need help with ethics question

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

warning up front: this is a pretty long and detailed description of my problem

I sold some passes (good for limited time free admission to a FL theme park) on Ebay for about $100 plus $11 for USPS shipping/insurance/tracking/signature confirmation. I sent it 2 day Priority Mail, with the buyer paying for the shipping. I explained that there were no refunds of any kind, unless the theme park went out of business, and she mailed the passes back. (I had to take a hard line on refunds, because some folks simply change their travel plans, and then want a refund, and others make high quality copies, & try getting refunds with those unethically) Couldn't really offer refunds, since the passes were very time sensitive, and no good past a certain date.

My worst fears came to pass when I started getting questions from the buyer about where the package was. Tracking online showed something about "missent", which makes it sound like my fault. The detailed tracking info shows "unable to deliver as addressed". 2 days ago I ended up signing for same package that I shipped out, when it was returned to me. I immediately offered her the choice of either sending them overnight to her at no cost, or sending her the relevant USPS insurance information for her to get a refund at her local post office.

I had her verify her mailing address info, and the road and zip information she gave differs from what printed out automatically with the Paypal/Ebay shipping label that I affixed to the package. The post office appears to have caught the zip code problem, but then the road she says she lives on is Roberta, and the one that printed was Robert. Evidently that was just too much for the post office, and they ended up sending the passes back to me.

The woman says she delayed her Florida vacation in the hope that the passes would come, and that her Florida vacation was ruined when the passes did not arrive on time.

Now she is saying that she is not only owed the full purchase price, but also the cost of postage. What are my options, and what SHOULD I do ethically/morally? From what I hear, it sounds like Ebay would probably force me to offer this person a refund anyway.

I certainly don't want to be out the whole ~$111 just because of either a postal error or Ebay/Paypal shipping label printout error. I printed things out, affixed the mailing label, triple checked the proper number of passes, included instructions, and got it to the post office quickly.

I know that Ebay/Paypal won't take any responsibility. The postal service will probably deny any claim for insurance, saying that the address wasn't correct. It is sounding more and more like I'm going to end up holding the bag, despite doing nothing wrong. Evidently she isn't satisfied with getting a refund minus the shipping, either - and wants me to eat not only the Ebay/Paypal fees, but also the USPS shipping fees.

Not sure what the best policy is here, or even if I really have any choice. I can see her side in it, because she paid for something and never got it, despite my best efforts. The only other time anything like this ever happened, it was a package being sent to ME, and I had simply forgotten to update my address on Ebay/Paypal after I had moved. (she says this is NOT the case, and refuses to take any responsibility) Anyone have thoughts on how best to proceed? With this much cash involved, I simply don't know what to do. Thanks so much.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Well how did the address get screwed up?


It sounds to me like the shipping website tried to "autocorrect" the address and you did not double check it. If that's the case then you should refund her the full amount including shipping.

If she had the address wrong inside of ebay/paypal (doubtful) then it's on her. I would still refund the ticket cost but not shipping.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

And, if she files a chargeback paypal will immediate deduct that from your account. You are seriously screwed if she goes that route, so I suggest resolving it amicably if possible.

 

[jpiniero]

Just consider it an expensive lesson not to use eBay.

 

[TwiceOver]

Well what does the ebay transaction show for the address? If that's wrong, then you are in the clear.

 

[rudeguy]

This is one of those situations where you did nothing wrong but you are going to take the hit. Its the same as any retailer though, its a risk of doing business.

In the future you can always use the USPS site to verify addresses. Its much more accurate and much easier than letting another site try to autocorrect.

Sorry about the situation but I don't see anything you can do other than a full refund.

 

[sixone]

Anyone have thoughts on how best to proceed? With this much cash involved, I simply don't know what to do. Thanks so much.

You're going to refund her purchase price, aren't you? After that $11 is peanuts, just give it back to her and get on with your life.

 

[Pulsar]

I don't know why you should use ebay - it works just fine.

To the OP, send her the money. Now.

As a seller, it's your responsibility to get the package to her. If it screwed up before it left your hands - with the wrong zip and street #, then it's on you. The customer has only 2 expectations.

1. They hand you the money
2. They get the product when they agreed / were told they should receive it.

All the liability rests with the seller (you). Be thankful she isn't taking you to small claims over the cost of the vacation that she claimed was ruined.

 

[Schfifty Five]

If in the event you had to refund her the money, you will not be charged ebay/paypal fees, so don't worry about that.

As far as the shipping goes, I would say that you printed out the address that was tied to her ebay/paypal account. It was her fault for having the wrong address there. Thus you should not be liable for that $11 charge.

And lastly, with her saying she delayed her trip b/c of that is pretty much irrelevant to this transaction. That should not play a role in whether or not you refund her the money.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll go ahead and send her the full refund. Maybe it will at least preserve my 100% feedback rating.

 

[xBiffx]

Well what does the ebay transaction show for the address? If that's wrong, then you are in the clear.

This. If you didn't mess anything up and the information was wrong, that isn't your fault. That is the fault of the buyer for providing incorrect address information and not verifying it. Check to make sure that where you sent it matched the information provided to you. That is all you are obligated to do as a seller.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll go ahead and send her the full refund. Maybe it will at least preserve my 100% feedback rating.

You could also try asking her if she'd be ok with splitting the shipping cost, but honestly, it sounds like it was the buyer's fault for the wrong address.

 

[Paladin3]

I believe eBay/PayPal sellers are REQUIRED to ship to the address on file with PayPal, which is what prints out on the label you used. If her verified ship to address with PayPal is incorrect, that is technically her fault. You shipped the package exactly where she requested you to by having that address on file.

I'd call eBay and or PayPal and talk with them, because she will start a charge back and they will automatically side with her unless you tell them your side of the story. They may just side with the buyer anyway and tell you to eat it as a cost of doing business.

Of course, as a small business owner, we verify our ship to addresses directly with the customer whenever we have a time sensitive package going out to avoid situations like this. Customers don't give a damn about what happened, even if they are at fault, and just want their package on time.

Good luck.

Edit: and if eBay finds in your favor you need to make sure any negative feedback she leaves you is removed. But don't hold your breath, I understand eBay has not been very seller friendly in recent years. This is why I do everything I can ahead of time to make sure the transaction is smooth and I cover my behind.

 

[Juddog]

Well how did the address get screwed up?


It sounds to me like the shipping website tried to "autocorrect" the address and you did not double check it. If that's the case then you should refund her the full amount including shipping.

If she had the address wrong inside of ebay/paypal (doubtful) then it's on her. I would still refund the ticket cost but not shipping.

^^ This - there should have been an option on the website to override the automatic correction of the address. I have had the same issue happen to me in the past, and I specifically had to ignore the auto-correct from the shipping site. If the site auto corrected and you didn't check it, then that shows negligence on your part.

-- edit --
This typically has happened to me where I copy / paste the address info, click on print receipt, and then double check the physical label before i put it on the box - that's typically when I would notice if the auto correct messed up the address. It boils down to the automated system not having every street / address in their database, so it pulls the closest thing to what it thinks you mean, which can be erroneous at times. If the address doesn't match, usually I'll just google the address to see if there is a misspelling / etc., and if necessary, contact the user and confirm the address before sending it out.

 

[Murloc]

well she didn't get what she bought and 11$ is not much, so I'd just give a full refund in exchange for silence, just bag your lunch instead of buying for a few days and consider it a lesson learned on the risks of being a seller on ebay.

 

[SlitheryDee]

In some cases your course of action isn't really determined by whether you're right or not. If the address listed with paypal was incorrect, it's definitely her fault. It's still probably easier for you to simply give the full refund and move on though. You might get to keep that $11 if you fight for it, but you'll go through $20 worth of effort to do so. Also, if you lose, you probably get a hit to your seller rating in addition to still having gone through all that effort for nothing.

 

[Midwayman]

I think the big question is if you're past the sell-ability date on the tickets now. If you are and she gave you a bad address, I'd fight it. Re-ship with tracking/insurance. If not its probably better just to refund her and turn them around on ebay as quick as possible.

IIRC to have any seller protection you *have* to ship to a paypal confirmed address. If the one she gave you isn't the confirmed one you can get screwed as well.

 

[Malak]

Judging by your username, I think you need help with a lot of ethics questions.

 

[xBiffx]

Judging by your username, I think you need help with a lot of ethics questions.

Troll troll troll your boat.

 

[BUTCH1]

It's her responsibility to accurately enter her correct address as part of her Paypal profile, if she can't manage that enormous task that's her bad. Tell her to log on to Paypal and fix the mistake, NO REFUND....

 

[Craig234]

One question, what are these tickets - they arne't something where you're breaking some rule like 'for local resident only' you get and resell, are they?

That would be the first ethical question.

On the second one, I didn't quite parse the details, but if the error was not hers, refund the money; if it was hers, then it's up to you.