Need cpu/mb/mem/case - How to spend my $1500?

[LintMan]

Ok, my old system is limping near death after I shipped it cross-country, so after a few unlucky attempts to stabilize it, it's now time for the big swap-out.

I've got up to around $1500 to spend on a new CPU, motherboard, RAM, power supply, and case. (I'm keeping my optical drives, SATA HDs and 9800Pro).

I only can afford a big CPU/MB/RAM upgrade like this once every 2-3 years, so I'm aiming to get the best performance I can afford right now (without going grazy and spending $800-1000 on a cpu). Also, since it's likely I won't be getting another new mobo for several years after this, I want this one to have PCI-e support for my eventual next vid card upgrade. Last time around, I wasted a lot of money on getting overclockable components and cooling stuff, with *zero* luck in actualy overclocking , so this time around, I'm thinking strictly stock performance; no fancy heat sinks or super duper OC-able memory. After my current headaches, I just want something fast but very stable.

The first decision needs to be which CPU to get:
I've been looking at the AMD 3700+ ($468, socket 754), Intel P4 560J ($449, LGA775), and AMD 3800+ ($635, socket 939).

$635 seems like a shocking amount for the 3800+ CPU, which is only rated 100MHz over the 3700+ -- is there much benefit to the newcastle core and socket 939 over clawhammer and socket 754? (BTW, I'm planning on buying a retail CPU and using the included stock heat sink).

Is there any good, solid motherboards with good PCI-e, SATA, USB, LAN, and 1394 support for socket 754? I don't care about or want RAID or on-board audio/video. What about for LGA775 or socket 939?

Next question: how much RAM is considered ample these days? 2GB? How much to spend on RAM to get "plug-in" high performance with needing to futz with all sorts of mobo settings or trying to overclock it?

Last question: Will using the stock heat sink on a non-OC'd CPU be heat-stable in a standard, relatively quiet (ie: not loaded with lots of high-rpm fans) case? Are the PS's that come with cases these days any good, or should I plan on buying a separate 400W (or more?) PS? (Sorry for the off-topic drift here!)

 

[CheesePoofs]

If you want to go pci-e you will have to replace your graphics card, its an agp card. If you are going to be spending that much money, i would definately recomend spending 400 of it on a 6800gt, you will get much better framerates than with a 9800pro.

Go with an amd socket 939 setup, and with the nforce4 chipset if you want pcie. I'd recomend the A64 3500+. I think its worth spending a little less on the CPU and getting a new graphics card, it will give you much more of a speed boost than just upgrading the cpu.

1 gig is ample for almost every use of your computer. For the athlon setup, i'd just go with value ram. You will see almost no speed gain if you get gaming ram over value ram, and value ram often costs half of what gaming ram costs.

The stock heatsink will be fine for an athlon 64, they run very cool.

Most power supply's that come with cases are junk, look for one that has at least 20 amps on the 12v rail, but 24 or more would be better.

 

[imported_waldo]

You don't have to drop your graphics card, because he can grab a mobo that has PCI-E and AGP. I would go with AMD socket 939 (Intel user here!). As far as socket stability and support, I think that is the way to go...wait a little bit though for the Nforce 4 boards to hit the market and come down in price.

I'll go with Cheespoofs as well on the CPU, the 3500 has been cranking some nice numbers out, and no need at this point to throw flippant cash around for small performance increases.

I would actually go with more than 1 gig if you are going ot hang on to this thing for a while. I run 1.5gb and love it, but sometimes i run out of memory space (granted I do run some large 3d apps). As a min nowadays I would throw in 1 gig, but 2 is awfully comfy!! Especially if you can get dual channel. And yeah, Value Ram should do you just fine...just get a respectable brand like Corsair or Mushkin.

And as far as PSU, Cheesepoffs has it again....get a solid 12v rail, if you can get a mobo that supports 2 12v rails, even better. Look to OCZ, as they are putting some nice ones out these days.

Stock Heats will be fine, just get a nice quiet case, with some 120mm fans in it. In my opinion, the noise factor is a real killer to a lot of cases. You may even want to buy some quality Nexus fans or Panaflo's to throw in there...oh and get a quiet PSU as well!

 

[CheesePoofs]

There are very few pcie/agp motherboards, and IIRC, gigabyte made one but put a warning on it that you shouldn't use an agp card in it for extended periods of time, because it would cause permenent damage to the card. Plus they force the card to run slower than if it were running in an agp slot, because the bandwith is reduced drasticly.

 

[zakee00]

Dont get a pcie/agp mobo. what they actually do is make a pci (yes, original pci) to agp adapter and call it AGP. so your card will be CRIPPLED by the transfer rate. this is common knowledge, do a search if you dont belive me.

 

[matthewcoo]

If you have 1500 bucks I would go with everything below. All this from NewEgg except Processor and Mobo were Ebay purchases...

CASE ANTEC|MID TOWER SONATA RET N82E16811129127 12/20/2004 10:12:44 AM 1 $99.99
DUAL DDR 1GB|PC3200XLPT CORSAIR RT N82E16820145523 12/20/2004 2:09:14 PM 1 $248.00
CPU THERMPASTE|ARCTIC SILVER5 3.5G% N82E16835100007 12/20/2004 2:09:14 PM 1 $7.59
CPU FAN A/IZALMAN CNPS7000B-CU RT N82E16835118113 12/20/2004 2:09:14 PM 1 $47.99
CASE FAN|ANTEC SMARTCOOL120mm 75012 N82E16835129033 12/20/2004 2:09:14 PM 1 $21.49

3500+ Winchester about $330 at the time I got it.
Asus SLI mobo about $230 at the time I got it.

Thats only $985.

With $500 extra bucks get another 6800 card or upgrade to a FX55 or 53....

If you get another vid card get another PSU otherwise you should be fine.

 

[Bernin]

i just spent a little over 600 bucks on a new system but i plan on overclocking it, but for you i would recommend one of the 3500+ for 939 since they seem to be a nice value and a gig of ram from corsair or ocz would be good since they both have pretty good timings. I decided on getting a gigabyte k8nf-9 motherboard for 939 which has pci-e. dual gigabyte lan and usb as well as firewire, theres more but you can look that up. you'll need a new videocard which you shouldn't feel guilty about since the performance jump from the last generation is relatively large. From what i've read, the ATI X800s and the 6800s rely differently on cpu processing since they are both limited to the processing power of the CPU such that the 6800's preform better at lower resolutions where the stress is on the cpu while x800's preform better at very high resolutions where the card is stressed more. If your heading into the 4000+ cpu range and run games at high resolutions than ATI might be the way to go, their even higher-end cards are coming out at the end of january and feburary while pci-e nvidia cards seem to be overpriced somewhere from $20-60. Modular power supplies seem to the growing trend since they reduce cable-clutter, i'd recommend something over 400 watts especially if you're going for a high-end nvidia card. The antec neopower or an ultra x-connnect 500w would be nice choices IMO. Stock cooling would be fine and aren't really an issue for a non-overclocker but you could use a thermaltake silentboost which gives improved cooling for minimal sound. As for a case, there is one for every personality but some good choices if your a fan of a brushed aluminum design is the lian-li v1100 which is quiet and stylish or an antec p160 which is of good construction and cooling but a little cheaper in price. It is my experience that most antec beige-bombers are good cases for the money but it's up to you. You figure 450 for gpu+200 ram+100 psu+150 mobo+150 case+ rest on cpu which is 400. Obviously these are nice round numbers which will adjust depending on your choices, hope this helped some.

 

[ts3433]

I would pick a nice case (Antec, Cooler Master, Lian Li) and PSU (Antec, Seasonic, Fortron, Enermax; ~400W would be good) and pick up some Corsair or Mushkin value RAM. Then get something a little less expensive, like one of the cheaper Winchesters (these are practically guaranteed to OC, but the 3500+ is still an option if you're reluctant) and an NF3 mobo (NF4 Ultra--non-SLI--if you already have a PCIe card). The huge remainder can probably be put to upgrade something else right now or saved to do another upgrade sooner if you want (or swap out the board if you find you need PCIe sooner than expected and the CPU is still adequate, even with some OCing).

 

[LintMan]

Thanks for the ideas/info everyone! I completely forgot that I'd still need an AGP slot for my current video card - duh! I only bought it last year, so I was hoping to stretch out its use, and then upgrade to a PCI-e card next year. Sounds like that's not a good option since dual AGP/PCI-e isn't what you'd expect. I'll have to see if I can sell my used card to help finance a new PCI-e one.

As far as spending less on a cpu now and saving that money to upgrade later - unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, since almost all my computer budgeting must be approved by The Wife. If I don't spend it now, I probably won't get a chance to spend it later!

I'm surprised no one recommended the intel option - is intel's price/perf not up to par right now?

Thanks,
-LintMan

 

[CheesePoofs]

Intels for the most part slightly cost more, run slightly slower, and run hotter than the athlon 64's. They still run great, but there's really no reason to get one unless you do something that runs much better on an intel (like encoding). Stick to an amd, you'll be happy.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Nothing specifically wrong with Intel, I just built an A64 system because I decided the value proposition was better. My new system absolutely screams (see below). It runs rings around any P4 system I have at work.

I'd hang onto the AGP card for now if I was you. PCI-E I feel is still too new and the first generation of cards doesn't give enough of a delta to be worth the extra cost (at least that's how I see it). But definitely the 3500+ is an excellent CPU for the money, I love it myself. If you're just doing a new mobo/CPU/case than you should have the room to get something like a 3800+.

Oh, and what the hell is anyone talking about a combo AGP/PCI-E board for? What a joke. Don't touch that with a ten-foot pole.

 

[CheesePoofs]

I would strongly advise against getting the 3800+. They cost almost twice as much as the 3500+ and only give you 200 extra megahertz, and don't even give you a 10% boost in clock speed, which turns out to be an even smaller boost in real world performance.

Personally, i don't even think the 3500 is worth it, but im cheap .

 

[Dadofamunky]

Actually, he's right. I wouldn't get the 3800+ in preference to the 3500+; particularly since I've got my 3500+ performing on a par with the 3800! Never mind.

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
I would strongly advise against getting the 3800+. They cost almost twice as much as the 3500+ and only give you 200 extra megahertz, and don't even give you a 10% boost in clock speed, which turns out to be an even smaller boost in real world performance.

Personally, i don't even think the 3500 is worth it, but im cheap .