Need help installing XP onto 2nd Hard Drive - Vista is on 1st HD

[GeekLady]

Hello!

Just got a new Dell Quad-core machine with Vista installed on it (didn't have a choice). Since Dell already has the main HD partitioned into 3 primary partitions (one is a header of some sort, the 2nd D: is "Recovery" and the 3rd is C: where the OS is installed), I have no choice but to install XP on a 2nd physical hard drive - which is fine as I have a Seagate 200GB drive handy.

So I'm not exactly OS or hardware savvy and need someone to show me step by step the best and easiest way to do this.

I currently have HD#2 (let's call it F: ) installed in my old computer as a secondary drive. I have XP installed on that machine on the C: drive but don't want to image it and restore it onto F: because of all the accumulated crap on it. I want a clean install of XP on F:

Should I....

1. Install XP from my old machine and transfer the HD #2 ( F: ) over to my new computer and then install the necessary drivers

OR

2. Connect the 2nd physical HD to my new machine and install XP from installation disk in CD drive?

I am aware of the issues with Vista and the need to fix the boot loader file... so I downloaded EasyBCD...

Immediate concerns/questions include:
1. If I install XP onto F: drive on old machine and then transfer to new machine, how will Vista "see" or recognize that there is another OS on a secondary HD?

2. If I install XP onto F: drive from new machine, I'm afraid of wiping out Vista... as a side note, I tried installing XP onto a separate partition on main HD of new machine (before I realized Dell had already 3 primary partitions already allocated) and got the Blue Screen of Death where Windows stalls at "Setup is starting Windows" and eventually gives me a fatal error. Although it never got far enough to ask me which drive I wanted to install it on, so I don't think the lack of a primary partition had anything to do with it. Not sure what to do about this one if I get it again...

3. Regardless of which machine I install XP on to the F: drive, I'm concerned about the drive letter assignment. When XP installation is done and I boot from 2nd HD, will the C: drive with Vista on it be hidden or not? And if not, does that mean XP will have installed itself on F: with reference to F: drive or C: drive? What about when I install apps on F:, will they be installed on F: or C: ???

Sorry, first time I'm doing anything like this... and I don't want to screw up.

Can someone give me some advice as to the best way to go about this?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Harvey]

Do you want to keep both systems, or just switch back to XP?

If you want to dual boot to one or the other, someone else will have to help you. If you want to switch back to XP, only, it may be possible. It's not a task to be undertaken lightly, but it can be done if you can locate all the XP drivers you'll need for the motherboard and onboard peripherals.

If that's what you want, I can give you some help. 🙂

 

[GeekLady]

Hi Harvey! Actually I DO want to keep Vista on the main HD because I eventually want to convert over to it... but want to use XP on 2nd HD for apps & hardware that aren't Vista compatible yet for now...

I went to the Dell website to try and locate the drivers for the motherboard and peripherals and found SOME but not all. Weird since I just got my computer last week. According to Dell's website, most of the drivers appear to be both Vista and XP compatible which means I could probably copy most of them from the backup CD that Dell supplied with all the drivers on it.. or I could download them from their website but some I may need to find some other ones elsewhere online from the manufacturer... I have most of them covered but.. probably missing some of the less obvious ones (like motherboard, chipset, etc..) Less obvious to ME that is ;-)

Not sure WHICH drivers are absolutely necessary so.... maybe you could help me with that? 🙂

Thanks!!!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: GeekLady

Not sure WHICH drivers are absolutely necessary so.... maybe you could help me with that? 🙂

Thanks!!!

Start with the motherboard chipset drivers. It's probably Intel or nVidia, and you can find them on their respective sites. Intel drivers are pretty straight ahead. I've found installing some nVidia drivers can be tricky on machines where they weren't originally installed, mainly due to the manufacturer's application (Dell, in this case).

You should also find a link to a list of them on Dell's specifications page for your model. Note the make and model of your audio, network, modem and any other device listed. Then, check your Device Manager to confirm as many of them as you can. If anything has changed in the model, the machine, itself, is reporting the actual hardware.

You can search Google for your drivers. Since your machine is new, you could also try to ask Dell's tech support for links to XP drivers for that model, or at least some links where to find them, but don't hold your breath on that.

 

[GeekLady]

Hi Harvey,

The processor is Intel, so I'm assuming the motherboard is also Intel but what do I know... I did find the chipset driver on the Dell website along with 1 of the CD/DVD-ROM drive's drivers. I just need to located the ones for the graphics card and sound card. Anything else? What about all the USB, IEEE, Ethernet, MediaCard Reader (for wireless keyboard and mouse?) - I'm assuming those are important drivers, no? Or will the system automatically "detect" them?

As for contacting Dell re: XP drivers - they explicitly state that machines shipped with Vista on it will have their warranties invalidated if I install XP on it (even on a secondary hard drive???). Either way, not willing to take that risk. However, their website does list driver compatibilities for Vista & XP, so that should help...

Thanks again!

 

[Juked07]

Dell driver support is actually quite good. I recently reformatted 3 dell computers for friends and put XP on all 3 (1 of them was Vista before that). I found all the drivers I needed quite quickly using

support.dell.com/support/downloads/index.aspx

 

[mc866]

Another option would be to do a VM for you XP install, that way you could use both at the same time and not have to boot back and forth. Not sure what all you need XP for but I've had good luck with Sun's VirtualBox and running XP as a guest and Vista as a host.

I suggest this because it's a lot less work than setting up the dual boot and Vbox is free, you just need a valid key for XP which I assume you have.

 

[boomerang]

Your XP install probably failed because of SATA issues.

Is your HD for XP IDE or SATA?

Ultimately, for the XP install to see Vista, SATA drivers are going to have to be installed in XP.

Does the XP you are using have SP1? That is a must have. Also, if your XP drive is SATA, you are going to have to press F6 when prompted and provide SATA drivers on a floppy. Yes, a floppy, as XP is not smart enough to look anywhere else.

On your drive letter questions. At the EasyBCD site they state that you really need to have the Vista drive in place before installing XP. This is so you end up with XP as C: in XP. As long as you know your drive assignments in BIOS (or what is easier, the drive size) your chances of overwriting your Vista install is nill. If both drives are the same size, this could get dicey.

When you have XP installed and EasyBCD has done it's thing, XP will be on C: in XP and Vista will be on C: in Vista. What driive letter the 'other' OS is on when in whatever OS is neither here nor there.

To install programs in XP, you will need to be booted into XP. To install programs to Vista, you will need to be booted into Vista. If you want the software running on both XP and Vista, you will need to install it on both.

I hope at least some of this makes sense.

I'll post this and edit my numerous spelling errors on the fly.

 

[GeekLady]

Hi Boomerang - you just made my day by clearing up a lot of issues/concerns I had. Thank you for that!!!

OK, the HD that Vista is installed on is a SATA RAID on new computer. The 2nd HD that I am transferring from my old machine to the new machine is an IDE ATA (Seagate) 200 GB hard drive. I'm installing XP on the IDE drive, however my SATA RAID drive is partitioned such that the extended logical drive is where I plan on storing common data to both OS's (Word/Excel documents and such) so I'm guessing I'll need the SATA drivers for XP to recognize it which is fine (I downloaded them from Dell) but I only have a CD/DVD drive - no floppy. Will that work if I just burn all the drivers onto a CD? Or can I just install those drivers later?

The XP re-installation disk that came with my old Dell computer is SP1, yes. But I'll have to call Microsoft to re-activate it because (it's OEM) I'm re-installing it to a brand new machine (different hardware altogether) - actually, haven't found the number to call yet...

I also have the Vista re-installation CD that came with new Dell machine for EasyBCD. The drive lettering issue solved in EasyBCD is a huge relief! When do I run EasyBCD assuming I get as far as successfully installing XP on the 2nd HD?

Re: installing XP.... so are you suggesting I try to install XP on IDE drive and keep SATA HD (that Vista is on) physically connected to the computer? I'll know which one it is because it'll be disk(1) vs disk(0) - and I know the size of the partition I want XP to be installed on - it's much smaller than the Vista partition.

Another question.... my C: (SATA) HD has 4 partitions on it. 3 primary partitions (that Dell created one of which contains Vista) and 1 logical partition (E: )

My 2nd (IDE) HD has 3 partitions on it - all primary. Planning to use F: (partition1) for XP, and G: and H: for backups and other data.

After EasyBCD is done configuring the OS's, will I see logical drive E: (SATA) when running XP? Similarly, will I see and be able to access data on primary partitions G: and H: (IDE HD) when running Vista? If not, is there any way I can make that happen? It's more important for me to have E: (from SATA HD) accessible to both OS's - the other 2 are not important.

Thanks again!!

 

[GeekLady]

mc, are you saying I can use VirtualBox to simulate a dual-boot machine? Would it run XP and Vista simultaneously? I'm not really clear how that works. If I use Sun's VB to run XP, can I image that "virtual drive" and restore it if I decide to revert back to an old version (read: clean/simpler version) of XP?

 

[boomerang]

Will that work if I just burn all the drivers onto a CD? Or can I just install those drivers later?

No, it will not work, but a little confused as they will not be needed during the install (XP on IDE, not SATA). Yes you can install them later. You only need them to see the Vista partition from XP (actually any partition on that physical drive). They should be in place before EasyBCD is run, a necessity if you run EasyBCD from XP.

The drive lettering issue solved in EasyBCD is a huge relief! When do I run EasyBCD assuming I get as far as successfully installing XP on the 2nd HD?

Read through the EasyBCD site carefully. They have a scenario for exactly what you are doing. (sounds as if you have)

so are you suggesting I try to install XP on IDE drive and keep SATA HD (that Vista is on) physically connected to the computer?

Yes, that is how they say to do it at the EasyBCD site. They actually say it will cause problems if you don't.

I'll know which one it is because it'll be disk(1) vs disk(0) - and I know the size of the partition I want XP to be installed on - it's much smaller than the Vista partition.

That will work, but as you said, I would also make note of the partion sizes as a fail-safe sanity check during the install.

As far as your last question, I see no reason why partitons would not be visible in either OS, but you are entering an area I have no experience in. Now, the drive letters situation will get hairy, but ......... as long as there is no OS on a particular partition, the drive letter can be changed in Disk Management. In both XP and Vista. So you should be able to make them whatever you want. Obviously if you have programs intalled to a partition, changing that drive letter within that OS, would be a no-no.

The absolute best advice I can give is to have anything important backed up. Can't stress that enough. Covering one's rear would be of the utmost importance in this case. Murphy's Law applies here.

Ummm, SATA RAID? One drive in the machine as it came from Dell? Not in RAID then. The motherboard may be capable of RAID however. Just a correction/question.

I think this is the guide I was thinking of. Searching the EasyBCD site now.

Here it is. See the warning in the pink shaded area?

 

[GeekLady]

OK super. I understand everything you said and yes, I'll go spend some time reading through the BCD site for details. Now if you could bear with me - let me list step by step what I need to do from this point on to successfully install XP onto my 2nd HD and let me know if I got it right... (this is for my sanity 🙂 )

1. Transfer IDE HD to new computer and connect cables (leave original SATA HD with Vista connected)

2. I read somewhere that I should create a new XP installation CD by slipstreaming XP SP1 with SP2 since my XP install disk is SP1 only.

3. Go into new computer's BIOS and change order to boot from CD.

4. Reboot with CD (from step 2) and pray that I don't get the blue screen of death - if prayers work, I have the option to press F6 to install RAID drivers (but I think I can do this later since technically I'm installing XP to the IDE HD, right?)

5. If Step 4. successful (still praying), continue with XP installation until complete

6. System should reboot into XP (Vista bootloader will be corrupted at this point)

7. Install Microsoft .NET 2.0 Framework from my external USB drive where I downloaded it

8. Install/run EasyBCD (and pray some more..) If all goes well, I should now be able to boot either OS

9. Boot into XP, download and install all drivers for new hardware, etc.. on new machine

10. The rest is easy from here on... (and if I get this far, I can send a thank you email to the Powers Above for preventing me from jumping off a cliff)

;-)

Did I miss anything?

 

[GeekLady]

The absolute best advice I can give is to have anything important backed up. Can't stress that enough.

Actually IDE Drive is completely empty - all my real data is backed up on my USB external Hard Drive. Is it OK if I keep that connected while attempting the impossible XP install feat? Just wondering.. But I will create a backup image of the Vista drive just in case...

Ummm, SATA RAID? One drive in the machine as it came from Dell? Not in RAID then. The motherboard may be capable of RAID however. Just a correction/question.

Oh, you are correct! My mistake. It's a SATA drive. I guess when I was looking at the device/drivers in my new computer, I saw the word RAID and assumed that's what it was. But it only came with 1 HD in it... so that could be an option they're showing?

I think this is the guide I was thinking of. Searching the EasyBCD site now.

Here it is. See the warning in the pink shaded area?

Wow! The Neosmart website is the exact page I had bookmarked for my XP installation! Cool!.... 😀

 

[boomerang]

1) Good

2) You certainly could if you want. But SP3 is out, why not go all the way?

3) If needed

4) Yeah, that blue screen is bothering me. I've been giving this some thought. I'm not certain what the problem is in that regard. If you can capture the error message you can Google it. I'm not certain at this point that it's SATA related, it may be RAM related. It could be a BIOS issue in that although there are SATA ports on the board, they are emulated by the BIOS to be IDE. To compound it, a Dell BIOS typically does not offer a lot of flexibility. This may be a big obstacle to get by. You may need to slipstream drivers into the disk too. I'm thinking out loud, because I'm not certain what's going on. You've got a motherboard that was never expected to run XP on IDE. But your intended XP drive is empty and hopefully you have the time to mess with it. (I'm actually surprised that a Dell has both SATA and IDE available.)

5) - 10) are good.

 

[SolMiester]

Geeklady, you could just install the 2nd physical drive into new dell, and use VMware Convertor to virtualise your existing XP machine onto the 2nd hard drive, then use VMware server 1.4 to have both o/s running at same time, put sharing on on the XP VM to share files, too easy!

 

[GeekLady]

OK Cool. I slipstreamed XP2 with the original XP installation disk and created a new install disk. Was a piece of cake. For anyone who's interested in doing this, please visit: http://www.simplyguides.net/gu...ing_autostreamer.shtml

Yes, I now reformatted my F: drive, so it's clean as a whistle. Created a small 50MB FAT partition as a buffer at the beginning for the system in case it needs to use it for something (I notice the other drives have it too - for MBR? Partition addressing? I don't know..) and created a 2nd 30GB partition for XP. Now I'm ready to jump in as they say. I'll keep you posted and let you know what happens.

Btw, that "Blue Screen of Death" is addressed in the links below... the actual error msg that appears is "Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware configuration problem" Now I got this when I put the original WinXP SP1 installation disk into the NEW computer's CD drive (no extra HD's attached) and tried to install XP.... not sure what difference it will make if all I do is physically add a 2nd HD... I should also mention that when I tried to do a clean installation of XP on my OLD computer, everything was fine and installation proceeded without a glitch... so it MUST be hardware-related. The old computer came with XP already installed, so it's an OEM version. I wonder if the OEM versions can be installed on a new machine at all if it's hardware dependent? There's gotta be a way...

Anyway, here are the threads I found related to this in case you're curious:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314477 (which really didn't answer my question)

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au...rchive.cfm/598936.html

http://www.windowsnetworking.c...-Startup-Problems.html (Good one for troubleshooting)

http://www.rselby.net/xp_error_messages.htm (even better - offers solutions to each error)

 

[boomerang]

Created a small 50MB FAT partition as a buffer at the beginning for the system in case it needs to use it for something (I notice the other drives have it too - for MBR? Partition addressing? I don't know..)

I think I've seen what you are referring to, but it's something created by the OS install. No need for you to do this IMO, but there is certainly no harm in doing so.

In regards to this error you're getting. If there are XP drivers for your board/chipset I would slipstream them into your CD. I think this is the only chance you have of getting this to work, but ........

You say you've got an OEM version of XP. Is this OEM in that it came with a Dell, HP, Compaq or whatever? Or is it OEM that was purchased to install on a custom built computer?

If t's OEM from a major manufacturer, you've gotten the kiss of death. Ain't gonna work. Hardware dependent as you have surmised.

 

[mc866]

Originally posted by: GeekLady
mc, are you saying I can use VirtualBox to simulate a dual-boot machine? Would it run XP and Vista simultaneously? I'm not really clear how that works. If I use Sun's VB to run XP, can I image that "virtual drive" and restore it if I decide to revert back to an old version (read: clean/simpler version) of XP?

Not sure if anyone answered your question yet, but Virtual box works as a program within the main OS. So right now I have Vista installed as my main OS, but I have a virtual box installation of XP. There are plenty of good guides on the web on how to do the install but basically when you open up Virtual Box you start by adding a guest, and you do a complete XP install from within Vista, the best way to do this I've found is to rip your XP disk to an ISO and run it from a harddrive. Once the install is complete you can launch XP from virtual box at any time from within Vista, so it isn't a dual boot because you don't have to switch back and forth, you can run both at the same time. Hope this makes some sense.

Sounds like you are getting to where you want to be so I don't know if this was helpful or not. I also used nlite to get the install as small as possible, this program allows you to remove unwanted items from XP.

 

[GeekLady]

Originally posted by: boomerang
You say you've got an OEM version of XP. Is this OEM in that it came with a Dell, HP, Compaq or whatever?

If it's OEM from a major manufacturer, you've gotten the kiss of death. Ain't gonna work. Hardware dependent as you have surmised.

Yep, it's the XP installation disk that came with my Dell - but I'm not the first one to come across this I'm sure. There has to be a way that I can somehow transfer the license over to the new machine. After all, people DO upgrade their computers.

Yes, I'll keep in mind the slipstreaming of the device drivers onto the install disk. Good idea.

But before I do this, I have a new problem as of last night. I just moved my Seagate Ultra ATA/100 (IDE) HD over to my new computer only to discover that I haven't a clue where to plug it in as my new computer has a SATA drive in it (different kind of port) and I suspect the mobo is SATA-enabled. I have the jumper cable that came with the Seagate drive but I need some kind of converter to connect the two. I don't know how to do that. I know there are converters out there but not sure what I need.. I may have to call Dell support to find out.

Anybody have any clue how to do this? I want my IDE drive to remain internal.

Thanks again...

 

[GeekLady]

MC, I'm going to definitely keep this VirtualBox in mind, thanks for mentioning it - still don't know whether I'll be able to install XP onto it though if my OEM XP install disk is hardware dependent. My IDE drive is not the original one that came with my old computer unfortunately - though I'm not sure that would do the trick either. I don't know enough about OEM's and how they work or what's required to make them work in order to install/transfer the OS from an old computer to a new one.

 

[boomerang]

Yep, it's the XP installation disk that came with my Dell - but I'm not the first one to come across this I'm sure. There has to be a way that I can somehow transfer the license over to the new machine. After all, people DO upgrade their computers.

Hmm, methinks your SOL. Actually meknows. That OEM version you have is tied to the BIOS on the motherboard of the system it came with.

I just moved my Seagate Ultra ATA/100 (IDE) HD over to my new computer only to discover that I haven't a clue where to plug it in as my new computer has a SATA drive in it (different kind of port)

Yep, you need an adapter. I told you earlier I thought you'd have no place to plug in this drive although I may not have made it clear enough.

(I'm actually surprised that a Dell has both SATA and IDE available.)

Converter

You said earlier that you wanted to have XP for both software and hardware. I haven't gotten involved in the VM discussion but you might want to make sure that a VM "solution" is truly a solution. In other words, can you run software and interface with hardware in a VM scenario.

Good luck with this project. 🙂

 

[GeekLady]

Hi Boomerang,

Yes, you are correct. I ended up ordering an IDE to SATA converter (the one that plugs into a PCI slot) to fix the problem. I expect to receive it next week.

And you are correct about the OEM version of XP. Can't install it on a new machine so I'm looking to buy a new license, ie completely new version.

I suspect I should have no problem doing the XP install on the 2nd HD once these 2 things are taken care of.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[boomerang]

You're welcome.