Need another car reco from you guys

[z1ggy]

You've helped before, and I'm calling on you again. I new this would happen - wife and I have/had old cars, combined age over 30 years old, and low and behold, both are/have crapped the bed pretty much simultaneously. Anyway, she's getting the kiddie hauler (Pilot) and I have more wiggle room to get pretty much whatever I want, although it should still be family practical where possible. I was pretty set on an ES350 F Sport but before even driving it... the reviews have me meh. I want something luxury and reliable but... 200hp??? Here in NJ, people with an IQ of <80 have designed many of our roads, so floor stomping is done to merge into fast traffic pretty frequently. Like... merge from a dead stop into 55mph kind of situation.

Here is what I need:

• 4 doors
• Pre owned, model year 2019 or newer, budget stretch to $40k, prefer under $35k
• Reliable, but... what does that mean? My 2011 Mazda has been in the shop maybe 4-5 times in the last decade but has had the CEL on for 6 years. but it drives.... So is that reliable? *shrug*
• Decent MPG. This car wouldn't seen tons of miles and it would be about 50/50 city to highway. Daily commute is about 30miles round trip, but I'm not looking to visit the gas station 4x a month either.
• Room for up to 2 young teen kids in the back

Other notes/comments

• Subjective but I would like some decent styling and sportiness, I would prefer a lux brand (Lexus, Acura, BMW, Audi, etc but I would still be open to high end trims from Kia, etc)
• IMO it doesn't need to be purely gas powered I am totally open to pure EV and hybrids
• AWD a bonus for extra control in the snow going up/down hill (I live on top of a very tall & windy ridge)

 

[Fenixgoon]

Obligatory Prius vote.

Kia Nero hybrid? 50mpg, under 30k.
Kia Telluride is apparently quite a hot buy.

Hyundai Kona might be too small. Comes in both gas and BEV. Tucson/Palisade also available.

Mazda CX50/CX5

Toyota Sienna. Yes minivans are not "cool". But they are stupidly practical and the Sienna gets 36mpg!!! 🤯

I'm probably missing others but those are the first things that came to mind.

 

[z1ggy]

Obligatory Prius vote.

Kia Nero hybrid? 50mpg, under 30k.
Kia Telluride is apparently quite a hot buy.

Hyundai Kona might be too small. Comes in both gas and BEV. Tucson/Palisade also available.

Mazda CX50/CX5

Toyota Sienna. Yes minivans are not "cool". But they are stupidly practical and the Sienna gets 36mpg!!! 🤯

I'm probably missing others but those are the first things that came to mind.

If my wife is getting the big SUV though, I'm not sure why I would look at or consider a mini van/another larger SUV? I mean yes my requirements are kind of loose... But for some reason that seems weird to have two very large cars.

My mind was more thinking like medium to larger sedan or cross over. I've never driven a Prius... Does it have good acceleration? With my Mazda3 I need to go into manual mode and redline in a lower gear to have any hope of acceleration, which is something that would be useful for me in my current situation.

 

[repoman0]

The new Integra S looks great, but I guess is a budget stretch. I’ve thought about selling my E39 and E46 BMWs and getting one myself just to simplify.

Edit: the regular non-S integra is within your budget, perhaps worth a look. I think that one can be optioned with a manual too

 

[bbhaag]

Can you give us a rough idea on what part of the country you are in? A specific State would be really helpful because prices can vary pretty broad by region. A zip code would be really helpful.

If you're not apposed to going full electric take a look at used 2022 Mustang Mach-Es. The Select and Premium trims can be had in your price range with fairly low miles and in AWD. Decent performance with a nice interior and plenty of passenger room/cargo space.

Cars.com results.

https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer_id=&drivetrain_slugs[]=all_wheel_drive&keyword=&list_price_max=&list_price_min=&makes[]=ford&maximum_distance=all&mileage_max=&models[]=ford-mustang_mach_e&monthly_payment=&page_size=20&sort=list_price&stock_type=used&year_max=2022&year_min=2022&zip=61455

Autotrader.com results. Link says unknown but the results still come up.

Autotrader - page unavailable

www.autotrader.com

 

[z1ggy]

The new Integra S looks great, but I guess is a budget stretch. I’ve thought about selling my E39 and E46 BMWs and getting one myself just to simplify.

Edit: the regular non-S integra is within your budget, perhaps worth a look. I think that one can be optioned with a manual too

Curious how your older bimmers held up? I loved driving the 3 series, assume the 5 handles just as nicely but I worry they are money pits. My buddy's had coils fail 2x and he traded for Lexus and hasn't had issues.

 

[z1ggy]

Can you give us a rough idea on what part of the country you are in? A specific State would be really helpful because prices can vary pretty broad by region. A zip code would be really helpful.

If you're not apposed to going full electric take a look as used 2022 Mustang Mach-Es. The Select and Premium trims can be had in your price rang with fairly low miles and in AWD. Decent performance with a nice interior and plenty of passenger room/cargo space.

Cars.com results.

https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?dealer_id=&drivetrain_slugs[]=all_wheel_drive&keyword=&list_price_max=&list_price_min=&makes[]=ford&maximum_distance=all&mileage_max=&models[]=ford-mustang_mach_e&monthly_payment=&page_size=20&sort=list_price&stock_type=used&year_max=2022&year_min=2022&zip=61455

Autotrader.com results.

Autotrader - page unavailable

www.autotrader.com

07840

It's on my radar for sure, along with used model Y but I do worry about panel gap on the Y, and long term reliability for both. MachE does seem much more premium all things considered.

 

[repoman0]

Curious how your older bimmers held up? I loved driving the 3 series, assume the 5 handles just as nicely but I worry they are money pits. My buddy's had coils fail 2x and he traded for Lexus and hasn't had issues.

Really well tbh, but I care for and maintain them obsessively. Close enough to no problems whatsoever in ten years with the E46 and four now with the E39. Parts are indeed getting expensive and sometimes hard to find though.

 

[bbhaag]

07840

It's on my radar for sure, along with used model Y but I do worry about panel gap on the Y, and long term reliability for both. MachE does seem much more premium all things considered.

Thanks for zip code! It looks like Mach-Es are a little bit more spendy in your area and the selection is not as good. So unless you are willing to purchase one site unseen and have it shipped another vehicle might be a better choice.

If you are seriously interested in the MY or the Mach-E I really encourage you to go test drive both. If the Premium trim is in your budget that is the one I would recommend. The California Route 1 is another option is budget allows.

Skip the 2021 models if possible. The job 1 cars have to many issues and are not worth it even if you find one at a great price.

 

[z1ggy]

Thanks for zip code! It looks like Mach-Es are a little bit more spendy in your area and the selection is not as good. So unless you are willing to purchase one site unseen and have it shipped another vehicle might be a better choice.

If you are seriously interested in the MY or the Mach-E I really encourage you to go test drive both. If the Premium trim is in your budget that is the one I would recommend. The California Route 1 is another option is budget allows.

Skip the 2021 models if possible. The job 1 cars have to many issues and are not worth it even if you find one at a great price.

I'd test drive a new one and then pay for or negotiate delivery from out of state if need be for a '22.

Regarding Tesla, I have read too many iffy things on the model Y to likely buy one but there is something about the styling and crazy acceleration that keeps grabbing me.

A used model S is also potentially in price range but the same concerns apply about quality.

 

[z1ggy]

Really well tbh, but I care for and maintain them obsessively. Close enough to no problems whatsoever in ten years with the E46 and four now with the E39. Parts are indeed getting expensive and sometimes hard to find though.

In the event I end up strongly considering a BMW I'll prob DM you.

I'm a very analytical type so once I make this list to like 7-10 best candidates I'll probably come up with some kind of excel file to help me judge them objectively then drive them all. This will probably take several weeks unfortunately haha.

 

[Ken g6]

Obligatory Prius vote.

Serious Prius vote. New Prius! It's only since MY2023 that it's fast.

[The Prius Prime's] 0-60-mph acceleration takes 6.4 seconds, and it crosses the quarter mile in 15.0 seconds at 95.4 mph. The standard 2023 Prius hits 60 mph in 7.2 seconds and the quarter in 15.5 seconds at 91.7 mph. Amusingly, the Prime's also quicker to 60 mph than the automatic-equipped Toyota GR86 sport coupe, which needs 6.6 seconds.

Cars.com shows regular Priuses from $31k and Primes from $37k, but they tend up toward $35k-$41k. Oddly irrespective of Prime or not Prime.

It's hard to find another fast EV or PHEV in your price range, unless it's a used Tesla. Do note the $4000 federal tax credit for used EVs and PHEVs, which will become a dealership point-of-sale rebate in many cases starting next year.

 

[Ken g6]

Come to think of it, speaking of new cars, I should mention two new EVs coming in the next few years starting at $35k:

- The 2025 Volvo EX30, a somewhat odd Chinese car which will do 0-60 in 5.8 seconds for something under $42k.
- The Chevy Equinox EV, about which I know very little beyond its base price of $35k, but it might get significant tax credits to bring even higher trims below your target price.

New Jersey residents can also get small state tax credits on some new EVs.

 

[PumpkinCake]

I'd test drive a new one and then pay for or negotiate delivery from out of state if need be for a '22.

Regarding Tesla, I have read too many iffy things on the model Y to likely buy one but there is something about the styling and crazy acceleration that keeps grabbing me.

A used model S is also potentially in price range but the same concerns apply about quality.

Apparently the brand new ones are better, but when I ordered my plaid I drove a buddy's model Y and it rode like a 20 year old honda CRV. Bouncy as shit and "felt" super, super cheap. While I do consider my S and the X sort of "luxury light", the Y and 3 are not luxury at all imho.

Tesla service is fucking garbage, but I have not had one problem with my S so I don't really care. And all large cities now have independent shops that do everything from small repairs to battery refurbs.

If you live somewhere with an independent tesla service shop I still wouldn't run out and buy a used EV. You're considering a lexus...... Imo EVs should be cross shopped with Audi/Bmw/MB. Basically someone who is willing to put up with a little bit of bullshit now and then with service and other issues.

The ES350 isn't a bad car. You said it has 200hp but I'm pretty positive the 350 has the toyota v6 which has plenty of grunt. Honestly, based on your requirements, that's what I would go with. Although I prefer the GS for the rwd platform.

 

[z1ggy]

Apparently the brand new ones are better, but when I ordered my plaid I drove a buddy's model Y and it rode like a 20 year old honda CRV. Bouncy as shit and "felt" super, super cheap. While I do consider my S and the X sort of "luxury light", the Y and 3 are not luxury at all imho.

Tesla service is fucking garbage, but I have not had one problem with my S so I don't really care. And all large cities now have independent shops that do everything from small repairs to battery refurbs.

If you live somewhere with an independent tesla service shop I still wouldn't run out and buy a used EV. You're considering a lexus...... Imo EVs should be cross shopped with Audi/Bmw/MB. Basically someone who is willing to put up with a little bit of bullshit now and then with service and other issues.

The ES350 isn't a bad car. You said it has 200hp but I'm pretty positive the 350 has the toyota v6 which has plenty of grunt. Honestly, based on your requirements, that's what I would go with. Although I prefer the GS for the rwd platform.

Sorry yeah the 250 is the 4 cylinder with 200hp... You're right.

It's definitely the front runner, I just need to do my due diligence and start driving. Let's be real - much of decision making is emotional and illogical. I'm open to and embrace the idea that the driving experience could outweigh the raw data.

 

[repoman0]

In the event I end up strongly considering a BMW I'll prob DM you.

I'm a very analytical type so once I make this list to like 7-10 best candidates I'll probably come up with some kind of excel file to help me judge them objectively then drive them all. This will probably take several weeks unfortunately haha.

Feel free, but I don’t know a ton about their newer offerings. I know reliability is supposed to be excellent over the past decade or so, post E60/E90 gen. Their newer cars are certainly capable but they lost me with EPS racks and turbos … which to be fair is pretty much every newer car.

 

[z1ggy]

Feel free, but I don’t know a ton about their newer offerings. I know reliability is supposed to be excellent over the past decade or so, post E60/E90 gen. Their newer cars are certainly capable but they lost me with EPS racks and turbos … which to be fair is pretty much every newer car.

Yeah I feel like due to requirements from govt, turbos and smaller engines, even hybrid drivetrains are going to be the norm. It's honestly fine, I'm not a hp queen... As long as the engine is tuned really well and can pull fast when needed, that meets my needs.

 

[sdifox]

Used ioniq5? How much do you drive a day? 11mi "used" lol

Autotrader - page unavailable

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Autotrader - page unavailable

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[dave_the_nerd]

want, although it should still be family practical where possible. I was pretty set on an ES350 F Sport but before even driving it... the reviews have me meh. I want something luxury and reliable but... 200hp???

More like 300. 200 is the combined power rating of the ES300h (hybrid.)

My friend has an ES300h and, while the electric motor adds some nice oomph for pulloing away from stopsigns, it is a bit anemic on the highway. I drive an Acura with a 280hp V6 and it has the opposite problem.

 

[manly]

LOL at thinking you'll need 300hp and launch control to merge onto highways.

If fuel efficiency is a top concern, you're kinda stuck with the Lexus ES or even better, a Model Y. At least you'll know the boring and slow Lexus is very reliable.

If you can live with 30 mpg, then Audi A6 or the 5 Series could work too. Pricing may be an issue, and you already know about maintenance costs.

 

[PumpkinCake]

LOL at thinking you'll need 300hp and launch control to merge onto highways.

If fuel efficiency is a top concern, you're kinda stuck with the Lexus ES or even better, a Model Y. At least you'll know the boring and slow Lexus is very reliable.

If you can live with 30 mpg, then Audi A6 or the 5 Series could work too. Pricing may be an issue, and you already know about maintenance costs.

The way people drive in most large cities, especially post-covid and with the current anti-police mentality, is fucking nuts. My city, the cops don't even really give out speeding tickets. I haven't seen anyone running radar since pre-covid. Everyone drives 15-20mph over on the highway, no exaggeration. And 10mph over on side streets.

While 300hp is a lot, I have an old SUV I keep around for when it's raining/dogs/etc, and legit I sometimes get honked at for not pulling out into traffic when this suv literally doesn't have the power to do it.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

LOL at thinking you'll need 300hp and launch control to merge onto highways.

If fuel efficiency is a top concern, you're kinda stuck with the Lexus ES or even better, a Model Y. At least you'll know the boring and slow Lexus is very reliable.

If you can live with 30 mpg, then Audi A6 or the 5 Series could work too. Pricing may be an issue, and you already know about maintenance costs.

Nobody is actually running anywhere close to peak power output, and not generating nearly that much power, TBF. That's noisy and attracts attention.

You just want a car where you are going 65, and you press the button, and you are now going 80 with a minimum of drama, so you can do what you need to do passing-wise.

I'd also point out that there are a lot of pretty short entrance ramps in my urban neck of the woods, where you are starting from a dead stop and have ~700 feet to get up to a safe merge speed. (And outside of rush hour, that is usually at least 55mph.) So yeah, you floor it.

As for the "city drivers are nuts" argument... we are, but so are rural drivers. Drive a speed-governed UHaul a few hundred miles and get back to me. That was a rough couple days.

 

[z1ggy]

Nobody is actually running anywhere close to peak power output, and not generating nearly that much power, TBF. That's noisy and attracts attention.

You just want a car where you are going 65, and you press the button, and you are now going 80 with a minimum of drama, so you can do what you need to do passing-wise.

I'd also point out that there are a lot of pretty short entrance ramps in my urban neck of the woods, where you are starting from a dead stop and have ~700 feet to get up to a safe merge speed. (And outside of rush hour, that is usually at least 55mph.) So yeah, you floor it.

As for the "city drivers are nuts" argument... we are, but so are rural drivers. Drive a speed-governed UHaul a few hundred miles and get back to me. That was a rough couple days.

This guy gets it.

Idk where I said I needed 300hp and launch control... in fact idk about peak HP at all, I want an efficient application of torque, which my current car does not have.

 

[z1ggy]

So I built the "objective comparison table" that I spoke about above. I equalized for price just to pretend for the time being that no matter what I did... I paid the same for any car on my list. Obviously not going to happen, but I wanted a baseline. I have a copy of the table with all the '23/'24 new pricing, and I will have another copy where I put in actual prices based on what's available near me.

This gives me a tool to at least filter out 1/3 or even 1/2 of the options that I won't even bother pursuing. I won't explain how I made the table, but if anyone wants to know, I will explain it.

With the data I have and the weighting I've assigned to the things that matter to me right now... Pretty hard to argue that a Tesla or MachE shouldn't be a strong contender. Little surprised to see the Stinger up there but I suspect that will change a little bit once real pricing goes in.

One thing I want to try and add in is a reliability score. Something like a Model Y is going to score really well on paper while the Lexus ES is not. But, reliability is going to factor into my decision.. so hopefully I can find a place like Edmunds, etc that ranks all of these cars on some kind of scale.

 

[manly]

You don't have to state how many hp you want; it's implied. Americans love power, and manufacturers keep boosting it. So everyone uses the excuse that you need it to merge onto highways. 40 years ago, people were doing that with under 100hp and extremely slow cars. I won't name names, but a guy in ATOT said he lusts after an BMW X5 M as a family hauler.

And LOL at saying the Model Y scores well in reliability, while the Lexus ES does not. 🤷‍♂️

Btw I'm not trying to be snarky. Good luck with the search! I implied MY 2019 or 2020 vehicles to hit your price target; good to see you have the Stinger on the list. I think the G70 is probably too small for a family sedan, and the G80 is an old car up until MY2021. The Lexus IS is tiny in the rear; it's also a no-go.

No Honda Accord hybrid?