Need another rig to setup a network, what should I do?

[coolred]

I will be going back to college this summer, studying networking. I would like to get a network setup at home to experiment with. I currently have a decent performing rig, its a couple years old for the most part, but it works fine. It has an ECS K7S5A, AMD Athlon XP 2100+, ATI AIW 8500DV, 220 gigs over 3 drives, a Liteon CD burner and DVD drive, blah blah blah, oh yeah 512MB of crucial 2100, running XP Pro.


ANyways, I got in on the deal for the free copy of Windows Server 2003 SMall Business edition a while ago and was considering putting that on the other rig, I also want to start playing with linux on one of the computers. I have built a few computers in the past, so i have the know how to build one myself, but I am wondering if I should build a new one, or try to find a used one from somebody I can get a good deal on, or wait for dell to have another deal on one of thier power edge servers, or maybe even one of thier regular computers.

I don't need this thing to be a powerhouse, since it will not be used for gaming or video editing or anything, but I don't really want something that I will most likely have to replace in a couple years just because it can't handle Longhorn or something like that. SO I am just looking for opinions on what to do.

I don't really know much about the dell poweredge servers, like the 400SC, I know a lot of people get them from hot deals when dell sells them cheap, but what advantage do they provide over one of dells regular models, or one I can build myself?

 

[coolred]

Having trouble editing the post, so sorry for the reply, but I just wanted to say that money is an issue, would prefer to keep it under 600.00

 

[crimson117]

There are often decent poweredge servers in Hot Deals for $399, so you can easily find a cheap server at Dell for <$600 even with a monitor.

 

[crimson117]

Or this gateway for $518 shipped, before a $50 rebate:

Rebate: $50 mail-in rebate (not reflected in price, limited time promotion)
Operating System: No operating system included
Server Management: Gateway Systems Manager
Processor: (1) Intel® Celeron® Processor 2.4-GHz with 128K L2 cache
Memory: 512MB PC2100 DDR ECC SDRAM (2 - 256MB modules)
Hard Drive: (1) 60GB ATA100 7200rpm IDE hard drive
Standard Disk Controller: Integrated Three Channel (Two ATA100, One ATA66) IDE Interface
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44MB diskette drive
Optical Drive: 20x min./48x max. IDE CD-ROM
Extended and On-site Service Programs: 1Yr parts, labor, HW tech support, on-site -- next business day, limited warranty
Video: Integrated ATI Rage XL 32-bit PCI Graphics w/ 8MB SDRAM
Keyboard and Mouse: 104+ keyboard and PS/2 Mouse and Gateway Mouse Pad
Power Supply: Single 250-Watt Power Supply
Network Card: Integrated Intel® PCI 10/100/1000 Twisted Pair Ethernet
Gateway Enterprise Products Guarantee: If for any reason you aren't completely satisfied with your Gateway® Server or Storage product, you can return it within 90 days of purchase
Part Number: 1007477

 

[coolred]

I will have to check out that gateway. I know I get discounts from both dell and gateway, but I doubt they apply to servers. One question I have though is this.


Like I said this computer won't likely be used for heavy gaming, maybe a little, but only if my other computer is being used at that time, which I doubt. So is the differance in cache size between the celeron and P4 gonna make any differance, if this is just used as a server and possibly as a internet/word processing rig?

 

[coolred]

Man this sucks, I checked with dell and surprisingly my discount did apply to thier servers. The bad news is that they are way overpriced like that. The 400SC starts at 499.00 with the celeron. Thats crazy.

 

[jvang125]

if you're not looking for a powerhouse server, what's keeping you from using that $600 to build a decent one from scratch. mostly likely it'll be more powerful than the Celeron servers from dell.

cpu and mb combo - $150 (ECS and Athlon 2600+)
512MB DDR - $100
80GB HD - $100
tower and ps - $60
kb and mouse - $30
cd-rom drive - $30
NIC - $10
video - $40
___________________
estimated total $520

after you install windows 2003 server you dont need a monitor any more. just set up remote desktop and you can configure all the server settings from your main computer.

i have a small network of 1 server and 2 workstations going with remote desktop running to configure the server remotely. my server is running a SLOW 677mhz Celeron with 384MB SDRAM. it's not super fast but enough to allow me to learn. it can even run a few dedicated game servers too.

 

[coolred]

Theres nothing keeping me from building my own rig, hence the reason for the first option in the poll being "home built rig". I was just trying to figure out what exactly was so good about the 400SC's. I know they go like crazy over in hot deals all the time, just thought that might be a better option, but I have no idea. Plus I would really have to look at the cost and everything, I mean with some of the deals dell has, i could probablly get a darn good deal through them on either a server or regular computer.

 

[coolred]

Oh yeah, I also have the itch to upgrade, and I am afraid that if I build my own computer, I might build it with the parts I want, rather then just what i need. So if I go that route, i would ahve to keep myself in check.

But man Nforce 3 250 with gigabit LAN, hardware firewall, and support for the 64bit athlons just sounds awesome.

 

[coolred]

For those of you choosing home built rig, if you could please include a small list of parts you would use, i would appreciate it. It will help me decide what to put in mine if I go that route

 

[coolred]

I just remembered I have a duron 650 capable of at least 866 laying around, think that would be good enough for the server?

 

[DaveSimmons]

1-user dev servers need RAM more than anything else -- for Win2000 server plus SQL server, 512 MB is fine. For running additional MS server apps at the same time (Proxy, Exchange, etc.) you might need 768. I haven't installed Win 2003 Server so I can't say whether it needs more than W2K.

My home W2K dev server is a Tualatin celeron 1.3 and it's quite fast enough (running an IIS-based course management server plus Foobar 2000 for music at the same time, no hiccups).

The duron 650 is probably OK (at 650 -- don't overclock a server), but getting a Duron 1.6 or XP-anything might make more sense.

Since this is for education not "real" bsuiness use you don't need ECC RAM. Getting the Duron or a P4 Celeron might make sense to take advantage of cheap PC2100 RAM.

Be sure to run RAM testing software on whatever you set up -- server apps and installs are much more sensitvie to a bad or erratic RAM stick than desktop apps and games.

 

[zodder]

Oh yeah, I also have the itch to upgrade, and I am afraid that if I build my own computer, I might build it with the parts I want, rather then just what i need. So if I go that route, i would ahve to keep myself in check.

LOL! I hear that! I was just going to buy a new peocessor to upgrade my Dell server, but by the time I was done, I had a full blown power Intel rig that cost me $300 more than I was ever going to spend. And I still have the original Dell in the original configuration!

 

[zodder]

Oops! I forgot to answer the poll.

I'd buy a cheap Dell, hands down. If you're in the dorm, you will REALLY appreciate how silently the Dells run.

 

[JBT]

I'd go home built with 600 you should get a good rig also you will be able to make it pretty quiet.

 

[coolred]

Not in a dorm, I live on my own with my fiance and son.


600 is the max I would want to spend, cheaper is always better as it is just for educational purposes.

 

[airfoil]

You could get yourself a P3 or Athlon used rig for a lot less than $600 (probably more like $200). Since its going to be primarily for messing around with, why bother buying new parts?

You could then use the money saved by buying some other goodies to setup that network.

 

[coolred]

Yeah I know buying used would be cheaper, but I am not sure I like the idea of buying used when I have some extra parts laying around, and if I build my own I can get it exactly what i want. But then I guess like you said, it is just for learning, so really as long as it is stable and can run the stuff I need it to run, I guess thats all that matters.

I won't be starting school until June, so i have some time to decide what route to go with.

 

[coolred]

Also while I am waiting for school to start I have some free time and was considering picking up a copy of Hacking Exposed: Network Security Secrets and Solutions, Fourth Edition to read. Do you think this would be a good book for a novice to read?

My main intrest with networking I think would be in a security related field, so it seems like it owuld be a good read. But I am just wondering if maybe it may be too much to start with.

 

[exar333]

price out a nice but not expensive duron system...or even a cheap low-end opteron stystem would do you really well...you can almost always get a good deal on a refurb OEM opteron on newegg...get some nice RAM and a decent case....no problem...

 

[coolred]

How would I benefit from an opteron? I know its a server processor, but I don't think i need that kind of power. Correct me if I am wrong. I had considered making my current rig a little less powerful, by using parts from it or selling some and then building a new Athlon64 based rig, but I am leary of going with that yet, since to my understanding they will be switching sockets(939) before too long.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You don't need an opteron, no benefit at all from that much overpower in a 1-user setting. Like I said above even your Duron 650 is probably fast enough if you give it enough RAM.

I've set up W2K + SQL server on a celeron 667 with 320 MB RAM and performance was a little slow but tolerable, and W2K (without SQL) running an Apache-based server product on that box was perfectly fine.

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You don't need an opteron, no benefit at all from that much overpower in a 1-user setting. Like I said above even your Duron 650 is probably fast enough if you give it enough RAM.



I've set up W2K + SQL server on a celeron 667 with 320 MB RAM and performance was a little slow but tolerable, and W2K (without SQL) running an Apache-based server product on that box was perfectly fine.

put the Duron in the K7 and put the 2100+ in an nf2 mobo..use the ECS setup as the server ..and the nf2 setup for your main rig ..you'll thank us also..you should grab up some of that BestBuy Kingston pc2700 512MB ram(pay attention to the individual chip markings..take a magnifying glass ) ..last day of sale today @ $55 a stick after MIR ..

 

[coolred]

Little to late yo get to BB tonight, but I will keep a look out for some deals, although it seems as though RAM prices are on the rise right now.


That idea sounds good though. Drop the duron into the K7S5A add in one of my extra hard drives, and my crucial, etc....

Then transplant my 2100+ over to an Nforce 2 board.


One problem with this setup though is that the ECS board doesn't have onboard video. Not only do i need the video, but I would prefer it to be DVI for my 1800FP. I have that from my current 8500DV. I know I can runt he server remotely, but will the dang thing even boot without a video card? Somethings tlelling me no, but I can't remember for sure. But if thats a problem i could always get a cheap vid card.

 

[coolred]

Also can someone give me a conformation on AMD changing there sockets on the AMD64's? I was pretty sure I had read that they will be going to 939. I am almopst certain that is correct for the FX53, but not sure if it also applied to the regular Athlon64 as well. I would love to jump on the 64bit bandwagon especially with an Nforce 3 250Gb, but not if it means I have to get a new MB just to upgrade my proc in a year or so.