Need help with my new build please.

[renaldtao3]

Hi everyone. I'm looking to build my first gaming rig. I have experience installing new hardware and components, but never a PC from the ground up. I've been researching hardware for several weeks now. I've come up with a setup I feel pretty good about but unsure of a few things. They're gaming related so to be honest I'm not sure if this is an appropriate forum for that but I figured I'd give it a shot.

1. I will be using a 19" widescreen LCD. 1440x900 native res. I have to go with that size, I'm in an apartment with a computer armoire! I chose the Samsung 932BW.

2. I'll be playing FPSs like Crysis, COD4, Bioshock, HalfLife etc.

3. Budget: around $2500

4. Here's the list:

ZALMAN Z-MACHINE GT1000-B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower High End Computer Case - Retail
Model #: GT1000-B
$399.99 -$15.00 Instant $384.99

1 EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: 122-CK-NF68-A1
Mail-in Rebate
$229.99 $229.99

1 EVGA 512-P3-N802-AR GeForce 8800GT Superclocked 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #: 512-P3-N802-AR
$259.99 $259.99

1 PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Black) EPS12V 750W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: Silencer 750 Quad BK
$249.99 -$80.00 Instant $169.99

1 Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail
Model #: BX80562Q6600
$277.99 $277.99

1 CORSAIR Dominator 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-8500C5D - Retail
Model #: TWIN2X2048-8500C5D
$193.00 -$15.00 Instant $178.00

1 Western Digital Raptor X WD1500AHFDRTL 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - Retail
Model #: WD1500AHFDRTL
$189.99 $189.99

1 RAZER Tarantula Black USB Standard Ultimate Gaming Keyboard - Retail
Model #: RZ03-00070100-R2U1
$99.99 -$20.00 Instant $79.99

1 RAZER Copperhead Tempest RZ01-00050100-R1M1 Blue 7 Buttons 1 x Wheel Gold plated USB Laser Engine Gaming Mouse - Retail
Model #: RZ01-00050100-R1M1
$78.99 -$12.00 Instant $66.99

1 LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model LH-20A1S - Retail
Model #: LH-20A1S
$34.99 $34.99

1 LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DH-16D2P-08 - Retail
Model #: DH-16D2P-08
$17.99 $17.99

1 Creative 70SB046A00000 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series - Retail
Model #: 70SB046A00000
$135.99 $135.99

1 Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
Model #: 66I-00715
$109.99 $109.99

1 ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler - Retail
Model #: CNPS 9700 NT
$79.99 -$20.00 Instant $59.99

1 Logitech Z-2300 200 watts RMS 2.1 Speaker System - Retail
Model #: 970118-0403
$105.99 $105.99

Long list, sorry. My questions are these:

1. I'm iffy about whether or not I need 1066 Dominator RAM, EVGA says the mobo supports up to 1200 but then I here lots of mentions about 800 being the way to go.

2. The graphics card: I've been debating three opptions, 1x 880GT OC, 2x 8800GT in SLI (I'm not sure I want to mess with SLI, especially that I've been reading its mostly useful in bigger res. screens?), or 1x GTX. Will I make good use of a GTX with that screen? Iv'e seen what Crysis looks like on that screen with an 8800GT OC, it looked damn good. My goal with a GTX would be to be able to set graphics settings like AA and AF higher.

3. I would just love to get ANY kind of feedback or suggestions, even if you don't know about my first two questions. I hope I didn't make this all too confusing. Thanks!

 

[MegaVovaN]

Hmm....with that big of a budget you can not only build a kickass rig but also upgrade your screen to 22" or 24"....

$400 case? uh-uh. You buy it because it says "High End" in name? Or because it says "GT 1000" ? Maybe because it's made by Zalman and has cool red leds??

Here's my suggestions:

P35 or X38 chipset
4 GB RAM
Cheaper PSU
E8400 for gaming
Vista 64bit

That cooler sucks I hear. Do your homework on CPU cooling, reviews on newegg don't mean jack.


just a thought: If you cut back on unnecessary stuff, $2.5k will buy you TWO computers, one now and second couple years later.
Sounds like you got free money (gift?), didn't do your homework on parts and was guided by FLASHY looks and mindless reviews on newegg, all while to trying to spend all of the money.

 

[renaldtao3]

you're an idiot

 

[renaldtao3]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Hmm....with that big of a budget you can not only build a kickass rig but also upgrade your screen to 22" or 24"....

$400 case? uh-uh. You buy it because it says "High End" in name? Or because it says "GT 1000" ? Maybe because it's made by Zalman and has cool red leds??

Here's my suggestions:

P35 or X38 chipset
4 GB RAM
Cheaper PSU
E8400 for gaming
Vista 64bit

That cooler sucks I hear. Do your homework on CPU cooling, reviews on newegg don't mean jack.


just a thought: If you cut back on unnecessary stuff, $2.5k will buy you TWO computers, one now and second couple years later.
Sounds like you got free money (gift?), didn't do your homework on parts and was guided by FLASHY looks and mindless reviews on newegg, all while to trying to spend all of the money.

Although I asked for help, I didn't ask for anyone to try and lecture me as if they know me.. If you must know, I'm a 28 year old hard working father of a six year old, and am also going to college. The money is not a gift, I'd be using a credit card. I don't feeel I owe you any of this explaining but I'm glad to show you how much of an ass you are, because with the kind of response you gave, you must be full of yourself.
For everyone else in this forum: I stated in the beginning of my post that, I'm new at this, and although I have been researching this hardware for a while, I'm obviously posting because I'm asking for help. I also stated that I already have the screen and must use that size (19") bcause any bigger will not fit in the computer cabinet I have. I'm in an apartment and have no choice. Further more , although this may sound crazy, I chose that case because its the only one I was able to find that's less than 19" deep (again, I need it to fit in my computer armoire). Anyone know of one with that dimension? I could car less about "flashy lights." I,ve been researching these parts online for several weeks now and genuinely thought I may have a nice setup. After making this same post on several different forums, I'm getting good feedback telling me I could probably create an even more effective rig for less money. Any nonjudgemental suggestions would still be greatly appreciated.

 

[DSF]

His feedback may not have been the most tactfully stated, but you don't stand a good chance of attracting more help when you make posts like "you're an idiot."

My first thoughts:

Case: Antec Solo
Newegg doesn't show the dimensions from what I can see, but directron.com lists the case as being 18.5" deep. The Solo is a nice smallish mid-tower case. It has good cooling and is a very quiet case. On sale for $49.99 after rebate with free shipping.

PSU: 520HX
This will have plenty of power for this computer. You don't need 750W. It also has the benefit of modular cabling, which is nice to have in a smaller case like the Solo. (Modular cabling means that the molex, PCI-e and SATA power connectors can be detached from the power supply when not in use, reducing the clutter in the case.)

Video Card: BFG 8800GTS 512MB OR EVGA 8800GTS 512MB
As large as your budget is, and considering the good deals Newegg has on GTS models right now, you may as well go with a GTS over a GT. Both of these companies have lifetime warranties, but EVGA has the added benefit of their "step-up" program. Within 90 days of your purchase, if a new card comes out, you can mail your 8800GTS to EVGA, they'll send you the newer, better card, and you pay the price difference plus shipping.

Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint 500GB Hard Drive
Personally, I wouldn't pay for a Raptor. My brother has one in his gaming rig and loves it, but he also has more money to blow than I do. (He's an electrical engineer, I'm a schoolteacher.) Raptors are still probably the fastest desktop hard drives, but their performance advantage, which used to be large, has shrunk quite a bit. I picked the Samsung because it has the best reputation for low noise. I have one in my rig, and I can't hear it. Ever. That said, any 500GB disk from a good manufacturer is going to be just peachy. (For example, compare the Samsung with the Western Digital Caviar series, and Seagate 7200.11 series.)

As far as optical drives, I would recommend against getting that IDE one you have. If you really want a second drive, get a SATA one. Again, it will help avoid clutter in the smallish case. (SATA cables are much narrower than IDE cables.)

Keyboard: Logitech G15
Let me state up front that I have no personal experience with this keyboard, although I've heard good things about it. I'm putting it here simply because it's a good deal on a high-end gaming keyboard. You might want to research this one and the Razer, and see what you like best.

Mouse: Logitech G7 Cordless Mouse
Again, mice and keyboards are largely a matter of personal preference. It might not be a bad idea to go down to Best Buy or Circuit City and see what feels best to you. That said, it sounds like you're working on a somewhat cramped desk, and it might not be a bad idea to have a cordless mouse. I use the G7, which comes with two batteries and a charger so you're never out of power. I'm very happy with it.

Speakers aren't my area of knowledge, so I have no advice there. I use a set of Plantronics headphones when I game, and it's good enough for me. I don't claim to be an audiophile.

About OEM operating systems - As far as I know, you will only be able to install an OEM version of Vista on one machine. Once you put this machine out to pasture and build a new one, you'll have to buy a new OS disk. (I could be wrong about this, so get confirmation from someone else.) That may not matter to you, but if it does you'll want to spend a bit more on the operating system and get a full version. Also, if you're going to get Vista, you may as well get the 64-bit version and buy 4GB of RAM.

Hope that wasn't too much to throw at you all at once. You probably noticed that I didn't mention anything about the CPU, motherboard, RAM, or CPU cooler. Are you planning to overclock? That will influence your decisions.

The other thing is that games don't make good use of four cores right now. Unless you use multithreaded applications like video encoding or raytracing, you're probably best served by a dual-core chip right now. With your budget, if you go dual core, I would be looking at the Intel E8400.

 

[renaldtao3]

Originally posted by: DSF
His feedback may not have been the most tactfully stated, but you don't stand a good chance of attracting more help when you make posts like "you're an idiot."

I agree, I was frustrated and replied impulsively. Sorry to everyone.

 

[renaldtao3]

Thanks for the gret feedback. I've posted on several forums and have been getting very similar suggestions. Sounds like I can make a more effective rig for way less money.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: renaldtao3
Thanks for the gret feedback. I've posted on several forums and have been getting very similar suggestions. Sounds like I can make a more effective rig for way less money.

You definitely can. Don't forget to answer the questions at the bottom of my post about what you plan to use the computer for besides gaming, and whether you're willing to overclock.

Edit: Oh, and since this is your first ground-up build, you might want to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEOd7nQbuQ

It's just the installation procedure for Intel Socket 775 CPUs. Nothing to complicated about installing a processor, but it set my mind at ease before I installed a CPU for the first time. Didn't want to get nervous and forget something while handling $100+ equipment.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: renaldtao3

Originally posted by: DSF
His feedback may not have been the most tactfully stated, but you don't stand a good chance of attracting more help when you make posts like "you're an idiot."

I agree, I was frustrated and replied impulsively. Sorry to everyone.

:thumbsup: :beer:

 

[Roguestar]

Most of the things in that list smack of overkill, but in the right ballpark. MegaVovaN's list of suggestions was actually very good.

Some pointers:
Don't buy a factory overclocked graphics card, you're paying them for something you can do yourself.
You'll notice a much bigger difference in performance by getting a standard SATA hard drive and spending the money saved on the Raptor on a better graphics card such as the AMD 3870x2.
That RAM you have listed is too expensive for what you're getting. Get whichever DDR2-800 is cheapest, otherwise you'll be wasting money.
Consider if you really need a quad-core chip. Professional 3D rendering = yes, "multitasking" = no. Consider an E8400 CPU instead.
That power supply is a bit big and expensive, even if good quality. The Corsair 520HX or a Seasonic 450W would do just as well. The HX is modular too.
I'd personally get a P35 motherboard if I weren't using SLI because that's usually the main reason for getting a 680i board.

 

[renaldtao3]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

I'd personally get a P35 motherboard if I weren't using SLI because that's usually the main reason for getting a 680i board.

I chose this one (A1 version) because of its overclocking features. It's something I'd like to do with the Q6600. For a nub like myself, it seemed like overclocking using the software provided with that board would be more helpful to me. Am I way off?

 

[renaldtao3]

Originally posted by: DSF
You definitely can. Don't forget to answer the questions at the bottom of my post about what you plan to use the computer for besides gaming, and whether you're willing to overclock.

Mostly gaming and internet use. School work ,bills etc. Yes, I would really like to try overclocking the CPU, thats why I would get DDR2 800. I want to go with XMS2 but I see that there are such differences in in prices as far as latency and timings. I'm a bit confused, can anyone shed some light?

 

[DSF]

For gaming/general use, you're not going to see any benefit out of a quad-core processor. (You might see a tiny benefit in certain games such as Supreme Commander, but honestly not very much.)

680i boards are not as good at overclocking quad-cores as P35 boards. Especially since you're overclocking, you should really look at dropping the SLI board for a regular P35 one.

 

[imported_wired247]

Originally posted by: renaldtao3

Originally posted by: DSF
You definitely can. Don't forget to answer the questions at the bottom of my post about what you plan to use the computer for besides gaming, and whether you're willing to overclock.

Mostly gaming and internet use. School work ,bills etc. Yes, I would really like to try overclocking the CPU, thats why I would get DDR2 800. I want to go with XMS2 but I see that there are such differences in in prices as far as latency and timings. I'm a bit confused, can anyone shed some light?

for all intents and purposes, most real life applications of DDR2 ram you will not always see a ton of difference between tighter 4-4-4-12 timings and 5-5-5-15 timings, but you will generally always see a significant performance boost when you go with higher FSB.

(at least, from studying benchmarks for a few good hours, this is what I came up with)


the thing is, yes, you may see a small difference in performance with low latency RAM, however -- it is usually more expensive by a disproportionate amount. so if you are getting 1-3 FPS improvement, for $100-150 more, you have to decide whether that's worth it to you.

If I was buying RAM all over again I'd probably go for a nice 2x2GB kit with 5-5-5-15 timings. right now I have 5-5-5-18, not sure if that's much worse but whatever


As far as hard drives go, raptors are a popular choice, but keep in mind that the newer "perpendicular recording" hard drives sometimes have a higher data throughput than the raptors, even at 7200rpm.

 

[chinaman1472]

I see no reason for you to pick up the sound card if you only plan on getting a 2.1 speaker setup. Onboard sound will probably do you just fine. If you're adamant about getting the sound card, I suggest picking up a decent 5.1 speaker setup, because it's well within your budget and you might as well take advantage of the money you're spending. The Klipsch Promedia 5.1 is a top notch choice if you can find them.

IMO, save yourself the $136 bucks.

 

[renaldtao3]

Originally posted by: DSF
For gaming/general use, you're not going to see any benefit out of a quad-core processor. (You might see a tiny benefit in certain games such as Supreme Commander, but honestly not very much.)

680i boards are not as good at overclocking quad-cores as P35 boards. Especially since you're overclocking, you should really look at dropping the SLI board for a regular P35 one.

Can you recommend a good P35?

 

[Doclife]

My vote for the P35 board is the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R. It has excellent on-board sound, 8 USB ports, highly overclockable, high quality built and Gigabyte continually improves its BIOS on a regular basis.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: renaldtao3

Originally posted by: DSF
For gaming/general use, you're not going to see any benefit out of a quad-core processor. (You might see a tiny benefit in certain games such as Supreme Commander, but honestly not very much.)

680i boards are not as good at overclocking quad-cores as P35 boards. Especially since you're overclocking, you should really look at dropping the SLI board for a regular P35 one.

Can you recommend a good P35?

Doclife's recommendation is a good one. I'm using a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L. Similar to the one Doclife recommended, but a slightly lower model. Mine only has four SATA ports and the onboard sound isn't quite as good. (Good enough for me though.) Both are very overclockable.

 

[PolymerTim]

I think this used to be a good argument, but DDR2 prices are so low these days that you might as well go with CAS4. For example, here is a good 2x2GB (DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 @ 2.2V) kit going for only $93 after rebate. There's a lot of good RAM out there, but this one just caught my eye recently.

I agree with chinaman about the speakers, except I wonder if you have room for them since you have limited space. The DS3R is said to have very good on-board sound so I think I would do without the sound card.

I second the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R that Doclife suggested and would also recommend the Abit IP-35Pro since its uGuru software is supposed to be very helpful for overclocking.

About OEM Windows, I have heard the same as DSF. I believe the way it works is that once OEM software is installed on a machine, it is married to that machine for life. If you buy a retail version, you will at least be able to uninstall it from an older machine and reinstall it on a newer one. This doesn't matter to everyone, so just make sure you realize what you're getting.

From what I've read, there are a few good CPU coolers you may want to consider. If you want a mild overclock, it is hard to beat the value of the Arctic Freezer 7 Pro at below $25. If you want top performance, it should still easily fit into your budget in the $50-$80 range. Top performers to consider are the Tunique 120 and the Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme (aka TRUE). Note that some of these coolers do not come with a fan so it needs to be bought separately. This review by anandtech should give you a feel for them. Check out the curves under load and see the temperatures in overclock conditions.

As for your limited space, maybe you could give some dimensions like HxWxD for the space for your monitor and your case. Someone might know of other options that still fit. Good luck with your build!

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: renaldtao3

Originally posted by: Roguestar

I'd personally get a P35 motherboard if I weren't using SLI because that's usually the main reason for getting a 680i board.

I chose this one (A1 version) because of its overclocking features. It's something I'd like to do with the Q6600. For a nub like myself, it seemed like overclocking using the software provided with that board would be more helpful to me. Am I way off?

Overclocking a Core 2 is so, so easy that you don't need to worry about it. It can literally be just a case of turning power on, going into BIOS and setting the FSB to (for example) 400MHz, then booting up as normal and running a few stability tests on it. Then you can tweak other stuff later if you want.