Need help, first system build in 4 years!

SpongeBob

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2001
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I need a system without PCIe or PCI-x and I want no less than 4GB of RAM and the P4 3.8. This PC is going to be coupled with a data acquisition system and will also be used to process and analyze large amounts of data. I don't need much graphics capabilty. The last time I built a system was 2001 so I need some help. This is what I configured myself. Priced it out to about $2200 and I can't go much more than that. What do you guys think?

CPU/HSF Intel Pentium 4 570J 3.8 GHz
M/B ASUS P5P800
RAM 4X OCZ Performance Series 184-Pin 1GB DDR PC-3200
Hard Drive Seagate 160GB Barracuda 7200.7 7200RPM SATA
Video ASUS nVIDIA GeForce MX4000 Video Card, 64MB DDR, 32-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP
Sound Integrated
Optical Plextor 12X DVD+/-RW Drive, Black, Model PX-712SA/SW-BL
Case EverCase Black ATX Mid Tower Case
PSU ENERMAX Noisetaker Series 470W Power Supply, ATX 12V V1.3
OS WinXP Pro SP2 OEM
 

Nessism

Golden Member
Dec 2, 1999
1,619
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Seems okay. My only small nit pick is to say that Plextor is overpriced considering lower cost drives like the NEC have better performance and compatibility. Another comment is to say that the Silentpcreview crowd really like the Evercase 4252. I haven't used one myself but I trust it's a good case.

Good luck.

Ed
 

alexXx

Senior member
Jun 4, 2002
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if you feel like throwing your money away, why not get an fx55. it will be a LOT faster than a 3.8 p4 POS.
 

SpongeBob

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2001
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Originally posted by: alexXx
if you feel like throwing your money away, why not get an fx55. it will be a LOT faster than a 3.8 p4 POS.

If this were my personal system I would. Unfortunately it's not and I'm not allowed to go that route. Fortuanately it's not my money! The only instructions I got when my boss told me to get this was to get the P4 3.8 and 4 GB of RAM.
 

Chosonman

Golden Member
Jan 24, 2005
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Originally posted by: alexXx
if you feel like throwing your money away, why not get an fx55. it will be a LOT faster than a 3.8 p4 POS.

The P4 will be for multithreading apps which is better for what he plans to do. The FX is faster in games and bull dozing sigle applications.

I would go DDR2 RAM just because you have the money to and at least 200 GB HD just because you have the money to, and throw in a 6800GT just for fun pci-e (just kidding about the graphics card but it won't put you over budget i think will it?)
 

SpongeBob

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2001
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Originally posted by: Chosonman
Originally posted by: alexXx
if you feel like throwing your money away, why not get an fx55. it will be a LOT faster than a 3.8 p4 POS.

The P4 will be for multithreading apps which is better for what he plans to do. The FX is faster in games and bull dozing sigle applications.

I would go DDR2 RAM just because you have the money to and at least 200 GB HD just because you have the money to

Is there a DDR2 platform that doesn't also have PCIe?
 

ddviper

Golden Member
Dec 15, 2004
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ya get a pci-e mobo, and if u need more cash, go with a standard 6600 vanilla in pci-e get ddr2 memory, and get a larger hdd
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
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Your best best would to get an Opteron instead. Apparently wasting money on shitake hardware is better than paying a programmer to fix a few bugs.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,652
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126
Basically I sympathize and understand what SpongeBob wants to do. But if it is for "data acquisition", I can't see where the 570J 3.8 gets you a lot more than a lesser P4. Even database management applications should run just fine on a slower machine.

But that being said, there is also no reason if you are building a new machine that you should avoid staying current with the more recent processor entry. So I won't argue the point about the processor choice, or I won't argue it too strongly, but I have some caveats for you to consider.

I considered this motherboard as a possible means to upgrade from socket 478 to socket-T LGA775, without springing for DDR2 and PCI-x graphics. That is, this is the forte' and advantage of the P5P800 mobo.

The disadvantage arises in that the board offers SATA150 onboard drive connections and controller, but no native ICH5 Intel RAID controller. If you are happy one one or two hard drives used in the conventional manner and have no need to open up the disk storage bottleneck beyond the throughput provided by individual SATA150 drives, then fine. The fact is, RAID-0 doesn't really buy a lot of extra speed except for manipulating large files, as in video-processing, for instance.

AGP graphics, at least in the generations beyond your existing choice, should be perfectly adequate for casual game applications for the near future. In addition to that, PCI-x graphics has not yet proven to show really stunning performance improvements for those types of games. And SLI at this point mostly involves taking two PCI-x graphics adapters which run individually as PCI-x (x16) and utilizing them as x8 PCI-x devices.

That being said, I looked at your price-tag here and for some reason I think you could trim it down by at least $600 if you are willing to give up the 3.8 570J processor. You could drop back to a slower and less expensive processor and over-clock it to get nearly the 3.8 Ghz speed. I'm currently using a 3.0C Northwood (~$200 retail) over-clocked to 3.6 and just shy a few hundred points from the PCMark04 benchmark Intel themselves posted for the 570J CPU. A 3.4E LGA775 processor might cost you about $315 and OC'ing it to 3.8 would hardly stress it. The reason I say this again, also, is that you have chosen to spend money on last year's memory modules that are still top-drawer, what looks like a three or four year old graphics card, and a processor that has been on the market for only a few months and costing about $780.

You could eventually move the processor to a PCI-x /DDR2 platform, but you won't be able salvage your DDR400's -- as far as I can see now with the exception of a VIA chipset and unreleased motherboard. Moving to an AMD platform, given currently available information, you have to give up the CPU and motherboard but you can salvage the memory.

I'm just saying -- if you know the value of a dollar -- you should be aware of the upgrade paths beyond your current choices.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,652
2,033
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PS [People here will notice that I am plagued with afterthoughts, and I drop these post-scripts in as though I had special privileges . . . ]

Why do you need 4 gigabytes of RAM? I say this, even knowing that you are doing some "massive" data manipulation. Maybe I'm just a tad behind the times and the technology, but for database technology, business applications, mathematical simulations and a host of other things, I really don't know why you need more than a gigabyte. And if you do use more than a GB, benchmark programs like Sisoft Sandra would recommend ECC memory, which is more expensive. Gaming enthusiasts could be content to live without ECC. I need to check again, but I'm not even sure that the P5P800 accommodates ECC memory.

The other drawback of stuffing your DIMM slots with 4 GB is the matter of your "upgrade path". If you decide you need to put the 4 GB up for sale, the loss in absolute dollars will be greater than for a more modest 1 or even 2 GB set of DDR modules. And in addition to that, your "virtual memory" and swap-file on the hard disk will be commensurately larger to match that 4 GB of memory.

If you decide to trim back your system memory, you will also save more than just a few more ducats, which you could put aside anticipating newer motherboards, better graphics adapter, and so forth.
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
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DDR2 sucks for latency.

As for the swap file thing, set it to be a constant 1024mb. There is no reason to have it match how much ram you have in size. Only the hibernation file needs that.

Apparently his application is mission critical; overcloking then is a no-no for two reasons. Voided warranty and stability.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,652
2,033
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Um. Yes. That's a possible catch-22. Even so, unless he's simulating nuclear weapons and explosions, I can't see where 3.8 Ghz buys him all that much. If it is more something like running SAS, SPSS, econometric time-series analysis, technical analysis of the stock market or forecasting, even a GB is more than adequate.

Also with the memory. Those types of applications, or even some sort of data collection devices -- are just not going to require that much memory. True, you can fix the virtual memory size to limit the swap file, but why spend double or quadruple the bucks on more memory if it isn't going to be fully utilized? With databases and number-crunching, no good DBMS is simply going to load 4GB of data into memory. Has anyone ever heard of a 4 GB spreadsheet? My cousin has been using computers in his business for 20 years, and the accumulation of business data, business graphics and photographs, contact databases, word-processing documents and accounting files is still within 6 GB in size. Yet when would he have occasion, or when would the software he uses allow him the occasion, to load it all into memory simultaneously?

That being said -- I have argued with friends when we built our "over-clockers" for fun, games and diverse usage -- that even 2 GB may be more than necessary for video processing, while 512 MB may be insufficient. I know there are benchmark results available somewhere that would allow a comparison of a 1 GB and 2 GB system. Does anyone have something concrete to add to that observation? I could always be wrong, and I'm interested in "other perspectives" on this.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,652
2,033
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"DDR2 sucks for latency"

And that's why this time in the PC-industry seems like more of a time to "wait and see". For instance, Intel and for that matter AMD said they were going "dual-core" for two reasons: faster processor capability, and to accommodate the thermal power issue. But we're looking at next year's entry by Intel of a heat-leaking dual-core processor with thermal design power exceeding 120W.

Is there any news that AMD is going to adopt DDR2? Or is that prospect even possible for AMD? There are just too many uncertainties and too many standards afoot at the moment.
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
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AMD will probably do gor DDR3 because it has DDR2 speeds and DDR latency. Thats why so many video cards use it.

I've seen the sims 2 eat 1400mb of Ram (that's 1400mb physcial 370mb paged)
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: alexXx
if you feel like throwing your money away, why not get an fx55. it will be a LOT faster than a 3.8 p4 POS.

Agreed, A 3500+ winchester (or san dieago in a few months) will out perform Intel 3.8 in most benchmarks.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: ribbon13
AMD will probably do gor DDR3 because it has DDR2 speeds and DDR latency. Thats why so many video cards use it.

I've seen the sims 2 eat 1400mb of Ram (that's 1400mb physcial 370mb paged)

Correct, High bandwith and low latency. DDR2 sucks. DDR1 and DDR3 kick ass!
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: ddviper
ya get a pci-e mobo, and if u need more cash, go with a standard 6600 vanilla in pci-e get ddr2 memory, and get a larger hdd

The 6800 vanilla is the same price but faster and un-lockable.
 

ddviper

Golden Member
Dec 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck

Is there any news that AMD is going to adopt DDR2? Or is that prospect even possible for AMD? There are just too many uncertainties and too many standards afoot at the moment.

no the Athlon 64 processor cannot use DDR2 based on its current architecture, becuase the north-bridge is built right into the chip. to use ddr2 or ddr3, they would need to change the whole architecture of the chip.
 
Jun 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: alexXx
if you feel like throwing your money away, why not get an fx55. it will be a LOT faster than a 3.8 p4 POS.


depends the calculations, P4 is faster at a certain type and Athlon better at another type, some one else will have to fill you in though as im not too knowledgable

anyway youve been told, 4Gb of Ram and a P4 so lets leave it at that. i dont really think you need the 3.8Ghz but if thats what the boss wants then thats what your gonna have to give him

[/quote]

Agreed, A 3500+ winchester (or san dieago in a few months) will out perform Intel 3.8 in most benchmarks.[/quote]

whoever said this needs to think again, benchmarks do not = reality, intel will be fine, if a little hot

to me that looks good, no need for PCi express as he doesnt need any graphics horse power, just needs lots of ram, and fast CPU thats good at multitasking. this side of a dual xenon rig, the P4 is the next best thing

wait and see if you get a response from some one who actually works in what your doing, and they can give you pointers
 
Jun 14, 2003
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Originally posted by: ddviper
Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck

Is there any news that AMD is going to adopt DDR2? Or is that prospect even possible for AMD? There are just too many uncertainties and too many standards afoot at the moment.

no the Athlon 64 processor cannot use DDR2 based on its current architecture, becuase the north-bridge is built right into the chip. to use ddr2 or ddr3, they would need to change the whole architecture of the chip.


err wrong, the only bit built into the chip is the memory controller, there still has to be northbridge to let the chip communicate with everything else. yes it would need rewire for DDR2, but it wouldnt need the whole chip to be changed, just the memory controller
 

ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
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a dual xenon rig?

two xbox2's in a beowulf or something? lol. 2x (2x dualcore PowerPC 970s) would be nice.