Need help for my first ever overclock !

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
If you have time, please try to other a few of the questions below, although you dont absolutely HAVE to answer them....Just have a look at the discussion in the posts below...I really need all the guidance I can get...Thanx :D


Hey guys....Im thinking of finally giving overclocking a try on my year and a half old rig, and see how things turn out.. Im gonna use this thread to walk ask all my questions in... I decided to make a new thread because the last one was only meant for getting some guides, which I found lots of :)...it was getting side tracked....

Anyways, here are my opening questions. I know they are a lot, but Im a first timer at this, so please bear with me, I need all the help I can get. I also like to do my homework before I decide to take the test :D .....


1) In many OC DB's, I have seen people quoting codes such as CCBBE 0615 EPMW in their entires. I believe they are either called OPN, or PR numbers, dont know which. I found out that they are only written on the CPU chip itself, and on the stock HSF that comes with it. Is there any other way to retrieve this number, because I dont want to open up my system ? :)

2) As far as I know, the acceptable vore range for my processor (Opteron 165 Denmark Dual Core 939 Pin) is 1.30v~1.35v...So wouldnt that limit the max vcore voltage I can use? And hence, also limit the processor's overclocking capabilities ?

3) How previous will be the vcore voltage, if i use the 'Special VID Control', to increase the percentage ? Will the final floating point value be rounded off ?

4) what is the role of the chipset, and the chipset voltage, in the entire overclocking process, if any ?

5) My Memory is rated DDR500, so I should be fine with upto a 250 FSB. Does this means that I dont have to mess with the latency timings, provided I keep the FSB at 250 or less ?

6) Say I want to take the FSB beyond 250, and I still want a 1:1 ratio, then do I need to change the latency timings ? I think thats a yes, but not sure ...If so, how ?

7) what is the difference between the RAM divider and the RAM ratio ? I found a guide claiming that they are different things..

8) Is it required to change the ram's latency timings at all ? When can we get away with use OCing the rest of the system, and leaving the latency timings as they are ? Right now, the latency timings in my system are all set to AUTO.

9) What is the recommended HT Link speed ? Some people say that 1000mhz is ok, but we shouldnt go beyond that...while others suggest to lower this. But isnt lowering the HT Link kind of like 'underclocking' your system ? I know that HT Link doesnt necessarily mean a faster system, but still I thought I should ask this.

10) specifically, which hardware depends on the FSB speed ? I am asking this because if I change the FSB, I would where else to expect changes from in the system...changes like increased temperatures, etc..

11) FSB is something physically deployed on the motherboard itself, as far as I know. So if I increase the FSB, it would put more load on the motherboard itself. Is this true ? If yes, will it increase the motherboard's temperature) ?
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
hey thanx for the link graysky, i didnt come across that guide,..ill read it in a while.....But please try to answer the questions I have posted above. Most of the questions I am asking, I already have the answers for them, but that is just me, a newbie at this thing; I need actual OC'ers to *confirm* them... Plus, most of them are also not specifically answered in guides too, or at least not in the ones I have read so far. For example, all guides more or less explain what FSB means, and how it controls the data transfer rate, etc....but there's no guide that I have come across, which tells about its other properties, e.g. what other hardware components depend on the FSB, apart from the CPU, RAM, HT, etc.. (Question # 10)...
 

graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
Dude, you posted way too many questions.. it would take 20 min to address them.
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Well I cant proceed with the OC procedure unless im clear about these things...
if you cant answer all, then please answer some of them ?!
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,250
16,108
136
The overclocking guide answers all your questions, read it ! Then if you have a clarifying question, go for it. The only one that is a "for sure" is that you need to keep the HTT at or below 1000 or the computer may not post or be stable.
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
OK well, I finally decided to give the actual practical stuff a shot...and I enjoyed it quite a lot ;) ...

For the time being, I only tried to find out the max speeds of FSB and CPU.. I didnt take a shot at the RAM right now.....Please have a look at the results and suggest to me what should be my next move:

Finding the MAX FSB speed:

Here's what I did...I set the following in the BIOS:

HT Link Multi = 2x
CPU Multi = 6x
RAM ratio = 133

Then, from windows, I started the 'in-place fft' torture test (aka max heat/power consumption test). I started off from 200mhz FSB. Then every 2 to 5 minutes, I would use ClockGen to increase the FSB by 5 Mhz....Here are the highlights of this procedure:

=> Went upto 255mhz with no problems :)
=> When I tried to go from 255 to 260, the computer froze at the exact moment when I clicked on 'Apply Settings' in ClockGen (like when you see the button as being pressed, and it stays like that). When I rebooted, I went straight to 260mhz, and it worked ! And then after that I restarted the 'in-place fft' torture test in Prime 95....

=> The above again happened when I tried to go from 260 to 265...
=> The above again happened when I tried to go from 265 to 270...
=> When I tried to go from 270 to 275, the computer froze again. But now this transition didnt even work when I tried it *before* restarting prime 95, after rebooting, like it did in the previous cases...

So uptill 255mhz, I had no problems, and the max FSB I could reach through any possible means,was 270..


Finding the MAX CPU speed:

Here's what I did...I set the following in the BIOS:

HT Link Multi = 2x (same as before)
CPU Multi = 9x
RAM ratio = 133 (same as before)

Then, from windows, I started the 'small fft' torture test. I started off from 200mhz FSB. Then every 2 to 4 minutes, I would use ClockGen to increase the FSB by 5 Mhz....Here are the highlights of this procedure:

==> I went upto 225mhz on the FSB (2036mhz on the CPU) with no problems
==> When I tried to go from 225 to 230, ClockGen crashed, although it had managed to increase the FSB before doing so...Everything else was fine...probably just some error :p

==> When I tried to go from 240 to 245, the system rebooted....I when into windows again after reboot, and tried going straight to 245, without Prime 95 running...again, the system rebooted...

So the MAX CPU speed I got was 2166.6 Mhz (when FSB was 240mhz)...

Heat Issues:

In both the above tests, I didnt get any heat issues...There were hardly any temperature changes at all...The CPU was 43~44*C at max load, at 2166 mhz ...so no problem there...

Questions:

1) Regarding the low overclock I got on the FSB (255 with no problem), I read in a guide that one of the causes for this is when you have a SATA plugged into SATA1 or SATA2...This applies to me......Should I try SATA3 or SATA4 then ?

2) I think to get better CPU speeds, I wud need to feed the CPU with more volts, since temperatures werent a problem at all......I know, I know, many Opty 165 owners have successfully added more volts to their Opty 165's, but please have a look at this PDF:

http://products.amd.com/en-us/...n_Reference_101607.pdf

My CPU is the one right at the bottom on the first page....According to this PDF, the vcore limit is just 1.30v~1.35v......Wouldnt this be a problem ?


Please, at least answer these 2 questions....:p
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
OK, here's another update then...

Today, I tried to find the MAX FSB for my board again...

Here are some changes I made in how the experiment was to be performed:

==>I changed FSB from the BIOS, instead of using ClockGen
==>I increased the vcore voltage from stock to 1.375v
==>I used Prime95 version 25, instead of the old 24...
==>The 'in-place fft' test was run for longer periods now, between 5 to 10 minutes..

The other properties are as follows:

RAM ratio = 133
HT Multi = 2x
CPU Multi = 6x

I was able to go upto 270 again, like before. But a 275mhz again posed problems: the system wouldnt go into Windows !

I investigated this issue...and found the reason (at least I think) why I cant cross 270mhz on the FSB...

As soon as I changed the RAM ratio from 133 to 120, the system allowed me access to windows again....I ran Prime 95 with no problems...


But when I tried 280mhz from the BIOS, the system again wouldnt go into windows....I tried coming down 1 unit at a time from 280, to find the exact MAX....and suddenly, another problem faced me : My hard disk wouldnt get detected, not even in the BIOS !! Fortunately the problem was fixed, thanx to the CMOS reset concept...

The increase in vcore voltage didnt have any positive effect on the FSB then...

So at 280mhz, and a ram ratio of 120, the RAM is running at just 168 mhz.....

I doubt the RAM is limiting the max FSB....what else could be the cause then ?
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
I think I am just chatting with myself here.....someone please have a look :(...I really wanna overclock my system.....

Regarding the matter why I cant reach higher FSBs...

Possible causes I have come up are the following...tell me what you guys think...

1) Try using a HT Link muti 3x, instead of 2x...I heard some boards have problems with 2x..
2) Try increasing the chipset voltage..
3) update the BIOS's version...

Regarding the 3rd point:

An observation I made, while I was going over some OC DB's, that people with original DFI BIOS'es, generally have a lower FSB overclock, than those having 'other' BIOS'es...

'other' BIOS'es, such as OCZ Tony's 704-bta (I think that is what its called)....

People with official DFI BIOSes generally have a max FSB below 300...ranging from 250 to 280..while those with the latter Tony one have max FSB's above 300, ranging from 310 to 350...

Although there were many exceptions to the above observation, I think that the BIOS version as matters when it comes to finding the MAX FSB for your board....What do you think ??
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Can someone please read this topic ?? It feels like I have been talking to myself for days now..... :( :(

OK then, I tried the max FSB and max CPU speed experiments AGAIN :D :

Finding MAX FSB speed attempt #3:

BIOS settings:

Constants:
HT Link multi = 3x
RAM ratio = 133:200
CPU Multi = 6x

Variable:
FSB speed

Other Settings:
All changes done through the BIOS, not ClockGen !

Procedure:

I started off from FSB = 270 mhz....

With 270mhz, I could NOT boot into Windows....

==> Changed DRAM voltage from 2.60v, to 2.70v

Now, I COULD boot into Windows, at FSB = 270mhz

Tried 275mhz........wont boot....

==> Changed Chipset voltage from 1.50v to 1.60v

Still could NOT boot into Windows with FSB = 275mhz

==> Change 'PCI eXpress Frequency' from 100mhz to 101mhz !

STILL, I could NOT boot into Windows...

Conclusion:
==> The following factors are NOT limiting the FSB speed:
i) DRAM voltage
ii) Chipset voltage
iii) PCI eXpress Frequency


Question:
If the above factors are not limiting the FSB speed, what is ?????

Also, right now, all the RAM timings are set to AUTO.....I have not yet tried inputting the timings at which my RAM is stock rated (3-4-4-8 @ 250mhz)




Finding MAX CPU speed attempt #2:

BIOS settings:

Constants:
HT Link multi = 3x
RAM ratio = 133:200
CPU Multi = 9x
PCI eXpress Frequency = 101mhz

Variable:
FSB speed

Other Settings:
All changes done through the BIOS, not ClockGen !
The in-place fft test from Prime95 v25.5 was run for about 10 minutes, after each change

Procedure:

I started off from FSB = 240 mhz....
Kept increasing 5mhz after each successful attempt...
I went all the way upto 270mhz on the FSB successfully !! Thats 2429 Mhz :D :D !!


Conclusion:

I didnt recieve any errors in the in-place fft test in Prime95 v25.5 ....

So I DONT think the CPU is a limiting factor so far...

I didnt go past 270mhz on the FSB myself, because the FSB has stability issues beyond this point :( ........

Also, the vcore voltage was still at STOCK (1.30v~1.31v)...I didnt need to increase it :D

Even at full load at 2429 mhz, the CPU's temperature remained about 48*C ~ 50*C...the MAX ever reached was 52*C...not bad :)

Question:
What can I do to further test the stability of the CPU at higher FSBs ? I know about running tests for longer hours, etc.... But everyone / every guide gives its own method, duration, 'stress program to be used' details....Can someone recommend the *main* stress tool... ?
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Another attempt...which failed...

Settings similar to the ones before, only this time, I tried the using the stock timings of my RAM as well,--> 3-4-4-8-1T.....again, it failed...I couldnt boot windows with 275mhz FSB :( ...tried 3-4-4-8-2T...again failed...

Here are the exact settings I used (for 3-4-4-8-1T):

http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=53454884xq3.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/my...?image=93070447ci6.jpg


In addition to that, I also tried shifting the FSB from 133 to 140, 150...still nothing..

In addition to *those*, I then changed vcore to 1.425v (0.125v more) , chipset voltage to 1.6 v (0.1v) more....STILL NOTHING !! :mad:

Dont know what is causing this...

I think that whatever is causing my FSB speed to not reach 270mhz, is something to do with the RAM....why ? Because the ONLY 2 times when I WAS able to boot into windows, at 275mhz (!!!!), was when I did either of these 2 changes:

1) Change RAM ratio from 133 to 120
2) Increase RAM voltage from 2.60v (stock) to 2.70v

But even then, I was again not happy, because then I could not reach 280mhz :p
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
OK, yet *another* attempt....

Same basic settings as before, but this time, I set the RAM to 4.5-7-7-12-2T......the first 3 numbers are the highest my motherboard cud allow...

Result ? My computer wont even POST now!! thats a first !! :mad:

Had to reset the jumper to get it live and kicking..

Here's the RAM settings I used:

http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49590642ls6.jpg
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
YES !!!! IT WORKED !!! 300mhz SUCCESSFULL !! :D

OK,..normal again :) .....I was able to boot into windows, with an FSB of 300mhz !! FINALLY I broke the 270mhz~280mhz limit !!

The settings I used were exactly as they were before...The only change was a CPU Multi 9x, instead of 6x...

I was using 1.425v when I booted, which worked.. :)
So I tried switching to a lower vcore..1.375v...still worked :D

Also, just to confirm this, that the 6x CPU Multi was the problem, I tried switching back to 6x CPU Multi..... Result ? The computer wont POST :( ...

Had to reset the jumper....Thats twice I have had to bring my rig back from the dead in the last 24 hours :) ...


Anyways, what should I do now ?
Should I try to check whether the computer is stable at these settings before going any further ?
Should I try to go for even higher timings ? Beyond 300 ?
Or should I work on the RAM timings, etc ??

Also, should I use a 9x CPU Multi from now on, with higher FSBs ? Note that this wont exactly mean 'removing a variable from the equation' :)

Anyways, here are some screenshots of the EXACT settings I used...

http://img142.imageshack.us/my...?image=80158466ia5.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/my...?image=19891899ar2.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10rp8.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11bw8.jpg
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
I think I am just chatting with myself here.....someone please have a look ...I really wanna overclock my system.....

I would recommend making your posts single spaced, and less of a book. You can't cover 72 subjects, when you've only got PostIt notes to write on. I've tried reading your first post about three different times, and haven't gotten halfway through it yet, and I don't have A.D.D.

Should I try to check whether the computer is stable at these settings before going any further ?
Should I try to go for even higher timings ? Beyond 300 ?
Or should I work on the RAM timings, etc ??

Keep your RAM speed low, until you reach your "final" overclock. After that, you can see how high the RAM speed can be raised, and/or the timings can be tightened. That's always the first step in overclocking, making sure your overclock failures aren't RAM-related, and that goes double for Athlon 64's.

For stability testing, use either Orthos or Prime95, small FFT's for testing your CPU. Set your vcore to Auto, plus 110%. When you start working on your RAM, you're going to have to tell us what RAM you have, and I can tell you the proper values for your board. And yes, overclocking raises the temperatures of every component in your system, besides the drives and the video, and other PCI cards.
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Well I am only giving more details, so that the readers understand the situation better :)..

OK then, here are the latest headlines :) ...

I used a 166 RAM ratio, a 300mhz FSB, and a 1.35v vCore, along with the previously mentioned RAM settings...

I did 1 hour in Prime 95....no errors...:)...

Same settings, for 310mhz FSB...1 hour in Prime 95...no errors again :D...

Then I ran into a problem...

with a 166 RAM ratio, going any higher on the FSB meant more pressure for the RAM...even at 310mhz FSB (above), the RAM was already operating at 257mhz...7mhz faster then its factory speed...

To deal with this, I tried the following 3 options, all of which resulted in different kinds of errors:

1) FSB = 320mhz, RAM Ratio = 166, RAM latency = 4-5-4-8-1T...(caused a no-POST situation :( )
2) FSB = 333mhz, RAM Ratio = 150, RAM latency = 3-4-4-8-1T (so RAM is at 249mhz)...No Windows...
3) FSB = 320mhz, RAM Ratio = 166, RAM latency = 3-4-4-8-1T ....I COULD boot into windows, but Prime95 immediately threw an error when I started its small fft test :(


I could have tried giving either CPU and/or RAM more voltage in (3) above, but I didnt try that....CPU approaches 53*C when I give it any more than 1.35v...

Need advice...
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Drop the ram to the 133 ratio, ramspeed doesn't mean squat on the NF4 platform and with AMD's onboard mem controller you can often overclock the CPU farther if your ram is running less than the rated speed.

My son's X2 4200 acts this way, by dropping the ram below spec I can overclock it an extra 200mhz on less vcore, and CPU speed is way more important than ram speed.
 

djspl

Member
Jan 21, 2005
85
0
0
Originally posted by: ahmadka
Can someone please read this topic ?? It feels like I have been talking to myself for days now..... :( :(

yes, and you are doing a great job of teaching yourself how to overclock your computer, as everybody can see by the progress, trials and errors youhave gone through. Sometimes talking to yourslef is just fine and keeping this thread going is probably helping you stay pretty organized. nobody is ignoring you, we just know you are going through what eveery overclocker goes through. "Let nature take its course"

 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Well I guess you are right to some extend djspl....but even a baby needs to hear english being spoken..only then will he pick up the words :)

All I'm asking is for someone to get me out of the sticky spots.....

I dont wanna wreck my computer, just cuz i risked doing everything myself :p
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
OK, suppose I wanna move onto the RAM now, seeing that I have found the 'limits' for FSB and CPU...I want some advice on how to go about testing the RAM through memtest on boot....

I know that I start from 'loose' timings, and then I start tightening them up, but here's the thing......My RAM is rated at 3-4-4-8-2T@250mhz ... So far, I have only tried 'loosening' the timings twice....both time, the computer went into a no-POST situation...the timings I had tried were 4.5-7-7-8-2T, and 4-5-4-8-2T I think.....So please guide me on this..
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
You don't want to use timings any higher than 3-4-4-8, so just leave those timings at Auto. The real problem with DFI motherboards is how tight they set the subtimings, when left at Auto. Also, you're gonna need to set some of your other memory timings, to something safe, that works with most types of RAM (you never said what type of RAM you have). For most RAM, these settings work pretty well:

tRC:15
tRFC:18
tREF: 1560
DQS Skew Control: Auto
DQS Skew Value: 0
DRAM Drive Strength: try 6, 5, 4
DRAM Data Drive Strenth: Level 4 (Reduce 0%)
DRAM Response Time: Normal
Idle Cycle Limit: 128 always works, you can also try 064

Of course, it would work much better, if you'd just say what RAM you own.:laugh:
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Thanx for the reply...the RAM's exact model is OCZ5002048ELGE-K...its a UCCC chip RAM, which is stock rated for 3-4-4-8-2T@250mhz....

So lemme get this straight.....ur saying that I should NOT go above 3-4-4-8....Then how do I 'loosen' the timings that everyone goes on about ?

Also, ur saying that I just change the other settings ? (apart from the 3-4-4-8 values)
 

ahmadka

Senior member
Sep 6, 2005
340
0
76
Well I decided to skip the RAM thing for now, cuz my brain has really stressed out over the past days......phew...time to check the stability..

I ran Orthos for a little over 8 hours @ 2794mhz....Guess what ? No errors, and CPU temperature remained around 50~51 too...

My system is now officially stable at 2794 Mhz :D :D ...... I cant believe I did it :p

I have also made my *very* first OC ever !! Its at DIY Street ...check it out:

http://www.diy-street.com/forum/showpost.php?p=766304&postcount=434

Thanx to everyone who has helped me out here so far :D