Need help - restoration of 1986 Porsche 944.

[spidey07]

Good luck with the project!

pics?

I've always wanted to pick up an older porsche for a project car. The parts and prices/mechanic alway scare me away though.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Well its the truth, and like I said, it was just the beginning. Feel free to add my experiences to your tacking info, if you dare. Otherwise its not honest tracking. Sometimes people dont talk about bad experiences theyve had with cars for various reasons. Ive had 16 cars since 1988 and would be happy to share as much as I can with you.

That car was a POS. Too many bugs for coincidence. Did previous maintenance come into play? Yes. Do I do all necessay repairs? You bet your sweet ass. And Im willing to bet Im not the only one whos had a bad 944.

ps. Im going to post the vid eventually but its on VHS.

pps. No car is beyond criticism, not even my faves. If it hurts your feelings to read them about a car I once admired, dont take it personally. I can go on-n-on.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Well its the truth, and like I said, it was just the beginning. Feel free to add my experiences to your tacking info, if you dare. Otherwise its not honest tracking. Sometimes people dont talk about bad experiences theyve had with cars for various reasons. Ive had 16 cars since 1988 and would be happy to share as much as I can with you.

That car was a POS. Too many bugs for coincidence. Did previous maintenance come into play? Yes. Do I do all necessay repairs? You bet your sweet ass. And Im willing to bet Im not the only one whos had a bad 944.

ps. Im going to post the vid eventually but its on VHS.

pps. No car is beyond criticism, not even my faves. If it hurts your feelings to read them about a car I once admired, dont take it personally. I can go on-n-on.

Oh, I've spent thousands on maintenance for the 944's. But you simply cannot EVER comment on the overall reliability of a car that you have not owned since new. If you have every maintenance record for the entire life of the car, you can come close, but to claim inherent reliability issues to the model, as you sure seemed to do in the post, is just plain stupid to do based on a single sample. There are far too many variables involved.

944's are especially "sensitive". Follow all maintenance to the letter and you'll never have a problem. There are numerous owners out there with 200,000 to 300,000 miles on original engines without issue. However, the instant someone starts trying to get a couple extra miles on that oil change, or a few more miles out of that timing belt, or thinks that a different weight of oil is OK, or puts the wrong fluid in the PS system, or puts generic coolant into the car (aluminum engine, generic coolant does BAD things), etc, the car gets very expensive very fast.

You had bad experiences, that's not up for debate. However, it's irresponsible from a scientific standpoint for you to blame it on the car. I hear complaints about 944's all the time. I've had them about mine. But I've yet to hear of any major issues that are not caused by neglect. If you managed to prove that the example you bought was maintained perfectly at the finest shops and still had those issues, you would be the first person I've heard of having those issues without having a once-neglected car. You have a single sample. I have literally hundreds through PCA, Pelican, and talking with mechanics. Your instance is an outlier. Statistically, it is almost a certainty that the car was neglected or abused. The blown CV joints are a dead giveaway. I've never once heard of a CV joint failing unless the car was power-shifted. Never. Racers, however, routinely have CV joint failures from abrupt gear changes.

ZV

 

[Anubis]

a good friend of mine has a 944 turbo, dont remember teh year late 80s IIRC if you want i can put you in contact with him via email

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Well its the truth, and like I said, it was just the beginning. Feel free to add my experiences to your tacking info, if you dare. Otherwise its not honest tracking. Sometimes people dont talk about bad experiences theyve had with cars for various reasons. Ive had 16 cars since 1988 and would be happy to share as much as I can with you.

That car was a POS. Too many bugs for coincidence. Did previous maintenance come into play? Yes. Do I do all necessay repairs? You bet your sweet ass. And Im willing to bet Im not the only one whos had a bad 944.

ps. Im going to post the vid eventually but its on VHS.

pps. No car is beyond criticism, not even my faves. If it hurts your feelings to read them about a car I once admired, dont take it personally. I can go on-n-on.

Oh, I've spent thousands on maintenance for the 944's. But you simply cannot EVER comment on the overall reliability of a car that you have not owned since new. If you have every maintenance record for the entire life of the car, you can come close, but to claim inherent reliability issues to the model, as you sure seemed to do in the post, is just plain stupid to do based on a single sample. There are far too many variables involved.

944's are especially "sensitive". Follow all maintenance to the letter and you'll never have a problem. There are numerous owners out there with 200,000 to 300,000 miles on original engines without issue. However, the instant someone starts trying to get a couple extra miles on that oil change, or a few more miles out of that timing belt, or thinks that a different weight of oil is OK, or puts the wrong fluid in the PS system, or puts generic coolant into the car (aluminum engine, generic coolant does BAD things), etc, the car gets very expensive very fast.

You had bad experiences, that's not up for debate. However, it's irresponsible from a scientific standpoint for you to blame it on the car. I hear complaints about 944's all the time. I've had them about mine. But I've yet to hear of any major issues that are not caused by neglect. If you managed to prove that the example you bought was maintained perfectly at the finest shops and still had those issues, you would be the first person I've heard of having those issues without having a once-neglected car. You have a single sample. I have literally hundreds through PCA, Pelican, and talking with mechanics. Your instance is an outlier. Statistically, it is almost a certainty that the car was neglected or abused. The blown CV joints are a dead giveaway. I've never once heard of a CV joint failing unless the car was power-shifted. Never. Racers, however, routinely have CV joint failures from abrupt gear changes.

ZV

Not every car is going to get the absolute best quality service possible. Cars have to be designed with some leeway. This goes back to the poor timing belt design. Thats not quality, thats unacceptable. Sure improvements are made over time and tomorrows cars may be worlds apart from todays. So you cant apply todays rules to a car from 1984 and say that was garbage. But if Porsche knowingly built a car that couldnt take normal (and some abnormal) wear and tear, then that says something about the manufacturer, and its not good.

The two CV joints that failed were on the drivers side, inner and outter that came out to $600 to fix from what I recall. I was 21 at the time, so Im trying to recall as much as I can. The mechanic explained that the boot had developed a small tear and some grease leaked out over time. Couple that with driving in the rain and you have water contamination, which led to failure. No 'racing' factors involved, but nice try anyway.

This was fifteen years ago, but Ive never even considered buying Porsche again because of my experience. And believe me, comming to the realization wasnt easy as I really had become attached to it. But when I was looking at several more thousand dollars to replace the head gasket, they car had to go. I dumped it on a new car trade in 1992.

And while you may feel its irresponsible to consider my experiences from a scientific standpoint, that I had so many issues, some not even related (body mechanical, interior electrical) is also an unwise position.

Applying the logic that all parts and designs are perfect and failures only come from user maintenence and driving habits is something the auto industry would love for us all to believe. Otherwise, the Chevrolet Covair was safe at every speed. The Ford Pinto never exploded in firey crashes, neither did the Crown Victoria. The Ford Explorer never had a problem with tipping over. The Suziki Samuri didnt either for that matter. Poor design and low quality parts is / are a recipe for disaster. And Im not just focusing on this 944. I had a Ford Probe that was even worse than this car.

Thanks for making me relive that nightmare btw. :laugh:

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
I was 21 at the time,

All I needed to hear. 21. Porsche. Bitching about a $600 repair.

Heard it all before. Someone who is too cheap to take care of the car properly. Bought a cheap example and didn't put the money or the pre-purchase inspection into it to maintain it.

A small crack in the CV joint boot should have been caught within 3,000 miles at the next oil change. Not nearly enough time to destroy the bearings. Taking longer than that to notice it is neglect. Also, CV boots don't tear unless they strike something, so somwhere along the line you ran over road debris and didn't remember.

Don't get me started on the Corvair (perfectly safe in the hands of a competant driver), or the Pinto (met all applicable safety standards), or the Explorer (precisely ZERO instances of tire failure with properly-inflated tires, all instances were cause by severe under-inflation combined with over-loading the vehicle).

ZV

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: swtethan
send it to a pro

Anyone know of a pro in Houston?

Valkyrie?

 

[Need4Speed]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: swtethan
send it to a pro

Anyone know of a pro in Houston?

Valkyrie?

bada bing!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: swtethan
send it to a pro

Anyone know of a pro in Houston?

Valkyrie?

:laugh::laugh:

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
I was 21 at the time,

All I needed to hear. 21. Porsche. Bitching about a $600 repair.

Heard it all before. Someone who is too cheap to take care of the car properly. Bought a cheap example and didn't put the money or the pre-purchase inspection into it to maintain it.

A small crack in the CV joint boot should have been caught within 3,000 miles at the next oil change. Not nearly enough time to destroy the bearings. Taking longer than that to notice it is neglect. Also, CV boots don't tear unless they strike something, so somwhere along the line you ran over road debris and didn't remember.

Don't get me started on the Corvair (perfectly safe in the hands of a competant driver), or the Pinto (met all applicable safety standards), or the Explorer (precisely ZERO instances of tire failure with properly-inflated tires, all instances were cause by severe under-inflation combined with over-loading the vehicle).

ZV

Yet another example of Zim talking out of his rear end. You made yet another assumption - the third wrong one at that, just in this single thread. You want to make it four in a row? I put several thousand dollars into that worthless car. You failed to me ask first, a sign of a know it all who knows nothing.

Your comments about the above mentioned vehicles speaks for itself. That was the acid test. I wish I could live in la la land too, where there is no such thing as an imperfect product or vehicle. Those were well known examples of lemmons and extremely dangerous ones at that.

I guess we are just to have to agreee not to agree (on much of anything).

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
The Ford Explorer never had a problem with tipping over. The Suziki Samuri didnt either for that matter. Poor design and low quality parts is / are a recipe for disaster.

That's not a question of poor design. That's a question of idiot drivers trying to corner an SUV like it was a sports car...or worse, hard braking while cornering, which is stupid no matter what you drive. I believe Car&Driver? did a test where they rigged an Explorer tire to suddenly lose all pressure, simulating a blowout. They put their man in, with a good helmet, and checked to see if they could get it to roll over. Nope, it WOULDN'T. They even had their guy TAKE HIS HANDS OFF THE WHEEL while they blew out the tire. The only time it rolled over was if the driver was stupid.

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Don't get me started on the Corvair (perfectly safe in the hands of a competant driver), or the Pinto (met all applicable safety standards),

I wouldn't go that far, though...the Corvair was safe, as long as you never had an accident. If you did, it would mess you up...seriously. Accidents aren't always preventable, even by safe drivers.
The Pinto was the fault of the NHTSA for not tightening those standards. It always takes a public outcry for these things...

How I see it is that Porsches are, on average, less reliable than other marks...but they're MUCH less forgiving of abuse/lack of regular maintenance. WAAAAY back in the day you had to practically rebuild your engine every month, and regrease every joint every week as part of "regular maintenance." These days we just throw in new oil every 5, 7, 10k miles, and don't think about it. You just have to be careful with the higher-end sports cars, like Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc. They REALLY need regular maintenance to stay reliable.

 

[Eddie 944]

I have a 1986 Porsche turbo. Would not recommend after market dashes. This one had one in it, and did not work, was taken out except for all the glue.

While we appreciate your interest, this thread hasn't been posted in since 2006, so I doubt anyone is still doing the restoration.
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