Need camera advice

[CP5670]

What is a good digital camera around the $200 range for a more or less average user? I'm a noob with cameras and have no idea where to start looking. 😛 It should be reasonably good at taking pictures indoors as well as close-up shots of things. I'm a Lego hobbyist and will mainly use it for taking pictures of my models, along with occasional photos of computer parts and anything else I want to sell on ebay.

I was previously using using my parents' old Sony DSC-P100, which has generally worked well although it could be better with color accuracy (possibly just because I didn't know how to configure it right), but I have moved since then and don't have regular access to that anymore.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: ElFenix


<obligatory canon SD series post>
you basically can't go wrong picking a canon SDxxx model. they're pretty much the benchmark.
</obligatory canon SD series post>


also take a look at the panasonic FX series

another thing about the FX series: they've all got IS.

 

[OdiN]

Another recommendation for the SD series from Canon.

It'll start out with just ebay pictures. Then you'll take a few on a trip with friends. And before you know it you'll be spending thousands on L glass and bodies and such 😛

 

[CP5670]

Thanks. How do these models compare? I'm willing to go a bit over $200 if it's worth it, although not by too much.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16830120196
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16830120208
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16830120223 (somewhat more than I was looking to spend, but this one seems to advertise low light capabilities specifically)

As I said, my main priority here is indoor pictures, so it should be fairly good at low light situations (compared to outdoors anyway). One issue with that P100 I had earlier was that blue colors looked too bright with the flash, and everything was really bad without any flash.

It'll start out with just ebay pictures. Then you'll take a few on a trip with friends. And before you know it you'll be spending thousands on L glass and bodies and such

I don't really go on vacations, actually. I'm a classic couch potato. 😀

 

[Jawo]

Originally posted by: OdiN
Another recommendation for the SD series from Canon.

It'll start out with just ebay pictures. Then you'll take a few on a trip with friends. And before you know it you'll be spending thousands on L glass and bodies and such 😛

No joke! I followed a similar path!

Another vote for the Canon SD series for a basic (but very good) point and shoot, or the A series for something with more options. A great site to compare cameras is DP Review. You can compare pretty much any camera currently on sale with any other.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: OdiN
Another recommendation for the SD series from Canon.
It'll start out with just ebay pictures. Then you'll take a few on a trip with friends. And before you know it you'll be spending thousands on L glass and bodies and such 😛

QFT!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CP5670


As I said, my main priority here is indoor pictures, so it should be fairly good at low light situations (compared to outdoors anyway). One issue with that P100 I had earlier was that blue colors looked too bright with the flash, and everything was really bad without any flash.

It'll start out with just ebay pictures. Then you'll take a few on a trip with friends. And before you know it you'll be spending thousands on L glass and bodies and such

I don't really go on vacations, actually. I'm a classic couch potato. 😀

the SD870 has a proper wide angle.

i'd get an SD1000 over an SD750. SD1000 is under $150 from time to time.

FX-30, imaged stabilized, proper wide angle, $200. lens is a little slower on the tele end than the SD750, but then again the FX-30 has image stabilization.


edit: forgot link, newegg seems to have raised the price $5 just because i looked at it.

 

[CP5670]

*two month bump*

I became busy with some things earlier and this purchase sort of fell by the wayside, but I've looked into it a lot more during the last few days. I think I have a better idea of what exactly I'm looking for now, ideally anyway:

good white balance and accurate colors, especially under incandescent lighting
fairly good flash
reasonably low noise, edge distortion, fringing or other artifacts, at least on low ISO settings
image stabilization
memory card should appear as a normal external drive when the camera is connected to a computer (this is highly preferable)
3" screen

I'm looking at cameras more around $250-300 at this point. I will probably be using this for a few years, so I figure it won't hurt to spend a bit more if it will be worth it. Although at the same time I'm basically a casual user and don't want to shell out for an SLR. My understanding is that these point and shoot cameras are generally not good at higher ISO settings and often require flash to get good pictures indoors. This should be fine for my purposes though, assuming that the colors turn out okay.

I have kind of narrowed it down to a couple of models now: the Canon SD850 and SD870, and Panasonic TZ3 and TZ5. The SD850 generally seemed to do the best on DP Review's tests, but the SD870 has a bigger screen and a wide angle view. For both of the Canons, I have seen some complaints about ergonomic issues, like the design/placement of certain buttons and the cameras being slippery to hold. The Panasonics seem to be better in this respect, just from the pictures I've seen. I especially like the TZ5's big, high resolution screen, but it's on the expensive side and I have also read about the TZ3 (which is apparently similar) producing blurred images due to aggressive noise reduction. Is this a problem in practice? I will be heavily downsizing the pictures anyway (probably to 1600x1200), as they will be primarily used for viewing on a computer and not printing.

What is the practical benefit of wide angle, by the way? Is it useful for indoor shots?

 

[ElFenix]

the TZ series are a lot larger than the SD series.

wide angle is very useful for indoor shots. you can't back up much indoors to try to get everything in. with a wide angle lens you don't have to back up as much to do so, so you're more likely to get the shot. i'd take a move to a 28 mm wide from 35 mm and trade 50 or even 100 mm telephoto any day of the week.

 

[CP5670]

the TZ series are a lot larger than the SD series.

I noticed that too, but the difference in the dimensions doesn't seem that big. I'm mainly attracted to them for their 3" screens (and the fact that reviews confirm you can download images off them directly without any software; don't know for sure about the Canons).

As for the wide angle, I can definitely see now how that would be handy. Are there any shortcomings? Some reviews of the SD870 said that the wide angle results in distortion at the edges, although I haven't heard of any issues like that with the two Panasonics.

 

[FriedToast]

Originally posted by: OdiN
Another recommendation for the SD series from Canon.

It'll start out with just ebay pictures. Then you'll take a few on a trip with friends. And before you know it you'll be spending thousands on L glass and bodies and such 😛

Everything he said, except substitute F-mount glass for "L glass" 😉

That being said, since you're going to be shooting legos, make sure that whatever you get has a decent macro function! If you try something out in the store and the macro mode sucks, well... don't buy it. You'll end up being disappointed.

And with THAT being said, as far as P&S cameras go these days, I think you might actually have to work hard to find one that doesn't take great shots. Whatever you buy will most likely take great shots. Just need to decide on which options you want/need and then narrow the list down from there.

One thing to keep in mind, if you're doing close-up shots, you can add a Nikon Speedlight to your mix for lighting. They've got an SU-24 setting that will let you sync it to your built-in flash (no cabling necessary).

But if you get a flash, then you'll have to start hanging out @ www.strobist.com and then you'll be back in here wonder which DSLR to buy and THEN, Odin and I'll have to have it out over who convinces you to buy which company first (Nikon vs. Canon) 😀

 

[CP5670]

Thanks for the tips. The Canons seem to have a smaller (which I think is better) macro focus range than the Panasonic ones. I will need to check them out in a store and see how much of a difference it makes. It looks like DP Review also put up an article on the TZ5 just yesterday. I'll take a look at it later.

Do any of you know whether the Canon SD line requires special software (aside from drivers built into Windows) to download images? I'm seeing conflicting reports on that, and it's an important factor for me.

But if you get a flash, then you'll have to start hanging out @ www.strobist.com and then you'll be back in here wonder which DSLR to buy and THEN, Odin and I'll have to have it out over who convinces you to buy which company first (Nikon vs. Canon) 😀

Just what I need, another thing to become obsessed with and drain my wallet over. 😀

 

[yllus]

Did anyone ever copy that laser hologram focusing mode from some Sony handheld digicams? I thought that was pretty neat.

 

[FriedToast]

Originally posted by: CP5670
Do any of you know whether the Canon SD line requires special software (aside from drivers built into Windows) to download images? I'm seeing conflicting reports on that, and it's an important factor for me.

I've NEVER used Canon's software for DLing pics 😀 I did try out their photo-stitching software once on a lark (I bought PTGui a few years ago and am very happy w/ it, so didn't need any other stitching software). I was surprised at how well it worked.

Anyway, back to loading pics... just throw your SD card into your PC and do the Drop n Drag in Explorer. Simple as that. They're just standard jpegs, so nothing special is necessary. Anyone that says differently is probably smoking crack 😉 If you got a higher end Canon that shoots RAW, then you might have to get an update for that- I don't know, tho'- don't know how proprietary the Canon RAW are. I installed the MS Raw Viewer and have been good to go so far w/ my Nikon RAW (D80 is well-supported, the D300 not so much).

 

[CP5670]

Excellent, that's what I wanted to hear. 🙂 I hate portable devices that make you use additional (usually bloated) software to do something so simple, and it becomes doubly inconvenient if you want to upload stuff to someone else's computer.

From the DP Review article, it looks like the TZ5 is not that well suited for what I'm trying to do. I guess it basically comes down to the Canons having better image quality (for my purposes anyway) and the Panasonics generally having better features and ergonomics. Although as you said, the IQ difference may be insignificant in practice.

Also, how much of a difference does the sensor size make? I have heard that the larger sensors on high end cameras are one of the main reasons for their superior image quality, but I'm noticing that almost all of the point and shoot models I see have seemingly smaller sensors than my four year old Sony P100. They're around 1/2.5" or so as opposed to 1/1.7" on that P100.

 

[FriedToast]

From people that know more than I do:
DSLR Buying Guide: Intro to Sensors, etc.

DSLR Sensor Size & Pixel Density

And, last, but not least, a bit from Ken Rockwell. If you don't know who he is, you will once you join the DSLR club (eventually 😉 ). Take everything he says w/ a grain of salt. However, don't throw the baby out w/ the bathwater. He can rile up pretty much the entire photographic world (mostly the Nikon side), but if he was always wrong, no one'd even pay attn to him:
Ken Rockwell's take on sensors

 

[CP5670]

Well, those articles all seem to agree on this issue, that a bigger sensor is better at least when you're looking at the point and shoot models. I think the last link is only disagreeing with that when it comes to the bigger SLR sensors.

Obviously, the last thing I want is to actually have a degradation in IQ coming from that P100. I noticed that one of the more expensive Canon P&S models, the SD950, has the same 1/1.7" sensor size, although it doesn't have some other things I like about the SD870.

 

[CP5670]

bump, any opinions on this issue?