Need help picking out an UPS

[Rahabib]

Ok, I did a brief forum search but there wasnt really much info that I needed I thought Id start a new thread.

First let me describe what I need. I am having major brown outs. I've gone through a motherboard and now I am having problems with RAM. I think (although its not certain) that it the Ram went bad the same day we had a major lightning storm. It wasn't so much power surges but also from the storm we had brown outs. Also, periodically, we have brownouts for no reason. I figured, It couldnt hurt getting a UPS for a little piece of mind.

My computer has a 420w PSU for the 375w of junk in it (3HDDs, Vid, LCD, 4 fans, 3200+ AMD, etc.) so I have a lot running in here to protect is my point.

Currently I am using the $2 power strips but I am not sure they are doing much if anything.

I have been doing some research online and think that maybe I need one with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). That way I get a constant flow of electricity to the computer. I am not sure if the PSU acts as a regulator or not, so I am not sure if this is something I need. I really just dont know anything about how the PSU works.

Do I even need a UPS? Is there an alternative? If so, what VU, or W of a UPS do I need. I only have about a hundred bucks to spend so I am hoping to get one that will work but not break the bank.

Thanks for any help!

 

[NumbaJuan]

Belkin is a good choice

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: Rahabib
Ok, I did a brief forum search but there wasnt really much info that I needed I thought Id start a new thread.

First let me describe what I need. I am having major brown outs. I've gone through a motherboard and now I am having problems with RAM. I think (although its not certain) that it the Ram went bad the same day we had a major lightning storm. It wasn't so much power surges but also from the storm we had brown outs. Also, periodically, we have brownouts for no reason. I figured, It couldnt hurt getting a UPS for a little piece of mind.

My computer has a 420w PSU for the 375w of junk in it (3HDDs, Vid, LCD, 4 fans, 3200+ AMD, etc.) so I have a lot running in here to protect is my point.

Currently I am using the $2 power strips but I am not sure they are doing much if anything.

I have been doing some research online and think that maybe I need one with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). That way I get a constant flow of electricity to the computer. I am not sure if the PSU acts as a regulator or not, so I am not sure if this is something I need. I really just dont know anything about how the PSU works.

Do I even need a UPS? Is there an alternative? If so, what VU, or W of a UPS do I need. I only have about a hundred bucks to spend so I am hoping to get one that will work but not break the bank.

Thanks for any help!

It depends on how much run time you want.

 

[Rahabib]

I dont need to much run time. I do media compression from time to time but I use Cleaner and if it crashes it automatically creates a dump file to recover. I probably only need about a 5 minute battery time for my computer.

Would a line conditioner help me? They are only slightly cheaper than a UPS so I figured that a UPS would still be the way to go. I may be wrong on that.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[shortylickens]

The best place to START looking is a Staples or Office-Max.
They have great big UPS's and little tiny ones too. I bought the cheapest APC brand model I could find and it works great.

Only hook up the monitor and case to the backed-up recepticles.
This way you can turn your machine off with plenty of time and no extra power drain.

If you want to, plug in the data cord from the UPS to your computer.
Then, change your power settings in windows to shut down apps and turn off the computer when the battery gets too low. The software which comes with the unit is excessive for most people.

 

[NeoPTLD]

The $99 rectangular bar stype UPS with four LEDs in front sold at CompUSA is made by APC and they have AVR. They should be really good since they're built by APC.

 

[LED]

Originally posted by: NumbaJuan
Belkin is a good choice

Rahabib...1st off welcome to the Forums and the Belkin or an APC that is similar would be a good choice as they have line conditioners built in plus Powerstrip capabilities, phone line current, Software Monitoring and other things but the biggest is the Insurance of the equipment.
I can not understand why any serious/vital User does not have one

 

[pookie69]

Sorry, a lil aside from main point - but what are BROWNOUTS?

Thanks

 

[Navid]

A brown-out is when the line voltage decreases but it does not go to zero.
http://www.elect-spec.com/faqbrwn.htm
That can damage a computer easily. An automatic voltage regulator will detect such a condition and engage the UPS to generate the voltage for the computer. Then, as far as the computer is concerned, the voltage never drops below 90% (the trigger point for the line voltage monitor).

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: Navid
A brown-out is when the line voltage decreases but it does not go to zero.
http://www.elect-spec.com/faqbrwn.htm
That can damage a computer easily. An automatic voltage regulator will detect such a condition and engage the UPS to generate the voltage for the computer. Then, as far as the computer is concerned, the voltage never drops below 90% (the trigger point for the line voltage monitor).

Woah - an entire site about brownouts - thanks for the heads-up. Appreciated mate.

 

[Rahabib]

wow, thanks a ton for all your help.

Couple of more questions:
does it matter what voltage or VA the ups have for my computer? keep in mind that I only need a minute or two to turn off my computer since I dont leave it on all the time.

I see some that are 400VA, 500VA, 800VA, 1000VA, and even more than that. All I want is one monitor and my computer (420Watt PSU) plugged into it. Can I get away with just the 400VA? Is there a trick to finding out which is for you?

Thanks a ton, this by far is the most informative forum I have been on.

 

[Navid]

On the UPS box, you get a table that tells you how long the UPS will run with no line voltage. That is the best to go by.

VA is voltage multipled by Amps (current). But, that is tricky. Power is voltage multipled by amps multipled by the cosine of the angle between the voltage and current (we are talking about alternating current so there is an angle). The angle depends on the load inductance or capacitance. Sorry about the rambling. The point I am trying to make is that the UPS VA rating is not a friendly figure to use.

Get the largest one you can that you can afford.

You can connect the UPS to your computer by serial port and it will issue an interrupt that will automatically power down your computer when the battery is low. So, if you lose power, your UPS kicks in. But, after its battery has run out, the computer will turn off automatically before the battery is completely empty.

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: Navid
On the UPS box, you get a table that tells you how long the UPS will run with no line voltage. That is the best to go by.

VA is voltage multipled by Amps (current). But, that is tricky. Power is voltage multipled by amps multipled by the cosine of the angle between the voltage and current (we are talking about alternating current so there is an angle). The angle depends on the load inductance or capacitance. Sorry about the rambling. The point I am trying to make is that the UPS VA rating is not a friendly figure to use.

Get the largest one you can that you can afford.

You can connect the UPS to your computer by serial port and it will issue an interrupt that will automatically power down your computer when the battery is low. So, if you lose power, your UPS kicks in. But, after its battery has run out, the computer will turn off automatically before the battery is completely empty.

If you had your user profile enabled, id give you 10/10 for sure! So informative

Such a nice young man - LOL

 

[Matt155]

Hey look into UPS made by Cyberpower, they make great ups and good prices. I am using the 900 avr, had it for over 3 yrs now with no problems. I bought mine over internet but u can check it on ebay too, they had some at great prices.

 

[NeoPTLD]

If you get one of those cheap Belkin Office 500VA or the like, remember that it will provide two or three minutes of backup time out of box for your setup at best. You seldom get anywhere near the "up to xx min" claim. As battery degrades overtime, ability to sustain near full load becomes very hard. Don't expect it to be able to provide out of box backup time @ full load after about 18 months. The battery only lasts about 3 yrs anyways.

 

[Rahabib]

Originally posted by: Matt155
Hey look into UPS made by Cyberpower, they make great ups and good prices. I am using the 900 avr, had it for over 3 yrs now with no problems. I bought mine over internet but u can check it on ebay too, they had some at great prices.

Ok I looked into it but now I have more questions. The one listed below says that the wattage is 325W. My PSU is a 420W. Does this mean that it wont supply the correct wattage or regulation that I need? Or am I just confused and it doesnt make a difference. Again, I am not too concerned with how much battery time cause I only need a minute or two to shut down is all.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/585avr.htm

Thanks again in advance,

 

[Navid]

Keep in mind that your supply rating of 420W is the maximum power that it can deliver (at least, that is what the manufacturer of your PSU has guaranteed). Now, this UPS can only deliver a maximum of 325W.

A good question is "Is this UPS power rating only for when there is no line voltage, or for all the time"?
I do not have the answer.
Hopefully, the answer is that this is the power rating only for when the line voltage is gone. If that is the case, the UPS will not limit the power as long as there is line voltage and your supply will set the limit.

Then, you should be OK with it since when you lose the line voltage, you will not be playing a 3D game! So, your graphics card and your CPU will not be consuming lots of power and so 325W will be OK. All you need is to keep windows going untill it is gracefully turned off.

There is some information here that might help.
http://bugclub.org/beginners/miscellaneous/upscalc.html

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: Navid
Keep in mind that your supply rating of 420W is the maximum power that it can deliver (at least, that is what the manufacturer of your PSU has guaranteed). Now, this UPS can only deliver a maximum of 325W.

A good question is "Is this UPS power rating only for when there is no line voltage, or for all the time"?
I do not have the answer.
Hopefully, the answer is that this is the power rating only for when the line voltage is gone. If that is the case, the UPS will not limit the power as long as there is line voltage and your supply will set the limit.

Then, you should be OK with it since when you lose the line voltage, you will not be playing a 3D game! So, your graphics card and your CPU will not be consuming lots of power and so 325W will be OK. All you need is to keep windows going untill it is gracefully turned off.

There is some information here that might help.
http://bugclub.org/beginners/miscellaneous/upscalc.html

I would have thought that the power rating of the UPS is only for when the power gives out, when there is no line voltage. The rest of the time, under 'normal' conditions, surely the UPS allows whatever power draw is asked through it? Only makes sense

Also, power could give out whilst one is in the middle of a 3D game . Wouldn't a sub-power UPS be pretty pointless in that case? Considering of course your system is drawing huge loads of power, more than the UPS can give.

PLUS - anything else you have plugged into the UPS is also gonna want its fair share of the power. So your monitor for one. Only makes sense to have that plugged alongside your system in the UPS. A typical 19" CRT monitor is rated about 100W. Quite a chunky load then alongside your system's power requirements also.

If you think about it from that perspective, you are really gonna want to get a UPS that is rated a gd bit above your PSU i would have thought. That way if power gives out during heavy system power useage, you wont have anything to fret about.

 

[Rahabib]

ok great info. I think I get it now. I actually do game with it and also do media compression, which means it will be at a high load most of the time. I should assume to have atleast 420 + 100 for the monitor then from what I hear (~ a 500W capacity then) just in case the power goes. Otherwise if I was just interested in line conditioning I could go with anything with AVR and be ok but have pretty much a useless UPS when the power goes.

This is all good stuff. Thanks guys.

 

[pookie69]

Originally posted by: Rahabib
ok great info. I think I get it now. I actually do game with it and also do media compression, which means it will be at a high load most of the time. I should assume to have atleast 420 + 100 for the monitor then from what I hear (~ a 500W capacity then) just in case the power goes. Otherwise if I was just interested in line conditioning I could go with anything with AVR and be ok but have pretty much a useless UPS when the power goes.

This is all good stuff. Thanks guys.

According to the link that Navid posted, thats like a 700-1000VA UPS then. So one of the bigger ones. A Belkin 1000VA UPS costs ~£180 (UK).

>>> Blimey!

I suppose one must pay for quality - the power users/enthusiasts get shafted again.

Seriously - someone needs to put out a line of products, that if u can prove you are an enthusiast, you get money off. Hmm... sounds liek a plan to me!

 

[Navid]

The original poster is interested in automatic voltage regulation. This means that in some cases, there may still be line voltage, but, not enough. In that case, although there is still line voltage, the UPS is providing some power from the battery also. In that circumstance, it is not clear to me what exactly the power limit is since some of it is coming from the line and some of it from the battery.
That is why I have the question that I posted.

The monitor power will add up to the computer power, as you have mentioned, if the monitor is plugged in to the UPS also. In case of a brown-out, a monitor may not be as susceptible as the computer is. If the monitor is not plugged into the battery-supported outlet, its power will not be provided by the UPS. Of course, the disadvantage will be that in case of a full loss of line voltage, the monitor will turn off.

I would not hook up anything other than the PC and the monitor to my UPS battery-backed-up plugs. I connect things like printer, scanner, speaker, cable modem to a power strip, or the UPS plugs that only have surge protection.

You are right; if you plan to hook up the monitor also, which is a better set-up, this UPS may not be a good choice. Thanks for the correction pookie69.

 

[Navid]

To find out exactly how much power your computer really consumes, I suggest that you look at the data sheets and specifications of your different components, which you can access online from the manufacturer's sites and add them up.

Keep in mind that, the sum will be the power required if you will be playing a game while you are imaging your hard drive (all of them at once if you have more than one hard drive) and burning a DVD and burning a CD (if you have a DVD writer and a CD writer) all at the same time!

But, if you want to be realistic, the maximum power required will be much less.