunslinger08]

View from a few feet inside the rear entrance through the utility room into the bathroom and hallway.

Closer shot of the closet and bathroom. The rough in's are in a strange spot if you ask me. The cleanout on the left will be just inside of the closet.

View from the bathroom down the hallway into the theater. It'll be about 3'8" wide.

Close up shot of the beam and HVAC duct that's been causing me headaches. From my calculations, the back row of seating is probably going to start right around the back of the beam. Finished clearance will be 6'9" to the ground. Riser of 9-12" will make this a headache for others if they don't look out. Unfortunately I can't think of a much better plan.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Another suggestion about speaker placement is going with a shallow false wall and an acoustically transparent screen and sticking your speakers behind that.

Here's how mine is set up:
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com...4rBWDHIbJc_9ooDc51zRUJHqg/IMG_3860.JPG?psid=1

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com...pGgQH0oZxCpuz3AKk116BH-aw/IMG_5038.JPG?psid=1

That's something I was considering. I have a few questions:
1. Are you happy with the sound?
2. Where'd you get your screen?
3. Are your L/R speakers firing straight out or are they angled?
4. What kind of speakers are those?

I could probably build a wall across my bump out area to make it flat with the wall beside my door, with slots for the 3 front speakers. Then I'd hang the screen on the wall over them.

If I do 7.1, I either have to put the side speakers at different distances from the center of the listening area (4' vs. about 10') or use in-ceiling speakers. Which would you recommend? I could place the speaker on a stand beside the seating, but I'm not sure if that would look tacky or get knocked over. I have space in the back for bookshelf/mounted rear surrounds. If I go with in-ceiling side speakers, should I use in-ceiling rear surrounds too?

 

[vi edit]

Here's my build thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2122318&highlight=dedicated

I'm actually using some fairly high end "in wall" speakers that I converted to "on wall". Sound wise I'm very happy given the compromises I made. The speakers aren't tilted but the tweeters are fully aimable at the seating positions. You have no idea there is a screen in front of them if you close your eyes and listen.

My screen is an Elite Screens Acoustipro. It's a weave pattern. Purchased in a projector package (Mitsubishi 3800) from a place that is now no longer in business (damn...I just noticed that trying to get the URL for you...that's *another business I bought from that went under...doh!)

My only complaint is that it's a 100" screen and I'm sitting about 9' from it. In very specific scene & color combinations you can see the weave and the picture is degraded. Step back another foot or two and unnoticable. The worst scenes for it are cloudy/dusty scenes that lean more on the yellow/orange/amber scale. All other images look fantastic.

I'll have a little more time the next couple nights to really look at your floorplan and maybe tweak some things. Been tied up the last few.