Need help with MSI HD 7950 VS Gigabyte GTX 670 (Open Box)

[markyd]

Most of the community here expects more consideration than this.

Posting "it's a better card" has little value without additional criteria to back up the claim that X is in fact a better card. It is clear you "feel" the 670 is the better card, but why and does your why matter in a meaningful way to the OP?

Heres a recent benchmark from june , outdoing a 680. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-gigabyte-gtx-670-windforce-oc-review-19.html
Not only this, but you get NVIDIA, not AMD.

 

[Silverforce11]

Here's an even more recent benchmark, again for you to understand.

Now imagine a 7950 @ 1.2ghz, a 50% OC from 800 core default. You can add 40% extra performance to the above graph.

Figure it out yourself. Hint, its been shown to be much faster than the 7970 GE and even beating the gtx590.

BF3 and NV's non-existant lead:

Clock for clock 7950 is a few % slower than a 7970, similar to the 670 vs 680.

 

[RussianSensation]

im not being a nvidia fanboy. Moreover, it shouldnt be denied that nvidia has better relations with big gaming hits, just look at bf3 and blizzard games.

Even a GTX560Ti is fast for any Blizzard game. You are looking at > 100 fps with either the 7950 or 670.

I seriously don't understand why people keep talking about like Blizzard games need a $300+ GPU.

Also, I would have recommended the OP get the Gigabyte Windforce 3x for $374 with free shipping but he said for tax reasons and preference he only wants to buy at Amazon.

Finally, the 7950 doesn't have many problems with BF3, and it is true that an overclocked 670 will easily beat the 7950 in that game:

At the same time the 670 doesn't do well in Dirt Showdown, Sniper Elite v2, Anno 2070, Bulletstorm, Metro 2033, Crysis 1/Warhead, Skyrim + ENB Mods, Batman AC + 8AA, Serious Sam 3, Sleeping Dogs. That's a lot of games where an overclocked 7950 would beat it in. So we can't just use BF3 as the end-all-be-all game.

Not only this, but you get NVIDIA, not AMD.

OK. Does a cute Asian girl come with the NV card? That might push me over next round.

 

[Attic]

Heres a recent benchmark from june , outdoing a 680. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-gigabyte-gtx-670-windforce-oc-review-19.html
Not only this, but you get NVIDIA, not AMD.

Nice OC results there for the 670. The 7950 when put in the same light, OC'd, beats a 680 as well. This is why the 7950 is considered such an incredible buy for ~$320.

 

[markyd]

Here's an even more recent benchmark, again for you to understand.

Now imagine a 7950 @ 1.2ghz, a 50% OC from 800 core default. You can add 40% extra performance to the above graph.

Figure it out yourself. Hint, its been shown to be much faster than the 7970 GE and even beating the gtx590.

BF3 and NV's non-existant lead:

Clock for clock 7950 is a few % slower than a 7970, similar to the 670 vs 680.

Non existent lead? Youre showing me a 680 beating a 7970 lol and good job comparing a reference 680 beating a 7970 ghz edition and then using a gigabyte 7970 that is overclocked to beat a 680, completely ignoring that a 680 cant overclock either. And then realizing that we are comparing a 670 to a 7950 of which a 670 can easily overclock to beat a 680, many pre overclocked cards do, something you cant say the same for a 7950.

 

[Silverforce11]

Non existent lead? Youre showing me a 680 beating a 7970 lol and good job comparing a reference 680 beating a 7970 ghz edition and then using a gigabyte 7970 that is overclocked to beat a 680, completely ignoring that a 680 cant overclock either. And then realizing that we are comparing a 670 to a 7950 of which a 670 can easily overclock to beat a 680, many pre overclocked cards do, something you cant say the same for a 7950.

Are you stupid?? That's an OC gtx680 vs OC 7970. The second is just another example to confirm that the 7970 OC does get ~80 fps, confirming the first review.

 

[markyd]

Are you stupid?? That's an OC gtx680 vs OC 7970. The second is just another example to confirm that the 7970 OC does get ~80 fps, confirming the first review.

Are you fucking stupid? Can you show me where the lead for the 7970 OC IS ?



Profanity is not allowed in our tech subforums.

esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[markyd]

Even a GTX560Ti is fast for any Blizzard game. You are looking at > 100 fps with either the 7950 or 670.

I seriously don't understand why people keep talking about like Blizzard games need a $300+ GPU.

Also, I would have recommended the OP get the Gigabyte Windforce 3x for $374 with free shipping but he said for tax reasons and preference he only wants to buy at Amazon.

Finally, the 7950 doesn't have many problems with BF3, and it is true that an overclocked 670 will easily beat the 7950 in that game:

At the same time the 670 doesn't do well in Dirt Showdown, Sniper Elite v2, Anno 2070, Bulletstorm, Metro 2033, Crysis 1/Warhead, Skyrim + ENB Mods, Batman AC + 8AA, Serious Sam 3, Sleeping Dogs. That's a lot of games where an overclocked 7950 would beat it in. So we can't just use BF3 as the end-all-be-all game.



OK. Does a cute Asian girl come with the NV card? That might push me over next round.

Hey man, i understand that the 7950 is in fact a great buy. but if the price is so similar, this being 30 dollars and you have the choice to get a 670 with a GREAT cooler or a 7950 are you honestly telling me youd get the 7950? Are you honestly telling me if you had two cards with the EXACT same performance youd choose amd over nvidia? The games you listed arent HUGE games, the ones that are perform almost the same as AMD's do such as skyrim and batman.

 

[RussianSensation]

Non existent lead? Youre showing me a 680 beating a 7970 lol

Ummm no, Silver linked an Asus DCUII 680 with 1212mhz Core / 1290 GPU Boost vs. HD7970 overclocked.

Overall the 7970 GE is a faster card then the 680 at stock and overclocked besides MSI 680 Lightning which is the fastest single-GPU on air. Of course this has nothing to do with 7950 vs. 670 but you are derailing this thread into AMD vs. NV, despite this horse having been beaten to death.

You seem to think BF3 is the best game in the world but you aren't helping the OP primarily. You seem to be so concerned with proving that GTX670 > 7950 and 680 > 7970 that you missed the whole point of helping the person asking for advice between a used card and a new card for $320 with high overclocking potential. It has already been shown here that based on OP's games the 670 is a better card, primarily because of Guild Wars 2 issues AMD is having right now. However, you decided to venture this into "overall 7950 vs. 670".

Hey man, i understand that the 7950 is in fact a great buy. but if the price is so similar, this being 30 dollars and you have the choice to get a 670 with a GREAT cooler or a 7950 are you honestly telling me youd get the 7950? Are you honestly telling me if you had two cards with the EXACT same performance youd choose amd over nvidia? The games you listed arent HUGE games, the ones that are perform almost the same as AMD's do such as skyrim and batman.

The 7950 card is one of the best after-market 7950s though. MSI TF3 with binned Tahiti XT chips and itself a good after-market cooler.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-radeon-hd-7950-twin-frozer-iii-review/

We aren't talking about a reference stock 7950 here. Also the 670 card is used, which is the whole point of this discussion.

BTW, 670 loses to an 800mhz 7950 in SKYRIM with mods and Batman AC with AA:

5% slower in Skyrim with mods at 8AA.
1% slower in Batman AC

Remember though we are talking about MSI TF3 that hits 1.1-1.2ghz.....Not that it matters since the OP never asked about these games.

Also, I still recommended that the OP get the 670 based on his games, esp. GW2. If I had a choice between a 7950 and a 670 for the same price, I'd get the 7950 because it makes $ bitcoin mining on the side. If I only played games, I'd get the 670 since it uses less power than an overclocked 7950. Unfortunately the 670 is not $320 so this type of a hypothetical scenario is just that hypothetical.

 

[markyd]

Ummm not he linked an Asus DCUII 680 with 1212mhz Core / 1290 GPU Boost vs. HD7970 overclocked in one of the best games for NV.

You seem to think BF3 is the best game in the world but you aren't helping the OP primarily. You seem to be so concerned with proving that GTX670 > 7950 and 680 > 7970 that you missed the whole point of helping the person asking for advice.

Overall the 7970 GE is a faster card then the 680 at stock and overclocked besides MSI 680 Lightning which is the fastest single-GPU on air. Of course this has nothing to do with 7950 vs. 670 but you are derailing this thread into AMD vs. NV, despite this horse having been beaten to death.

I know that? the 680 beats the 7970 in that bench, or am i blind. Also, im not the one that started the 680 vs 7970 stuff.

 

[Silverforce11]

Are you fucking stupid? Can you show me where the lead for the 7970 OC IS ?

 

[markyd]

Congrats, you completely ignore every part where the 680 wins, but point out where the 7970 wins by 3 times compared to the 680 beating it every other time. and then you say im bias and stupid.

 

[Silverforce11]

I'm comparing OC vs OC, how about you look at the graph more carefully?? The 7970 only loses once: at 1080p with 4x AA. It wins in 3/4 scenarios. Im not even going to say a win because the the fps is so close its irrelevant. But to claim NV has a lead in BF3, now, OC vs OC? Don't be stupid.

 

[markyd]

I'm comparing OC vs OC, how about you look at the graph more carefully?? The 7970 only loses once: at 1080p with 4x AA. It wins in 3/4 scenarios. Im not even going to say a win because the the fps is so close its irrelevant. But to claim NV has a lead in BF3, now, OC vs OC? Don't be stupid.

Youre comparing OC VS OC where AMD wins, not as a whole. Also, thats just 1 benchmark. OC'd cards arent fixed so results vary at the highest overclocks.

 

[RussianSensation]

I know that? the 680 beats the 7970 in that bench, or am i blind. Also, im not the one that started the 680 vs 7970 stuff.

Yes, a stock 925mhz 7970 loses to a GTX680 at BF3. However, a 1050mhz Sapphire Vapor-X is $443 after $15 off vs. $525 for a similar after-market GTX680. So what's the point comparing a 925mhz 7970 to a 680? Of course a reference 680 is faster than a stock 7970, which is why a reference 7970 can be purchased for $380-395.

 

[markyd]

Yes, a stock 925mhz 7970 loses to a GTX680 at BF3. However, a 1050mhz Sapphire Vapor-X is $443 after $15 off vs. $525 for a similar after-market GTX680. So what's the point comparing a 925mhz 7970 to a 680? Of course a reference 680 is faster than a stock 7970, which is why a reference 7970 can be purchased for $380-395.

Honestly i dont even care, im just saying 670>7950.

 

[sze5003]

I don't get it do people actually play their games or just run tests on them? If its a few fps lower, either card, is it unplayable? I don't think so. I also need a new card and was considering either of those two but I don't want to get a new case.

 

[RussianSensation]

Youre comparing OC VS OC where AMD wins, not as a whole. Also, thats just 1 benchmark. OC'd cards arent fixed so results vary at the highest overclocks.

You realize those benchmarks Silver linked have a stock 680 in Green and the Blue lines are overclocked 680? The farthest blue line is 680 1212mhz with 1290 GPU Boost.

Did you ever read this review --> Link

I quote:

"Until today, the incredible KFA2 GTX680 Limited OC Edition claimed the ultimate single GPU performance spot, however in the majority of the real world game testing, the Sapphire HD7970 6GB Toxic Edition managed to outperform the overclocked GTX680. The reference clocked GTX680 doesn’t even factor into making a viable challenge. The performance results are unquestionably impressive. In 7 out of 11 tests, The Sapphire HD7970 6GB Toxic Edition outperformed the KFA2 GTX680 Limited OC Edition."

Only GTX680 MSI Lightning for $600 or EVGA GTX680 $720 with EVBot can beat a $443 Vapor-X 7970 on air:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/30/msi_geforce_gtx_680_lightning_overclocking_redux/5

Right now the overall performance is:

GTX690 > 1350-1380mhz MSI GTX680 Lightning/EVGA Classy + Volt mod > 1250-1280mhz HD7970 / 7970 GE > GTX680 @ 1212/1290 GPU Boost > 1165-1175mhz 7950 ~ 1300 GPU Boosted 670 > 7970 GE > GTX680 = Factory Pre-OC 670 = 1000mhz HD7970 > HD7970 = stock 670 > 7950 880-950mhz ~ 1100 ghz Core / 1200 GPU Boost Factory Pre-OC 660Ti > 800mhz 7950 = GTX660Ti > 7870 = GTX580 > HD6970 = GTX570 > 7850.

 

[RussianSensation]

Honestly i dont even care, im just saying 670>7950.

$400 GTX670 > $320 800-950mhz 7950. Sure.

If we didn't care for price performance, we'd all be running GTX690 Quad-SLI

With overclocking 7950 @ 1.15-1.2ghz = 1300mhz GTX670 for $317 with 3 free games.

You can say that a reference 670 > reference 7950, otherwise your statement is false.

I don't get it do people actually play their games or just run tests on them? If its a few fps lower, either card, is it unplayable? I don't think so. I also need a new card and was considering either of those two but I don't want to get a new case.

GIGABYTE GV-N670WF2-2GD = 265mm
GIGABYTE GV-N670OC-2GD = 275mm

I think the MSI TF3 7950 is about 11 inches in length = 279mm. You should ask in this thread.

 

[sze5003]

$400 GTX670 > $320 800-950mhz 7950. Sure.

If we didn't care for price performance, we'd all be running GTX690 Quad-SLI

With overclocking 7950 @ 1.15-1.2ghz = 1300mhz GTX670 for $317 with 3 free games.

You can say that a reference 670 > reference 7950, otherwise your statement is false.



GIGABYTE GV-N670WF2-2GD = 265mm
GIGABYTE GV-N670OC-2GD = 275mm

I think the MSI TF3 7950 is about 11 inches in length = 279mm. You should ask in this thread.

Thanks for the info. Looks like both of those 670's will fit, the windforce edition is 10.7 inches, the other a little less. I remember reading a user review thread where someone fit the windforce OC model in the Roswell Challenger case.

 

[RussianSensation]

BTW Amazon has "Like-New" Gigabyte GTX670 for $372 and Superbiiz has Gigabyte Windforce 670 for $374 for anyone interested in the 670.

 

[zaydq]

Honestly i dont even care, im just saying 670>7950.

You don't do Nvidia fan boys much justice... not only do you argue like a fool, but you're just spouting biased views with no hard back up. I heard Nvidia's forums are quite friendly to their fellow fans

 

[2is]

Can't really go wrong with either card. Both have their advantages. Instead of listening to either the nVidia or AMD fanboys, (they are quite easy to spot) it's best to read the reviews, particularly for the games that you want to play and get the card that performs better in those games. That's assuming your primary reason for buying a card is gaming.

 

[3DVagabond]

BETA performance, let's all bash AMD for poor drivers in an unreleased game. While NV is suffering in released titles, in currently the best game around: Sleeping Dogs along with a bunch of other AAA games.

But nevermind that, AMD drivers suck cos its slow in a beta.

+1

There have been a number of recent releases that AMD has had the better performance out of the gate. Doesn't matter though.

 

[3DVagabond]

@ markyd,

It's gonna be a tough crowd for you if you just show up spouting one brand is better than the other. Most of the posters here know that just isn't true.

I've often said that, IMO, looking at benchmarks there is no good reason for anyone to buy a 680 as long as the 670 exists and the 680 costs 25% more. The only people who will argue with me on that are the ones who want nVidia to make more money.

The 7950 is better value not because it's faster than a 670, but because the 670 cost ~25% more and the 7950 will O/C to be within punching distance of the more expensive card even when it's O/C'd as well, just like the 670 does with the 680.

There are other stability issues though. I, for one, would be concerned that we've had BIOS updates from nVidia and from Asus (different instances) to address stability issues and a "no questions asked exchange for a more expensive model" from EVGA, on the 670 so far. We also haven't seen any site do a before and after comparison review after these updated bios'/versions. Might perform just as well, but it might not and we haven't been updated.

If AMD had similar issues, especially considering the prior instances of 570's and 590's dieing when over volted, and updated the 7950 bios lowering boost targets, voltage locking, etc. there would be a huge viral push about how bad AMD is. There would be no reason to ever trust an AMD product again and all of the nVidia fans would be screaming from the rooftops, "I told you so!" Let there be any driver issue, like in an unreleased game that's still in beta, and it's, "AMD drivers are suxors. I know because I had an AMD card in 2001 and the drivers sucked then." Or, heaven forbid, anything like "Bumpgate" ever occurred in the AMD camp. I'm bringing these up because there are lots of reasons people could jump on dismissing either brand. In the end though, it's not true. Both companies are very competitive in the gaming area. Not in marketing though. Which is why we have skewed opinions.

Typically, in the past, AMD had the better value products. Right now they have the better value and performance. Somehow nVidia is still enjoying their premiums for brand recognition though. :\

By the way, Are you THIS markyd? If so, from your point of view as a 3DMax user, I can understand you being of the opinion the nVidia>AMD.