Need another car reco from you guys

[z1ggy]

You don't have to state how many hp you want; it's implied. Americans love power, and manufacturers keep boosting it. So everyone uses the excuse that you need it to merge onto highways. 40 years ago, people were doing that with under 100hp and extremely slow cars. I won't name names, but a guy in ATOT said he lusts after an BMW X5 M as a family hauler.

And LOL at saying the Model Y scores well in reliability, while the Lexus ES does not. 🤷‍♂️

Btw I'm not trying to be snarky. Good luck with the search! I implied MY 2019 or 2020 vehicles to hit your price target; good to see you have the Stinger on the list. I think the G70 is probably too small for a family sedan, and the G80 is an old car up until MY2021. The Lexus IS is tiny in the rear; it's also a no-go.

No Honda Accord hybrid?

I meant without reliability factored in here, the Model Y looks much better than an ES. Adding in some kind of score for reliability that is consistent across all models will help to elevate cars like the ES and push down something like a Tesla.

To your point, I think I also might want to add rear leg room as a factor and maybe remove cargo capacity or at least reduce the weight a bunch. This car is for daily commuting, and dropping kids off at school... The wife's SUV is used for grocery getting, traveling to places with "stuff" and so on.

For the Accord I will add it... but it's so... Common. I think I mentioned above, but if not... I fully realize that Im likely to end up buying a car that doesn't objectively score *that* well, because most decisions we make are in fact emotionally driven and somewhat illogical. An Accord would no doubt be a great choice but it doesn't excite me. I keep cars for a while... I still want to enjoy what I'm sitting in every single day.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You don't have to state how many hp you want; it's implied. Americans love power, and manufacturers keep boosting it. So everyone uses the excuse that you need it to merge onto highways. 40 years ago, people were doing that with under 100hp and extremely slow cars. I won't name names, but a guy in ATOT said he lusts after an BMW X5 M as a family hauler.

And LOL at saying the Model Y scores well in reliability, while the Lexus ES does not. 🤷‍♂️

Btw I'm not trying to be snarky. Good luck with the search! I implied MY 2019 or 2020 vehicles to hit your price target; good to see you have the Stinger on the list. I think the G70 is probably too small for a family sedan, and the G80 is an old car up until MY2021. The Lexus IS is tiny in the rear; it's also a no-go.

No Honda Accord hybrid?

Been a while since I sat in one but I remember the IS being pretty damned tiny in the front too.

Then again I am America-sized.

 

[z1ggy]

I added in a few things based on your feedback.

• Ioniq, Accord Hybrid, Mazda3 (what I have now) and Prius Prime
• Rear Leg room measurement and Brand Reliability scores from KBB
• Changed the weightings a bit to be more realistic

This will obviously change once real prices go in here once I go on cars.com to see what's available. If I change all the prices so they are identical, the top 10 just sort of flip around in order, it doesn't' change a ton.

One thing I'm thinking of adding if I can find it is to replace price with TCO, which will further factor in quality & other things like depreciation.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Keep in mind that EV/Plug-in Hybrids leases still get that $7500 incentive as of today. That may change some of your numbers. On top of that, some EV that are selling poorly have additional incentives. There are few models out there that are 9-10k off right now if you lease.

 

[Ken g6]

I see you're listing "Ioniq" without a number. Be sure not to confuse a used Hyundai Ioniq, which are efficient but slow hybrids or short-range EVs, with Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 6, which are faster, longer-range EVs.

 

[Brainonska511]

LOL at thinking you'll need 300hp and launch control to merge onto highways.

If fuel efficiency is a top concern, you're kinda stuck with the Lexus ES or even better, a Model Y. At least you'll know the boring and slow Lexus is very reliable.

If you can live with 30 mpg, then Audi A6 or the 5 Series could work too. Pricing may be an issue, and you already know about maintenance costs.

I've driven plenty in the Northeast with shit highway on ramps and "highways" with strip mall driveways galore and never felt that the 9 sec 0-60 acceleration offered by a Fusion and an Elantra were an impediment to driving on these roads.

 

[deadlyapp]

So I built the "objective comparison table" that I spoke about above. I equalized for price just to pretend for the time being that no matter what I did... I paid the same for any car on my list. Obviously not going to happen, but I wanted a baseline. I have a copy of the table with all the '23/'24 new pricing, and I will have another copy where I put in actual prices based on what's available near me.

This gives me a tool to at least filter out 1/3 or even 1/2 of the options that I won't even bother pursuing. I won't explain how I made the table, but if anyone wants to know, I will explain it.

With the data I have and the weighting I've assigned to the things that matter to me right now... Pretty hard to argue that a Tesla or MachE shouldn't be a strong contender. Little surprised to see the Stinger up there but I suspect that will change a little bit once real pricing goes in.

One thing I want to try and add in is a reliability score. Something like a Model Y is going to score really well on paper while the Lexus ES is not. But, reliability is going to factor into my decision.. so hopefully I can find a place like Edmunds, etc that ranks all of these cars on some kind of scale.

It's funny - I came in here to suggest the stinger - first car I thought about even given the badge.

 

[z1ggy]

I see you're listing "Ioniq" without a number. Be sure not to confuse a used Hyundai Ioniq, which are efficient but slow hybrids or short-range EVs, with Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 6, which are faster, longer-range EVs.

It's the 5. One thing I did read online though is it requires special coolant that "only Hyundai" can change for you because it's proprietary and it costs $700, needs to be done 3yr cycle. Not using this coolant voids your warranty although I'm not sure how anyone would tell unless it's a special color or something.

 

[sdifox]

Hyundai Ioniq 5 Owners, Don't Forget To Check and Change Your EV's Blue Coolant

The popular all-electric crossover has pink and blue coolants. But one costs a lot more than the other and needs to be replaced regularly

www.autoevolution.com

It doesn't have to be 700. You can get it for 50-60 per gallon for the genuine article.

use your compressor to vacuum fluid

 

[rstrohkirch]

I just looked up the lease numbers on the kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5. Kia has better money factor across the board, except for Ioniq 5 SEL trim which has a lower money factor than the other trims. It also seems various dealers are offering additional incentives in some states because inventory on these is starting to pile up. I'm seeing $2-3k additional offers online.

So, money factor is ranging from .0017 to .0021, $7500 lease incentive and dealer additional incentives with a 36/15 residual of 56%. Knowing this, I could lease a $52k AWD EV6 or Ioniq 5 SEL AWD model on a 36/15 for about $580 per month. That includes $1000 in shipping getting the car to me knowing I may have to purchase out of state. I bet if I started Monday, I could have a signed deal for one of these by Wednesday at or better than the numbers I just posted. Buy out at the end of the 3 year will be 21-22k.

 

[z1ggy]

I just looked up the lease numbers on the kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5. Kia has better money factor across the board, except for Ioniq 5 SEL trim which has a lower money factor than the other trims. It also seems various dealers are offering additional incentives in some states because inventory on these is starting to pile up. I'm seeing $2-3k additional offers online.

So, money factor is ranging from .0017 to .0021, $7500 lease incentive and dealer additional incentives with a 36/15 residual of 56%. Knowing this, I could lease a $52k AWD EV6 or Ioniq 5 SEL AWD model on a 36/15 for about $580 per month. That includes $1000 in shipping getting the car to me knowing I may have to purchase out of state. I bet if I started Monday, I could have a signed deal for one of these by Wednesday at or better than the numbers I just posted. Buy out at the end of the 3 year will be 21-22k.

Yeah I am noticing some decent deals... I would need to evaluate it but based on how much I would drive, that might not be a bad deal. Plus, I am hoping ol papa Powell lowers rates a bit 3 years from now, but who knows.

Basically I need to evaluate the lease situation and buy out 5 year TCO vs buying a '22 used at a higher rate but for less upfront $$. I'm seeing SEL's for about $34-35k, and Limited for $38-39. I need to go actually see both trims to know if it's worth the upper... The wheels look much cooler on the Limited IMO but I know those can be swapped easily later. I checked out the features on paper and it seems like most of the Limited's features are just cool "nice to haves" nothing that the SEL is missing. It would be tempting though, I would enjoy the upgraded Audio for sure (my Mazda had a $1000 sound system in it, although.... it broke) and the HUD is a cool feature to have, as is ventilated seats in the summer.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Ya, it looks like you should be able to get a used 2023 SEL AWD or EV6 AWD with less than 6-7k miles for $34-36k. I'd personally go for the used model.

 

[Ken g6]

If you decide to get a Prius, apparently you should get better tires. And maybe better wheels.

On The Right Tires A Toyota Prius Is Almost As Fun To Drive As A Volkswagen GTI - Jalopnik

The fifth-generation Toyota Prius is a massive step forward in terms of driving excitement (and visual excitement) over its forebears. Since the nameplate’s launch in 1997, enthusiasts have feared what the green meanies and their compact hybrid fuel sippers would mean for the future of driving...

jalopnik.com

Or just the video the article was written from:

Also, anybody mention a Golf GTI before in this thread? It might not be luxury enough for you, though.

 

[z1ggy]

If you decide to get a Prius, apparently you should get better tires. And maybe better wheels.

On The Right Tires A Toyota Prius Is Almost As Fun To Drive As A Volkswagen GTI - Jalopnik

The fifth-generation Toyota Prius is a massive step forward in terms of driving excitement (and visual excitement) over its forebears. Since the nameplate’s launch in 1997, enthusiasts have feared what the green meanies and their compact hybrid fuel sippers would mean for the future of driving...

jalopnik.com

Or just the video the article was written from:

Also, anybody mention a Golf GTI before in this thread? It might not be luxury enough for you, though.

Don't think the back seat area will be big enough but I did drive a Golf R and it did feel bigger than my mazda3.

 

[manly]

Has anyone ever before cross shopped a Lexus ES and a Golf GTI, using an objective spreadsheet to keep score?