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need advice on parts for a super-stable business computer

Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
I'm going to be starting up a small business and I need to build a computer for order-taking, records, etc. It needs to be pretty stable. Here are my thoughts so far:

-2 x 200gb Seagate HDDs in RAID
-DVD burner for data backup
-at least 512mb ram
-Windows 2000

It will probably be on 24/7, so I need a good, stable motherboard. I don't really care what CPU it takes, Intel or AMD, as long as it's at least 2ghz. Stability is the key here. What do you guys recommend for parts, especially a super-stable motherboard?
 
maybe $1000, I dunno. I'm also buying a laptop and projector, so I'm trying to balance everything out so I don't blow my savings out. I'm going to be doing a lot of PowerPoint presentations on the road this coming year.

Also, what would be a good video card? It needs to have DVI-out for an LCD.
 
I would go with an AMD Athlon or Athlon 64. They are pretty reliable and a great deal. I don't know much about stable mobos, so someone else will help you with that. RAID 1 is definately a plus if you need data security. You are probably going to want a pretty good case and PSU if it is going to be on 24/7 so it doesn't overheat or anything. What is your budget?


Edit: Just saw your post... I would definately go with an Athlon 2500+ or so. They are pretty reliable, good performers, and extremely cheap. If you aren't doing any gaming or hardcore 3D, a AIW Radeon 9600 may be a good choice. It is stable, a decent performer, and cheap. You may want to also get a large (500 GB or so) external hardrive in edition to the RAID 1. You can back all your data to that for an extra layer of security, and it would be easy to transport between PCs.
 
I'm looking at the Antec Sonata case. Nice, quiet, and good airflow. I'll probably stick two 120mm Acoustifans in there too.
 
Originally posted by: SrGuapo
I would go with an AMD Athlon or Athlon 64. They are pretty reliable and a great deal. I don't know much about stable mobos, so someone else will help you with that. RAID 1 is definately a plus if you need data security. You are probably going to want a pretty good case and PSU if it is going to be on 24/7 so it doesn't overheat or anything. What is your budget?


Edit: Just saw your post... I would definately go with an Athlon 2500+ or so. They are pretty reliable, good performers, and extremely cheap. If you aren't doing any gaming or hardcore 3D, a AIW Radeon 9600 may be a good choice. It is stable, a decent performer, and cheap. You may want to also get a large (500 GB or so) external hardrive in edition to the RAID 1. You can back all your data to that for an extra layer of security, and it would be easy to transport between PCs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, data security is going to be very important. I'm considering RAID, as well as a DVD burner or external hard drive for backup. I think the DVD burner solution is a good idea because burned discs are pretty reliable for awhile.

I don't need any fancy features like an AIW offers as far as video cards go. I really liked the stability of my old GeForce4 MX440 - if I can find a similarly stable card that offers DVI-output, I'll probably get that.
 
The 9600XT could be had from 70-100$ a while back. Not too bad a deal, either; these things are still good performers.
You may also want to look at a Sempron 3100+ and Chaintech VNF3-250, with a stick of Corsair Value Select (512mb). This is a reputedly nice budget combination (at 240$ for all three parts), and a stable one at that. Plus, it supports RAID 1, which is a better idea than RAID 0 for archiving (unless you back up a lot).
EDIT:
Although Tyan is all very nice, ou have to remember that a 2GHZ P4 is 20$ more than a Sempron at the same clock speed. If you want to go the Intel route, go with a Celeron-D; they perform about as well as the old 400mhz FSB P4's and are a heck of a lot cheaper.
 
You've got a good plan.
I have been using Tyan boards for years and still have customers running Pentium 200mmx's. They primarily are targeted at the server level. Tyan is very stable. A good one is their model s5101 which is 875 chip with all the features you'll need. Around 150.00. You can get this board in raid and it has both ide and sata onboard. Check out their website. I use these personally as well.
A 2gig P4 would be more than adequate and still stay cool. Shop for price here.
Try to use all quality parts.
Plextor for dvd. Their Plextools software is invaluable.
I use WD hdrives but seagate has better warantees. 2 120gigs would be more than enough but shop price here again.
Ati has various cards with dvi output. You don't need a screamer. I use NEC lcd with analog input. Has a hard screen which saves the moniter in certain environments.
Don't forget a good ps and good case with good surge protection.
In business a day of down time can easily cost you the price of a complete system.
 
Man...I had a Compaq PWS 5000 with a Pentium Pro 200mhz...most stable computer I have ever owned. I loved that thing.

Plextor for DVD? I have a Pioneer 108 that I've been enjoying, along with Nero 6. Any specific reason to change? What does the Plextools software do?

I'll definately have a surge protector on there. I got a 1100va Belkin with that 50% coupon and it's been working out great for my desktop.
 
i would go with an Opteron 1xx series CPU, as they use ECC RAM for that extra bit of stability. they are somewhat expensive (retail is $178 at newegg), but are VERY stable processors. although they only operate at 1.4GHz, they are dual channel K8, and given that the 2.4 is rated at 4000+, this would be rated at well over 2000+.
 
Yeah, the Windoze is a problem here 🙂

You want ECC RAM. You don't want funky new onboard stuff. The Intel mainboard in my signature has all hardware in chips that are still high-performance but they have the best driver support, for any OS. Plus it supports ECC RAM.

The seagate harddrives sound good to me.

Get a nice big roomy case and a few extra fans. That is actually the most important factor. The smaller the stuff the faster it dies.

Get the best power supply you can.
 
Originally posted by: Sc4freak
Whoever uses the words "stable" and "Windows" in the same sentence should be shot.
Click to expand...


Obviously you are running somethng cerca ME, though this doesn't really have anything to do with the topic... Neither the OP or anyone else mentioned windows... ever...

Anyway, Just make sure to read lots of reviews on whatever you plan to buy and especially watch the complaints that people had. If two things are rated 4/5 stars, but all the bad ratings for one mention flaming HDDs, it is probably one to avoid. I assume you are not overclocking, so this shouldn't be an issue for a mobo anyway. Good luck with your business!
 
Oh, and DO NOT do SATA pseudo-hardware RAID-1 that is actually implemented int he driver and hence delayed software RAID. We had some real horror stories about that here. The BIOS will mispresent the array when one drive fails and the OS will wax the data before the drive with the RAID stuff is up.

I don't know about Windoze, but under Linux true software RAID is an option if you know what you are doing.

If not it's best to get a hardware RAID controller which is actually doing all the RAID in the controller.
 
Don't put a second fan in. The intake fan is actually situated behind the drive cage and doesn't help cooling at all. The exhaust is enough.
 
You can still get the Tyan S2495ANRS. It is the only Socket-A mobo I know of that supports ECC and/or Registered memory. Thus it is the only mobo I could recommend for a single-CPU socket A solution. I'm not sure if it is still in production, but there are still some in the channel.
 
You can still get the Tyan S2495AN/ANRS. They are the only Socket-A mobos I know of that support ECC and/or Registered memory. Thus they are the only mobos I could recommend for a single-CPU socket A mission-critical solution. I'm not sure if they are still in production, but there are still some in the channel.
. All Via chipsets since the KT266 support ECC, but none of the mfrs. pass the feature thru to the user - only Tyan. Too bad there has been three new Via KT chipset generations (counting the 400a) since the KT400 on the last Trinities and Tyan has not seen fit to update the series.
. I would recommend SCSI for your hard drive solution. The cost of hardware has come down drastically with careful shopping, while software RAID solutions (if needed) are commonly available. Furthermore the reliability is still much higher than on the IDE side.
.bh.

p.s. And, yes, the OP did mention Windows - stating he intends to use Win 2k...bh.

 
Originally posted by: Sc4freak
Whoever uses the words "stable" and "Windows" in the same sentence should be shot.
Click to expand...
I have a fleet of about 80 Windows2000 systems to care for, and they're as stable as heck 🙂 In the last year, the only BSODs I can recall were due to outright hard-drive failures. I pressed one into service to host a LaserJet whose JetDirect card had failed, and I don't know what the uptime would've been if we hadn't had to move to a new office building, but it was in the area of 4 months or so. And I could write a few paragraphs about the beatings my Windows systems have endured in a combo server/workstation role, but I won't bore ya 😉 Welcome to the '00s 🙂

For a stable business system, if you want something pretty powerful, maybe an A64 2800+ on an Asus K8N-E Deluxe with Crucial PC3200 and a high-quality power supply (which I see you've already got lined up with the Sonata).
 
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Originally posted by: Sc4freak
Whoever uses the words "stable" and "Windows" in the same sentence should be shot.
Click to expand...
I have a fleet of about 80 Windows2000 systems to care for, and they're as stable as heck 🙂 In the last year, the only BSODs I can recall were due to outright hard-drive failures. I pressed one into service to host a LaserJet whose JetDirect card had failed, and I don't know what the uptime would've been if we hadn't had to move to a new office building, but it was in the area of 4 months or so. And I could write a few paragraphs about the beatings my Windows systems have endured in a combo server/workstation role, but I won't bore ya 😉 Welcome to the '00s 🙂

For a stable business system, if you want something pretty powerful, maybe an A64 2800+ on an Asus K8N-E Deluxe with Crucial PC3200 and a high-quality power supply (which I see you've already got lined up with the Sonata).
Click to expand...

Sc4freak - imho Windows 2000 is the most stable Windows operating system. I've had less issues with it than Windows XP. It's been as stable as some of my Linux boxes in some cases. Properly set up, it works great. Since a lot of of the business software I'll be using is written for Windows, I don't have much of a choice anyway.

mechBgon - yeah, the Athlon 64 sounds pretty good. I'm already a BIG fan of Crucial - they've earned my business for a lifetime.

I don't have a specific budget, but it will mostly be a records/database/order processing machine, so it doesn't need to be a sick dual-Opteron 4gb system, but it does need to be fast and stable.

Here's my list so far:

-Dell 2001FP 20.1" LCD
-standard black Dell keyboard (I love those things)
-blue Logitech MX510
-(2) 200gb SATA Seagate hard drives in RAID 1 (mirroring)
-(2) 512mb Crucial DDR400
-Athlon 64 CPU
-Antec Sonata with 380w PSU
-(2) 120mm Acousticase fans
-black Pioneer 108 DVD burner
-black Samsung DVD-ROM/CD-RW (both for backup in case the DVDr fails and for making backup-data CD copies)
-black floppy

I have never delved into RAID before. What do I need to know about setting it up and recovering data if one of the hard drives bites the dust? Is onboard RAID 1 fine on motherboards? Does it matter if the drives are ATA or SATA?

Which Athlon 64 CPU should I get? I want at least 2ghz with a 1mb l2 cache. I haven't been following them lately, and I know there's a new socket out (939 iirc). Oh, and it needs to take non-ecc ddr - do any of the regular Athlon 64's even use that? I just want one that will work with the Crucial. Dang, I've been out of the loop for awhile CPU-wise 🙂

Also, what's a good, quiet heatsink/fan for the Athlon 64?
 
I'm also considering the NEC 3500a DVD burner. Any thoughts on whether I should get it or the Pioneer?

I will be using Taiyo Yuden CDr and DVDr discs with Nero 6, btw.
 
Plextor for DVD? I have a Pioneer 108 that I've been enjoying, along with Nero 6. Any specific reason to change? What does the Plextools software do?
Click to expand...

If you get a chance to checkout the plextools software , you will see that it does everything needed for dvd/cd. It only works with Plextor drives, which of course have a good history. Plextools is not bloated, and when you exit it no remnants left in memory>no conflicts. Consider this included full version software when shopping prices for drives.
 
Originally posted by: Kaido
I have never delved into RAID before. What do I need to know about setting it up and recovering data if one of the hard drives bites the dust? Is onboard RAID 1 fine on motherboards? Does it matter if the drives are ATA or SATA?
Learn what it does, then read the horror stories of the onboard stuff which is doing RAID only in the driver (and hence does not RAID in the phases before the OS is up).

Which Athlon 64 CPU should I get? I want at least 2ghz with a 1mb l2 cache. I haven't been following them lately, and I know there's a new socket out (939 iirc). Oh, and it needs to take non-ecc ddr - do any of the regular Athlon 64's even use that? I just want one that will work with the Crucial. Dang, I've been out of the loop for awhile CPU-wise 🙂

Also, what's a good, quiet heatsink/fan for the Athlon 64?
Click to expand...

Why do you insist on non-ECC RAM? That's one of the most critical things.

The fan shipped with my 3400+ socket 754 was just fine (much better than the Athlon XP one).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I agree with the recommendation of Plextor DVD burners. Either get the PX-712A (if you can live with single layer) or wait for the first revision of the PX-716A (if you must have dual-layer). The first batch of the 716 are buggy. There is a $30. rebate on selected models thru the end of December which actually makes the final price very reasonable. I just bought a 712 and am very happy with it (and still using a Plextor 4220 SCSI burner for 4 or 5 years which is still going strong).

As in my first message, do not build or buy a mission-critical system without true ECC memory support - this feature becomes even more critical if you add software RAID to the mix. Crucial sells ECC memory and so does Corsair, so what's the problem? I think at least some of the AMD 64-bit mobos support ECC (but I also think they are gross overkill for a business system) or the Tyan for socket-A I already mentioned, or many of the Intel chipsets for Celeron/P4.

.bh.
 
So ECC is definately worth the investment? IIRC, some Athlon 64 systems used it...hmm, I'll have to look into that.

 
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