Need help with Overclocking Athlon 64 X2 3800+ on GA-M56S-S3

[kedolf]

Hi there everybody,
I'm new here and this is my first post so once again welcome. Being OC newbie I hope I can learn a lot from you guys and am glad to be here. If you find my grammar and style a bit stiff or faulty please do forgive me - English is not my first language. I'm hoping some of you out there can help me with my first steps in OC. Here are my system specs and my problems:
- mobo: GA-M56S-S3
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2607#ov
Chipset:

- Northbridge NVIDIA nForce 560 rev. A3
Southbridge NVIDIA nForce 560 rev. A3
Graphic Interface PCI-Express
PCI-E Link Width x16
PCI-E Max Link Width x16
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 2 GBytes
Channels Dual
Memory Frequency 401.8 MHz (CPU/5)
CAS# latency (CL) 5.0
RAS# to CAS# delay (tRCD) 5
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 5
Cycle Time (tRAS) 18
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 24
Command Rate (CR) 2T

- CPU: Athlon 64 X2 3800+

CPUID F.B.2
Extended CPUID F.4B
Brand ID 4
Core Stepping BH-F2
Technology 90 nm
Core Speed 2009.2 MHz
Multiplier x Bus Speed 10.0 x 200.9 MHz
HT Link speed 1004.6 MHz
Stock frequency 2000 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64, AMD-V
L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
Max FID 10.0x
Max VID 1.400 V

BIOS:
vendor Award Software International Inc.
version F4e
date 03/04/2008
ROM size 512 KB

GPU processor: GeForce GT 610
Driver version: 334.89
Direct3D API version: 11
Direct3D feature level: 11_0
CUDA Cores: 48
Core clock: 810 MHz
Shader clock: 1620 MHz
Memory data rate: 1000 MHz
Memory interface: 64-bit
Memory bandwidth: 8.00 GB/s
Total available graphics memory: 2815 MB
Dedicated video memory: 2048 MB DDR3
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 767 MB
Video BIOS version: 75.19.55.00.10
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16
Device Id: 10DE 104A 26193842
Part Number: 1310 0004

Windows Version Microsoft Windows 7 (6.1) 32-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
DirectX Version 11.0

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

My objective is to OC CPU to 2400MHZ clock. I understand that the most expedient way to do this would be by raising FSB in the Bios. Athlon 64 X2 3800+ has a 10x multi. Therefore raising my FSB to 240 would result in a 2400MHZ clock. The problem is I don't know how to do this and cannot find this option in the Bios or maybe I don't see it because it's named differently. On my ancient K7VT4A Pro the CPU FSB frequency was determined by jumper-setting on motherboard. Here I cannot find such thing. There is something in the Bios called MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.) offering the following options to change but I still don't see any FSB tweaks here:
CPU Frequency [200]
PCIE Clock [100Mhz]
CPU Clock Ratio [Auto]
Robust Graphics Booster [Auto]
Chipset Voltage Control [Normal]
DDR2 Voltage Control [Auto]
CPU Voltage Control [Normal]
Normal CPU Vcore 1.3500V

I will immensely appreciate any help from you. I know my system is weak and it is time for a change but I'm flat broke at the moment and overclocking the CPU to 2400 MHZ is my only hope to play GTA IV at all.

 

[nwo]

There should be an option to increase the bus speed. Out of the options you mentioned, none of them will be able to OC the CPU.

Maybe you can find a specific motherboard utility to OC from windows. I know I had one on my old MSI nForce motherboard when I overclocked my old socket 754 Athlon 64 x2 3200+ to 2.4GHz. All you would need to do is change your FSB or bus speed. Hopefully your RAM will be able to keep up, otherwise you would have to mess with your FSB:RAM ratio and that's something you would definitely have to change through the BIOS.

Getting a $30 video card might help more than overclocking the CPU. You might fry that thing if you do not have adequate cooling.

 

[BUnit1701]

CPU Frequency is the value you want to change in M.I.T., it is mislabeled, but represents the 'base clock' which is the evolution/equivalent of FSB.

Be aware that (at least the Intel Core2 versions) nVidia chipsets were notorious for both having 'frequency holes' (FSB/Base clock frequencies that would not POST even if the CPU can handle it, higher FSB would POST again) and for being limited in how high they clock. 240 sounds OK in terms of not being that high of a clock, but IIRC, that seems to be about where the Intel chipsets had one of the frequency holes.

 

[kedolf]

CPU Frequency is the value you want to change in M.I.T., it is mislabeled, but represents the 'base clock' which is the evolution/equivalent of FSB.

Hi and thanks for your prompt reply. Would you care to guide me as to what value should I change the CPU Frequency to. Do I have to do it in small increments, say 5 MHz? And what about locking my RAM or lowering the clock and locking PCI E to 100 MHZ - it's already at 100 MHZ Auto? I don't know those things these are really my first steps here.

 

[nwo]

You definitely want to lock PCI-e to 100MHz or just keep it at 100MHz.

I would start in increments of 20-30 for the CPU frequency, then you can switch to increments of 5 and bump the voltage by 0.05 once instability arises.

 

[kedolf]

There should be an option to increase the bus speed. [...] Maybe you can find a specific motherboard utility to OC from windows.

Hi and thanks for your prompt reply too. The BIOS manual from http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2607#ov differs slightly from the one I have on my system. Believe me I went through every option there and couldn't find any reference to FSB tweaks unless it is somehow mislabeled or I'm getting blind. Some guys at Tom's Hardware forum apparently managed to OC this CPU to 2.7 or even 3.0 with good cooling. As to specific motherboard utility to OC from Windows would the SysTool be any good?

 

[kedolf]

then you can switch to increments of 5 and bump the voltage by 0.05 once instability arises.

Sorry for totally ignorant question but which voltage are you referring to:
Chipset Voltage Control [Normal]
DDR2 Voltage Control [Auto]
CPU Voltage Control [Normal]
and what do you mean by bumping the voltage by 0.05? Do you mean increase it or decrease it by 0.05 (0.05V I guess)?

 

[nwo]

I was referring to CPU voltage. Increasing it by increments of 0.05V from the stock setting. So if your CPU is at 1.35V now, then the first increment would be increasing it to 1.4V.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Just so you know, GTA IV on PC requires a quad-core to be playable. Sorry for the bad news...

 

[kedolf]

GTA IV requires a quad-core

Thanks for the bad news Larry. Life sucks I know and know very well. As for the quad-core requirement that's debatable statement. Some "Can You Run It" - like services tell you that you need Phenom X3 2,1 GHz for Recommended Sys. Req. while Athlon X2 64 2.4Ghz for Minimum will suffice. I tend to agree with it for I have no problems running GTA SA on maxed settings. Overall GTA series do not seem to be that resources hungry as, say, STALKER or GOTHIC. But anyway let's stick to OC before the admins castrate us both for OT. If you have any hints for me I'm all ears.

 

[SPBHM]

GTA 4 can be played with this CPU, don't expect good performance, but if you lower the settings it's realistic to play at around or a little over 20fps most of the time, with some or many slowdonws for under 20, but I managed to play the game with my X2 back when it was new, another problem for you is memory, GTA and 2GB overall is not ideal, using maybe windows xp, or x86 no x64 windows if using Vista+ is probably going to help.

as for OC, first thing, lower the HT clock to 800MHz or 4x, that's because overclocking the "FSB" is going to affect the hyper transport clock, most AM2 boards don't like when it's over 1000MHz (250x4 = 1000MHz)

second you need to make sure you have the right memory divider, I don't remember exactly what shoud you use, it depends on the final CPU clock and multiplier of the CPU, but to be safe, lower your memory on the bios to 667/533, also to be safe set manually the memory timings, choose the default values for your memory at 800, it should eliminate this as your main limitation or cause of instability when you increase the clock, next try to overclock the CPU, try 220, 240, 250 on the FSB/HT and so on...
that's basically what I used to do with s754/939/AM2

 

[sm625]

There is something in the Bios called MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.) offering the following options to change but I still don't see any FSB tweaks here:
CPU Frequency [200]
PCIE Clock [100Mhz]
CPU Clock Ratio [Auto]
Robust Graphics Booster [Auto]
Chipset Voltage Control [Normal]
DDR2 Voltage Control [Auto]
CPU Voltage Control [Normal]
Normal CPU Vcore 1.3500V

That's it right there. Set that to 240 and you will have 2400MHz on a 10x multi. But dont get your hopes up. Even at 3.6GHz it would not game as fast as a stock P35/P45 E8600 system. And that's not exactly blazing fast.

 

[Deders]

Make sure you switch the gameplay recording feature off, that should free up a core's worth of power. I still remember it used to chug a bit on my old Atlon64x2@6000.

 

[kedolf]

Be aware that (at least the Intel Core2 versions) nVidia chipsets were notorious for both having 'frequency holes'

Hi and thanks,
would this situation apply to me? Correct me if I'm wrong but I have nVIDIA nForce 560 chip, apparently nothing to do with Intel. I just flashed new BIOS hoping to get some more options for OC and more info about the chipset and none of the sys info apps I have links me in any way to things Intel.
Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset: nVIDIA nForce 560, AMD Hammer
Memory Timings: 5-5-5-18 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
Command Rate (CR): 1T
DIMM1: A-Data DQVE1A16 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz) (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz) (3-3-3-9 @ 200 MHz)
DIMM2: A-Data DQVE1A16 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz) (4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz) (3-3-3-9 @ 200 MHz)

BIOS Properties:
System BIOS Date 08/20/10
Video BIOS Date 05/03/12
Award BIOS Type Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message GA-M56S-S3 F6h
DMI BIOS Version F6h

 

[BUnit1701]

I thought a bit about it after writing that post and I doubt it. The frequency hole I remember has to be higher than 333, as that was the default FSB speed for the board I had, I think the hole was around either 350Mhz or 360Mhz. You should be fine, but the only way to know for sure is to try.

 

[SPBHM]

That's it right there. Set that to 240 and you will have 2400MHz on a 10x multi. But dont get your hopes up. Even at 3.6GHz it would not game as fast as a stock P35/P45 E8600 system. And that's not exactly blazing fast.

240x5 = 1200, my AM2 board was unstable with this HT clock,

2400Mhz with the mem set at 800 could mean higher memory clock than what the memory can run,

so as I said, better lower the HT and memory before increasing the "FSB".

CR at 2t can also give you an easier time with OC, but performance is a little lower.

 

[kedolf]

so as I said, better lower the HT and memory before increasing the "FSB"

Hi and thanks again,
I have two options in the BIOS I don't quite understand other then it has something to do with HT. What should I do with this before I start OC? And one more question, I can't seem to find C1E in my BIOS so that I could disable it. Any idea if it is necessary at all in my case?

K8 <-> NB HT SPEED
1x
2x
3x
4x
5x
AUTO
K8 <-> NB HT WIDTH
arrow down 8 arrow up 8
arrow down 16 arrow up 16
AUTO

CR at 2t can also give you an easier time with OC.

Where is this option in BIOS?

 

[SPBHM]

Hi and thanks again,
I have two options in the BIOS I don't quite understand other then it has something to do with HT. What should I do with this before I start OC? And one more question, I can't seem to find C1E in my BIOS so that I could disable it. Any idea if it is necessary at all in my case?

K8 <-> NB HT SPEED
1x
2x
3x
4x
5x
AUTO
K8 <-> NB HT WIDTH
arrow down 8 arrow up 8
arrow down 16 arrow up 16
AUTO



Where is this option in BIOS?

change K8 <-> NB HT SPEED to 4x, and you should be safe up to 250MHz on the "FSB"

NB HT width you can keep at auto.


the CR option should be close to other memory settings,

as for C1E, you don't really need to turn power saving features off but, on my AM2 board I used to have stability issues with Cool n Quiet on, basically at a very specific memory divider when the CPU was changing the clock the memory clock would go way over the default and full load clock and cause the system to freeze, so if you want to simplify things you could disable power saving features until you are happy with the OC so you can test with it on.

also as I said, it can be important to lower the memory clock to let's say 667, but also set memory timings manually, because some boards will just read the SPD and use the 667 timings, and once you OC it can become unstable, so if you set manually higher timing (like the defaults for 800) it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[kedolf]

change K8 <-> NB HT SPEED to 4x, and you should be safe up to 250MHz on the "FSB"

Done and then...
OK, my increments were 0.10 and I managed to go as high as 240. At 250 system didn't even POST. I cleared CMOS, went again and here's what I have at 240.
CPU FREQUENCY 240
PCIE CLOCK 100MHZ
CPU CLOCK RATIO.set on.AUTO
other choices:
x5
x5.5
x6
x6.5
x7
x7.5
x8
x8.5
x9
x9.5
x10
ROBUST GRAPHIC
BOOSTER............set on.....AUTO
other choices: FAST
TURBO
SYSTEM CLOCK MANUAL
MEM CLOCK set on DDR 667 as you suggested, a drop from 800

DRAM CONFIGURATION:
DDRII TIMING ITEMS MANUAL from original at 800
CAS# LATENCY 5T
RAS to CAS R/W DELAY 5T
ROW PRECHARGE TIME 5T
MIN RAS ACTIVE TIME 18T
1T/2T COMMAND TIMING 1T
TwTr COMMAND DELAY 3T
TrFc0 for DIMM 1 105ns
TrFc2 for DIMM 2 105ns
TrFc1 for DIMM 3 75ns
TrFc3 for DIMM 4 75ns
WRITE RECOVERY TIME 6T
PRECHARGE TIME 3T
ROW CYCLE TIME 24T
RAS TO CAS DELAY 3T
BANK SWIZZLE MODE ENABLED

CHIPSET VOLTAGE CONTROL.set on.......NORMAL
other choices:
+0.025V
+0.050V
+0.100V
+0.150V
+0.200V
DDR2 VOLATAGE CONTROL..set on.........AUTO
other choices:
+0.05V
+0.15V
+0.20V
+0.25V
all other options in red color
CPU VOLTAGE CONTROL...set on............NORMAL
other choices:
from 1.5500V
to 0.8000V
What do you think, can I squeeze out anything more from that pitiful excuse for a PC I dare to call a computer? Meddling in CPU CLOCK RATIO maybe? Or some voltage tricks?

 

[SPBHM]

what is the memory clock with the OC, I mean check on windows with CPUz or something,

the CR is probably this: 1T/2T COMMAND TIMING 1T

changing to 2 might help, or maybe not.

also check the voltage running windows (again CPUz)

3800+ should be able to go a little higher

but is not going to make a huge difference anyway,

 

[kedolf]

what is the memory clock with the OC,[...]
also check the voltage running windows (again CPUz)
3800+ should be able to go a little higher

Hi there again and thanks so much,
here are some CPU-Z and aida64 screenshots after 6 hr long system stability test. Hope they help.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8tfWk0vzmviVEUwdlZGamJlSm8&usp=sharing

I found some how-to-do OC on 3800+ but it's Dutch to me.
"First, we are simply going to overclock the 3800+ to 4800+ frequencies (2.4GHz). Using a minimum voltage increase (1.4V), setting the HTT to x4, and keeping the memory timings as tight as possible (1:1 @ 2-3-3-6), we&#8217;ll judge the 3800+ in our benchmarks against the $1100 4800+. Then, we&#8217;re going to do the simplest overclock possible, by simply raising the FSB/HTT frequency as high as possible with a 1:1 divider and memory timings of 2.5-3-3-7. 252FSB/HTT frequency was as high as I could stabily go, though that may have been limited by my memory. HTT was left at x4.
I was able to boot up and run benchmarks at a higher frequency, but without having to loosen up the timings so much that it was counterproductive. My idle temps at 2.52GHz were 31C idle and 38C load.
Now, we&#8217;re going to leave the multiplier at its default setting (x10), set the HTT to x3, drop the memory divider to DDR333 (5:6), and raise the v-core to a point where stability is balanced with heat and performance. To me this is usually a point where overclocking stops being productive as small jumps in performance call for a large jump in core voltage, this also is usually accompanied by a spike in both idle temperature and load temperature. At 270 FSB my CPUs temperature idled at 34C, and reached a maximum temperature of 41C under load. As to memory performance, with the memory divider set to 5:6, I had no problem running my memory at
some pretty tight timings of 2-3-2-5 at its default voltage, this gave me an overall memory frequency of 225.1MHz.After making sure that each setting was stable, it was time to move on to some benchmarking. Let&#8217;s take a look at the results from our AMD64 X2 3800+."
and
Recommended BIOS Settings:
**********************
-Disable Cool &#8216;n&#8217; Quiet
-Disable C1E
-Disable Spread Spectrum
-Disable Smart CPU Fan Control
-Manually set Memory Timings
-Windows Power Option: High Performance

 

[SPBHM]

one thing, the guide you found was from a socket 939 Athlon, so it uses DDR1, that's why memory clocks and timings are different,

I noticed from your screenthots that your memory is running at 800 (400x2), was it taken while the CPU was overclocked (2.4)?
if it's the case, and you want to overclock more, you could try lowering the settings in the bios to 533, if you want to keep the memory at the default clock or lower than default (I think it's the best thing to do until you find how high the CPU clock can actually go), also, 1.36v I think is the stock voltage, if your temperatures are not excessive and you feel comfortable with it, a bump to 1.40v or so could help, once you surpass "FSB" 250 I would start worrying about the HT clock again (which you set to 4x), going even lower might help,
also as I said maybe try changing "COMMAND TIMING 1T" to 2T.

but it's working, that's overclocking your 3800+ is now a 4600+

 

[kedolf]

I noticed from your screenthots that your memory is running at 800 (400x2), was it taken while the CPU was overclocked (2.4)

It was taken after the CPU was overclocked and a few minutes after the system stability test. I'm beginning to understand the significance of lowering the mem settings in the bios to 667. I tried 800 at 240 even raising CPU voltage to 1.4V and the whole thing died restarting. I just had this notion that faster mem translates into faster system so I don't understand why it is more beneficial to have a faster CPU at the cost of slower mem than the other way around. Now about the temps I know as much as my dog knows about the Moon so I'm hopelessly lost here. How can I determine what temps are not excessive and when should I start feeling uncomfortable with it if they happen to be excessive? Is there a margin of error or some kind of timeframe before my CPU starts frying?

 

[SPBHM]

It was taken after the CPU was overclocked and a few minutes after the system stability test. I'm beginning to understand the significance of lowering the mem settings in the bios to 667. I tried 800 at 240 even raising CPU voltage to 1.4V and the whole thing died restarting. I just had this notion that faster mem translates into faster system so I don't understand why it is more beneficial to have a faster CPU at the cost of slower mem than the other way around. Now about the temps I know as much as my dog knows about the Moon so I'm hopelessly lost here. How can I determine what temps are not excessive and when should I start feeling uncomfortable with it if they happen to be excessive? Is there a margin of error or some kind of timeframe before my CPU starts frying?

the thing is, on AM2 CPUs, when you overclock the CPU speed/FSB you also overclock the memory, so what I'm telling you to do is change the memory:CPU ratio, so when you increase the CPU clock you are still under or at the default memory clock, and the reason is stability (same reason why you need to lower the HT from 5x to 4x or even lower), memory OC should be tested later imo, and it's probably not worth it anyway, there is a possible gain, but some memories OC really badly... so at this point is better to isolate just the CPU/"FSB" as cause of instability, and not also memory,

temperature on AMD CPUs is really hard to understand, the sensors information is not that clear, the maximum specs also, on the pictures you posted I can see one core at 55 max temp, so at this point I wouldn't be to worried about increasing the temperature a little more, if you can trust that number,

 

[KingFatty]

Isolate the two part: CPU overclock and Memory overclock.

You seem to be trying to overclock both at the same time. So when you become unstable, you have no idea which aspect is holding you back.

Ideally, you will just pick one, and find its highest overclock, and then move on to the other, and independently find its highest, and then combine them.

So I'd suggest starting with the CPU, and just turn down the settings for the memory to ridiculously low values so you safely ensure that the memory never approaches instability.

Memory will happily run below it's rated settings, and you are stuck with the constraint that increasing the frequency for the CPU will affect memory, so that's why you turn down the memory settings. This is not intuitive because you have to choose a memory setting that makes no sense based on how it's labeled by the BIOS, but that's just because the BIOS is lazy in how it refers to a memory setting, without explicitly stating that really it's just a multiple of the frequency, and not really the actual label they assign it, so the actual values will deviate from the convenient labels in the BIOS as you overclock the frequency.