Need help with new gaming and allround PC

[T0bias]

Hi,

I am about to buy a new gaming/allround PC and I am quite a bit in doubt about some of the components. So far I have considered the following:

CPU: Intel i5-4670k
CPU-cooler: Corsair H100i or H110
Motherboard: Asus Maximus Hero
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 2x4 GB 1600 MHz (CML8GX3M2A1600C9R)
Graphics card: MSI GeForce 760 2GB (Twin Frozr IV)
PSU: Corsair RM650 or Seasonic G-650
SSD; Intel 530 Series 180 GB
HDD; WD Blue 1TB (WD10EZEX)
Case: Corsair 750D or 550D – or maybe Antec P280
Optical drive: Lite-On iHAS324

I’m mainly in doubt about the case and cpu cooler, and a bit about PSU as well.

I’d like my computer to be quiet, but I don’t want to run into problems with too much heat. I quite like the design and features of the 750D, but I don’t know how loud it will be compared with a Corsair 550D or Antec P280? I won’t be able to block the top vent off (I will place the H100i or H110 here), so I guess some of the noise dampening of the 550D is lost due to this.

As for the cooler I am not sure if I should go with an H100i or H110. I see that the H100i got some inbuilt Corsair Link stuff, but I’d actually like to avoid this and just control the fans with the motherboard, just to keep it simple – but then I should perhaps go with the H110 as it doesn’t have this Corsair Link? They are identically priced where I live.

Finally the PSU, do you think this will be ok for this system? Would you go with Corsair or Seasonic (the Seasonic is more expensive and not fully modular though)? Would it be enough if I later went for another 760 for SLI (not very likely though)?

I hope someone can help me out a bit, thanks in advance

 

[Cerb]

1. Why any CLC?
2. Why not a ~250GB SSD, instead?
3. Just get the Seasonic.

 

[T0bias]

Thanks for replying

1. The reason why I don't want a traditional air cooler is that I am quite happy with the H100 that I got in my work pc. I really like its compactness and easy installation, and I feel more safe transporting my pc around if I need that. I know they are more expensive without really cooling much better, but avoiding a giant air cooler is worth it for me

2. I think they're getting a bit too expensive, and 250 GB might be a bit too little if I skip out on a HDD for extra storage.

3. Why do you think the Seasonic is better? I'm actually leaning towards the RM650 since its fully modular (nice if I need to swap out the psu for some reason), and a bit cheaper too.

Do you have any comments as to what case I should get?

 

[Cerb]

2. A 240-256GB from Crucial, Samsung, Sandisk, or Toshiba costs about the same as the 180GB from Intel. A couple places have had the Intel on sale for $125, but I wouldn't expect that to stay around, as Intel tends to be awfully proud of their SSDs.

3. If you want modular, then sure.

 

[lehtv]

As always... http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=80121

 

[mfenn]

1. The reason why I don't want a traditional air cooler is that I am quite happy with the H100 that I got in my work pc. I really like its compactness and easy installation, and I feel more safe transporting my pc around if I need that. I know they are more expensive without really cooling much better, but avoiding a giant air cooler is worth it for me

An H100 is a lot of things, but compact it ain't. The radiator+fan assembly alone is about the same volume as a Hyper 212+, and that's not counting the hoses and waterblock+pump assembly.

 

[T0bias]

Sorry for not following that in detail - I thought I had given the most relevant information in my first post

1: The PC will be used for general stuff/work and gaming.
2-3: I’m from Denmark and the price of the parts I listed is converted to around 1800 usd, which is about the maximum amount I want to spend.
4: I don’t know where I will buy the parts exactly, it is going to be various Danish shops.
5: I have a preference for Intel and Nvidia.
6: I won’t be using any old parts, all is going to be new.
7: I am not planning on doing any overclocking right now, but maybe later - in any case I’d like to have a good cpu cooler so I wouldn’t have to switch it if I want to do some overclocking.
8: I will use 1920*1080, at least for quite a while.
9: I will order and build it as soon as I am sure about all the parts, and I don’t need to purchase Windows (already got a license).

Regarding the H100 and similar coolers I guess I just don’t agree with the way you define compact I think it results in a much cleaner look around the cpu socket. I know the radiator and fans occupies quite some space - but it’s all hidden in the top of the case where it doesn’t really bother me - as opposed to a big air cooler which potentially blocks or limits access to memory slots or other things - which I find a bit annoying

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Motherboard: Asus Maximus Hero

Is there some particular reason to go with that? You can get a very good board for half the price and for gaming that money is much better spent on the graphics card...

Indeed if you aren't going to overclock anyway, you can get a H87 board with 95% of the features even cheaper.

 

[T0bias]

Is there some particular reason to go with that? You can get a very good board for half the price and for gaming that money is much better spent on the graphics card...

Indeed if you aren't going to overclock anyway, you can get a H87 board with 95% of the features even cheaper.

First of all I thought I'd just go with Z87 as the price for the cheaper ATX models of H87 and Z87 were basically the same - and then I did some research on Z87 boards and found that Asus was often recommended (I have had plenty Asus motherboards myself - and I also have that in my other work PC).

On the danish store www.komplett.dk the cheapest Z87 Asus motherboard (ATX) was the Z87-K (other manufacturers seems to be similarly priced) - but I couldn't find that much info on the Z87-K and I thought it might be a good idea to spend a little bit extra on the motherboard to get a bit higher quality overall, and thus maybe be more safe that I'll get a solid motherboard.

Of all the parts, I think it's quite a hassle if I have any issues with the motherboard and it needs to be replaced. And I could find more information and good reviews about the Hero so I guess that is why I considered to buy it

Regarding overclocking I may not do anything now (most likely I wont need it to run the games I need sufficiently), but later I may want to try it - at least it would be nice to have the option.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

On the danish store www.komplett.dk the cheapest Z87 Asus motherboard (ATX) was the Z87-K (other manufacturers seems to be similarly priced) - but I couldn't find that much info on the Z87-K and I thought it might be a good idea to spend a little bit extra on the motherboard to get a bit higher quality overall, and thus maybe be more safe that I'll get a solid motherboard.

For reliability you could also look at the ASUS GRYPHON. Its mATX, but unless you're planning some exotic quad-SLI/quad-Crossfire in the future, ATX is a bit redundant.

The build quality of boards have improved tremendously over the last ~10 years. Apart from features and power delivery circuitry there isn't much difference in build quality today. Also every manufacturer has their ups and downs. If you stick with ASUS, Gigabyte and Asrock you cant go completely wrong. The trick is getting a board with an "enthusiast" BIOS, but without all the bells-and-whistles of the more expensive models.

As for shopping, check proshop.dk and computersalg.dk, perhaps fcomputer.dk too. fcomputer are a bit on the expensive side, but sometimes has good deals.

 

[mfenn]

2-3: I’m from Denmark and the price of the parts I listed is converted to around 1800 usd, which is about the maximum amount I want to spend.

What's your budget in euros? Giving a budget in dollars doesn't really help because I don't know if you did a straight conversion or applied compensating factors (tax differences, etc).

On the danish store www.komplett.dk the cheapest Z87 Asus motherboard (ATX) was the Z87-K (other manufacturers seems to be similarly priced) - but I couldn't find that much info on the Z87-K and I thought it might be a good idea to spend a little bit extra on the motherboard to get a bit higher quality overall, and thus maybe be more safe that I'll get a solid motherboard.

Of all the parts, I think it's quite a hassle if I have any issues with the motherboard and it needs to be replaced. And I could find more information and good reviews about the Hero so I guess that is why I considered to buy it

I agree with Insert_Nickname. Expecting a more expensive board to have a lower DOA rate or increased reliability is wrong. All the boards are built on the same assembly lines by the same workers, the only difference is what components get soldered on.

 

[T0bias]

mfenn: It's just a straight conversion, it would translate to around 1350 +/- euros.

Insert_nickname:
Thanks for your suggestions - I do know these shops, and I will check out where I can get the components cheaper, but Komplett is pretty good for having a 45 days return as opposed to the usual 14 days

Did you have any specific models in mind instead of the Maximus Hero? Though I see that the Maximus Hero is actually supposed to have pretty good onboard sound. I was planning at some point to get a decent soundcard - but maybe I could save that if I went with the Hero?

I did consider getting an mATX board and a smaller case. A smaller case would be ok, but nothing that important - I'm probably not going to transport my PC around that much - I'd probably prefer having good space inside when building the PC.

By the way I am sorry for my late reply, but I wasn't able to reply sooner

 

[mfenn]

The problem with the Maximus Hero is that takes money away from the rest of the build while providing little to no benefit. If you want good sound, you are far better off taking some money out of the PC build and putting it towards a good DAC or receiver. Then you run S/PDIF or HDMI to the external component and do D/A there.

Here's what I would recommend for a gaming PC on a 10,000 DKK budget:

i5 4670K 1600 DKK
GA-Z87X-D3H 970 DKK
Crucial DDR3 1600 8GB 550 DKK
ASUS GTX 780 3500 DKK
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 1200 DKK
WD Blue 1TB 450 DKK
Lite-ON DVD Burner 170 DKK
XFX XXX 650W 650 DKK - built by Seasonic
Fractal Design R4 740 DKK
Noctua U12P 525 DKK
Total: 10,355 DKK

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Here's what I would recommend for a gaming PC on a 10,000 DKK budget:

i5 4670K 1600 DKK
GA-Z87X-D3H 970 DKK
Crucial DDR3 1600 8GB 550 DKK
ASUS GTX 780 3500 DKK
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 1200 DKK
WD Blue 1TB 450 DKK
Lite-ON DVD Burner 170 DKK
XFX XXX 650W 650 DKK - built by Seasonic
Fractal Design R4 740 DKK
Noctua U12P 525 DKK
Total: 10,355 DKK

I have no reservations recommending this build. Its very good in fact. An option would be to step the graphics card down a notch to a 770. It'll cost 2GB RAM, but is 1171 DKK cheaper, so its a trade-off.

http://www.komplett.dk/asus-geforce-gtx-770-2gb-physx-cuda/781952

Insert_nickname:
Thanks for your suggestions - I do know these shops, and I will check out where I can get the components cheaper, but Komplett is pretty good for having a 45 days return as opposed to the usual 14 days

Now there is something we can agree on...

 

[T0bias]

Many thanks for your suggestion

I do think I will stick with the H100i because I find such a cooler more convenient – but you have made me consider spending some extra money for the 780 (I did actually change my mind from my original post and thought I would go with a 770).

Are there any specific reasons that you picked the Gigabyte over for example the Asus Z87-A? I have looked at the specs and it seems like one difference is that the Gigabyte has Intel I217V LAN adapter and the Asus got Realtek RTL8111GR. It seems like Intel is generally recommended as the best, but on the other hand it also seems that there aren’t any real differences for gaming? What do you think?

Another thing I was thinking about is that if I went with a 780, I would skip the ability to get another one for SLI later, because of the increased price of the 780 vs. the 770, but also because my PSU would probably not be able to handle two 780 (but should be ok with two 770)?

 

[lehtv]

Instead of the H100i I would get H90. Performs the same, makes less noise, and takes up only one top 140mm slot. Costs less too: http://www.komplett.dk/corsair-h90-hydro-series-cpu-kler/776903 649 DKK

The 780 is worse performance per cost than the 770, so I'd rather get the 770 and upgrade it sooner than I would upgrade the 780. After all this is only for 1080p @60hz, not 1080p @120hz or 1440p.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Are there any specific reasons that you picked the Gigabyte over for example the Asus Z87-A? I have looked at the specs and it seems like one difference is that the Gigabyte has Intel I217V LAN adapter and the Asus got Realtek RTL8111GR. It seems like Intel is generally recommended as the best, but on the other hand it also seems that there aren’t any real differences for gaming? What do you think?

Either is "good enough" for "home" use. I doubt if you'll ever notice any performance difference.

I personally prefer Intel NICs when given the choice, but that is more force of habit from the past. I have an RTL8168 in my HTPC for example.

Another thing I was thinking about is that if I went with a 780, I would skip the ability to get another one for SLI later, because of the increased price of the 780 vs. the 770, but also because my PSU would probably not be able to handle two 780 (but should be ok with two 770)?

The answer to that leads though lehtv's post...

The 780 is worse performance per cost than the 770, so I'd rather get the 770 and upgrade it sooner than I would upgrade the 780. After all this is only for 1080p @60hz, not 1080p @120hz or 1440p.

This is what you should do. I really don't recommend bothering with SLI/Crossfire unless you seek extreme performance, have a high resolution (1440p and above) monitor or a 120Hz one. You'll get much better mileage out of the single 770 now, saving the cash and upgrading when Maxwell or its successor is released.

 

[T0bias]

More options to consider

I haven’t really thought about the H90 – but it does look quite nice, but it would probably have to be mounted as exhaust on the rear if I went with the Define R4 right? Wouldn’t the tubes possibly hit the graphicscard in this way?

I have been reading some reviews and it seems like it is more noisy than the low mode of H100i, but much more quiet than full speed of the H100i – do you know how low RPM it could run at if I connected it to a motherboard fan header and controlling it through the bios?

It seems to be a bit more difficult to install it than the H100i though, but I guess it should be ok, and I loose Corsair Link, but that's probably not a too big deal if the fans can be controlled fine with the motherbooard.

Regarding the graphics card, in fact I do have a 144Hz monitor, but I don't think a lower framerate in some of the demanding games would be too much of a problem for me - as long as I have high fps in CS:GO which definitely won't be a problem with any graphics card I end up choosing

 

[lehtv]

I haven’t really thought about the H90 – but it does look quite nice, but it would probably have to be mounted as exhaust on the rear if I went with the Define R4 right? Wouldn’t the tubes possibly hit the graphicscard in this way?

No I don't think that would be a problem. See this review on amazon.co.uk:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2TV...etail-glance&nodeID=340831031&store=computers

I have been reading some reviews and it seems like it is more noisy than the low mode of H100i, but much more quiet than full speed of the H100i – do you know how low RPM it could run at if I connected it to a motherboard fan header and controlling it through the bios?

According to eTeknix the PWM range is 800-1500RPM. It's not going to be completely quiet even at 800 RPM, if it were me I'd replace it to bring it down to the same lowest RPM as the default case fans at 5V. Usually you can get BeQuiet! fans in Europe, but komplett doesn't have them so a Noctua A14 would be a fine replacement.

To use the fan in PWM mode you need a board with two PWM fan headers - the pump uses the main CPU fan header. The Z87X-D3H has only one 4-pin CPU fan header and three 3-pin case fan headers, so if you get a liquid cooler and want to use PWM fans, I would recommend MSI Z87 G45 Gaming (which also has a better audio chip than Z87X-D3H).

Regarding the graphics card, in fact I do have a 144Hz monitor, but I don't think a lower framerate in some of the demanding games would be too much of a problem for me - as long as I have high fps in CS:GO which definitely won't be a problem with any graphics card I end up choosing

That makes sense. For me the high refresh rate is most important for Quake Live, but in other games, I don't mind sub 100 fps or even 60 fps.

 

[mfenn]

I have no reservations recommending this build. Its very good in fact. An option would be to step the graphics card down a notch to a 770. It'll cost 2GB RAM, but is 1171 DKK cheaper, so its a trade-off.

http://www.komplett.dk/asus-geforce-gtx-770-2gb-physx-cuda/781952

Agree completely. In fact, I had the 770 in there originally but saw that it could barely stretch to the 780, so I put it in.

 

[mfenn]

Are there any specific reasons that you picked the Gigabyte over for example the Asus Z87-A? I have looked at the specs and it seems like one difference is that the Gigabyte has Intel I217V LAN adapter and the Asus got Realtek RTL8111GR. It seems like Intel is generally recommended as the best, but on the other hand it also seems that there aren’t any real differences for gaming? What do you think?

The GigE NIC doesn't really matter in a gaming PC. You lose so much performance from the relatively high-latency and unreliable global network known as "The Internet" that saving a few microseconds at the NIC does not matter in the slightest.

 

[T0bias]

Thanks again I guess I won't have to worry about the NIC then

I am not completely sure about the H90 though, as it does seem like the H100i has a much nicer mounting, and generally seems to be a bit newer in design with thicker tubes - seems like the quality is a notch higher overall on the H100i. I’m also thinking that it’s better that the pump is connected directly to the PSU on the H100i as opposed to the H90 where it is only connected to the cpu fan header – but maybe that’s just me

I also saw a test where they compared H90 and H100i, both using Noctua fans, and here the H100i was 5 degrees better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEdjLXf_2rk).

 

[lehtv]

I also saw a test where they compared H90 and H100i, both using Noctua fans, and here the H100i was 5 degrees better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEdjLXf_2rk).

I didn't see a chart there in the normal push configuration, only in pull configuration. While you would probably expect the same difference in performance in push as in pull configuration, the reviews I've read don't show that kind of a difference per the same dBa. What they do show is that H100i at maximum both performs better and makes a ton more noise, while at the lowest setting the H100i performs worse while making the same amount of noise

 

[T0bias]

I didn't see a chart there in the normal push configuration, only in pull configuration. While you would probably expect the same difference in performance in push as in pull configuration, the reviews I've read don't show that kind of a difference per the same dBa. What they do show is that H100i at maximum both performs better and makes a ton more noise, while at the lowest setting the H100i performs worse while making the same amount of noise

What do you mean when you say its in push or pull configuration? Are you referring to which side of the radiator it's placed (but with the fan facing the same direction)?

I just saw that Corsair recommends that the H90 is installed as intake, which makes sense, but isn't that a little strange to have an intake in the rear? Then I'd have no exhaust at all unless I installed fans in the top of the case (or the H90). I saw a test (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/water2.0-extreme-kraken-x40-hydro-h90-elc120,3434-13.html) where there is a quite significant difference in cooling performance between intake and exhaust on the H90.

I also just saw a new Coolermaster case, Silencio 652 (http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/case/mid-tower-silent-series/silencio652.html) - this looks really nice I think - and it's cheap, but I can't really find much information about it - do you have any knowledge about this case?

 

[sm625]

I have two machines with 40GB SSDs, two with 64GB, and two with 128GB. None have been hard to manage, nor has the process been time consuming. One machine has run completely out of disk space 3 times but its no big deal. Usually there is a huge 1-2GB video somewhere or something really obvious. 180GB is plenty.