Need advice! I was "accused" of theft at work today

[chunder]

Mods, please lock this username when this thread is done. I really need some input, but because of the situation, I have to tread lightly. There are enough coworkers who browse the forums that I can't use my regular username.

Background info:

The company I work for aquired another company about a year and a half ago, and moved them into our main building about nine months ago. Because the company we aquired does not focus on the same products as the rest of the organization and because the two groups are somewhat seperated in the office, there is very little interaction and most of us are unfamiliar with each other. I work in a department of the "original" company in a low level management position with eleven direct reports.

Today, I was called into a meeting with my manager and our department head. As I was told, over the past month employees of the other group have been reporting things missing from their desks and offices (bottles of wine from the Christmas party, a total of about $50 or so, a wallet, and a few other personal belongings). Apparently, one of the managers (from the other group) claims to have seen one of my direct reports and I "snooping around" desks in their area sometime last week.

I asked who the person who was with me was, but was told that the company did not know. I asked when it was that I was supposedly "snooping around", and was told only that it was sometime last week around 6:30 pm (I normally leave work at 6:00 pm, but unfortunately I worked late every day last week). I of course said that I knew nothing about the theft, and to be honest, I can't even think of a reason I would be in that part of the office. I walk down the main aisle a few times a day on my way to the break room and the restrooms, but I've actually walked between cubicles there only about 3 or 4 times over the last nine months.

The meeting was not a formal accusation, but the manner in which it was conducted (both were obviously uncomfortable, and spoke to and treated me very differently than I am used to) leads me to think that I wasn't being told everything. I'm somewhat hopeful that my manager and department head believe me, but at this point I'm really not sure.

I'm not too worried about losing my job right now, since there is absolutely nothing conclusive that can link me to the thefts (obviously, since I'm not the one responsible for them), and the company would be looking down the bad end of a wrongful termination suit if they fired me. I also have no performance issues (I've been promoted twice in the year and a half I've been with the company, and I'm constantly rated very highly on performance reviews) that could lead me to believe the "accusation" is BS in order to give the company an excuse to terminate me.

What I'm most concerned with right now is finding out why I am under suspicion (as opposed to any of the 30 workers in the office until midnight every night, or the 3 to 5 who work the night shift unsupervised), finding out what exactly I am "suspected" of, and completely clearing myself of any involvement. The company can't possibly prove that I've done anything wrong, but I'm very concerned that this will hurt any chances I had of advancing in the future (I've seen it myself before at other jobs).

If anyone has been through something similar before, or has any advice to offer on how to handle this, it would be greatly appreciated. If you need more information, ask, and I'll answer the best I can.

Specifically, I need to know:

Do I have the right to speak with the person who "saw" me snooping around? I think it might be helpful if the employee who was supposedly with me is identified (if he hasn't been already...)

Can the company document any of this if no "official" accusation has been made? Do I have a right to check my HR file to verify that nothing has been documented?

How can I make sure that the impact from all of this on my future advancement opportunities is minimal?

What rights do I have if I am officially accused? Should I hire a lawyer if it comes to that? We have no formal employee greivance process.

I am setting up a meeting with HR tomorrow. If I am told that I was questioned simply because someone saw me in the area where the thefts have occured, and that nothing further will come from it, I plan to ask for written documentation supporting that. Is the company obligated to provide me with it?

If the company believes that I am guilty and chooses to terminate me, what "evidence" is required?

If this issue comes back to hurt me in the future (if I lose advancement opportunities, or if I am the prime suspect if other issues occur, etc.), what options do I have?

What questions should I ask when I meet with HR? Are there any specifics that I need to make sure are addressed? I was so completely shocked during the meeting today that I didn't think to ask any important questions, other than the two I already mentioned.

Can the company legally withhold any information from me right now? If so, what?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I've never had anything like this happen before, so any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[StageLeft]

Hmm, dunno what to say about this, so I'm bumping. Goodluck!

 

[Kntx]

I used to work at a car dealership as a lot attendant and they thought I stole a olds intrigue... turned out they sold it about a week earlier and the records got screwed up.

Anyways, I don't really have any advice. I just got reminded of this by your post and felt like sharing.

 

[Adul]

Seek legal advice from an outside lawyer then..

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

BASTARD GIVE ME BACK MY WALLET!!!!!!!

good luck man. If they accuse you of doing it with out any physical proof, take them to court for slander or defimation of character.

 

[sciencetoy]

This is where you start calling in your favors. Start talking to every single person you know above you on the food chain until you figure out what is going on. This is serious, and worth using up all of your brownie points for. Legally you may have some rights, but politically you don't.

How are your 11 reports? Check with them and see if they have any issues you don't know about.

Who's the office gossip queen? Time to have a heart-to-heart chat.

Good luck. You'll need it.

 

[classy]

I wouldn't worry too much. It sounds like they are just checking any and all possible question marks. I doubt, if your record is as good as you say it is, they are looking to get rid of you. Sounds like they like you. But I would just for precaution begin to keep notes though. Sometimes even in accusations, even if not true, people get unjust lables. Just watch yourself. Good luck

 

[Thegonagle]

Good luck.

My only advice is to make sure you keep the lines of communication open with everyone in the office and HR. Keep asking questions, but nicely and diplomatically.

Take care.

 

[Tsaico]

<< Do I have the right to speak with the person who "saw" me snooping around? I think it might be helpful if the employee who was supposedly with me is identified (if he hasn't been already...) >>



Personal courtesy and maturity would want you to speak to this person, but in case the are incorrect, or even if they are someone who works uder you, then it might cause some friction in the work place. Best for everyone thatyou do not know who it was that "saw" you.



<< Can the company document any of this if no "official" accusation has been made? Do I have a right to check my HR file to verify that nothing has been documented? >>



Yes they can document it, even if there were no formal charges are made, though these kinds of things really matter if they are made over and over agin from different people. So while this one won't do much as far as record, if they notice that ALOT of different people start saying they "saw" you stealing/snooping/whatever, then they have a reason to do something about it.



<< How can I make sure that the impact from all of this on my future advancement opportunities is minimal? >>



By law, companies are not allowed to give reason to why they let you go, so if you ARE stealing you got cought and fired, they can only say that becasue of internal issues, you were let go, not "We caught the ah heck stealing!". Not to mention, future employers must ask if it is all right to contact previous employers. So if you are cought stealing/cheating/whatever, assuming no criminal charges were presed, then it is up to you how much you want to tell prospective employers why you were fired.



<< What rights do I have if I am officially accused? Should I hire a lawyer if it comes to that? We have no formal employee greivance process. >>



If there are criminal charges, all the rights allowed to anyone accused of a crime. If they are internal charges and nothing public, then you might have a civil suit to press. And if they just tell you, "We think you are a theif, get your stuff." Then yes, I would hire a lawyer to at least review your case.



<< I am setting up a meeting with HR tomorrow. If I am told that I was questioned simply because someone saw me in the area where the thefts have occured, and that nothing further will come from it, I plan to ask for written documentation supporting that. Is the company obligated to provide me with it? >>



As I remember, you are allowed to review your OWN file, but not sure if that was just where I wrked or if it was a legal obligation. And I doubt they would go as far as firing you over one small incident... They could also just be trying to scare you, in case you are the theif. Make you think they were on to you and either quit stealing or quit altogether. Either way, the problem is solved for them.



<< If the company believes that I am guilty and chooses to terminate me, what "evidence" is required? >>



Becasue of discrimination laws, they will need to provide proof that you were the one who "removed items" without permission. (If they are the companies, that is embezzlement, and yes, office supplies count) and if they are personal, then they must have a formal complaint from the offended party. They cannot just fire you because Joe in accounting saw you take something. They need some sort of video or mutiple eyewitness accounts.



<< If this issue comes back to hurt me in the future (if I lose advancement opportunities, or if I am the prime suspect if other issues occur, etc.), what options do I have? >>



Well, keep your nose clean on this one. Not much you can do for things that you are not responsible for, but really, only people in shady situations or who hang out with people in shady situations often have anythign to worry about. Like I said before, only if you have a lot of complaints about you will this even matter. Every office has the one person that theother one hates, sometimes as far as to lie about it. Most HR people know this and probably won't react to fast in fear of getting sued.



<< What questions should I ask when I meet with HR? Are there any specifics that I need to make sure are addressed? I was so completely shocked during the meeting today that I didn't think to ask any important questions, other than the two I already mentioned. >>



I would ask if you could find out who was it that was pointing fingers. I doubt they would tell you, but it is worth a try, it might be a misunderstanfind where a good meaning person got you confused with someone else, or misinterpretted what they saw entirely. I would also ask if there would be anythin else you can do to help them prove your innocence. And above all, be nice! People are more prone to help out or beleive nice people then they are angry people.



<< Can the company legally withhold any information from me right now? If so, what? >>



They can withhold the name of the accuser. I forget what law was o the books, but this is supposed to help people from being afraid of rporting internal thefts and the like. I also beleive they can hide any current internal searches going on, (i mean back ground searches or an investigation, not searches like of your car while you are in the office) And I also beleieve they hide who is in charge of the investigation.

Good luck these kinds of situations suck ass. speially when you really didn't do anything. But if you are keeping your nose clean and doing your job, the big mean corprate company isn't gonna come after. Costs too much money...

 

[Russ]

<< Do I have the right to speak with the person who "saw" me snooping around? I think it might be helpful if the employee who was supposedly with me is identified (if he hasn't been already...) >>



The right to confront ones accuser is only applicable in criminal proceedings, so the answer would be no.



<< Can the company document any of this if no "official" accusation has been made? >>



Yes, they certainly can, and probably will. They can drop a note in your file about the meeting you just had, the reason for it, your responses, etc.



<< Do I have a right to check my HR file to verify that nothing has been documented? >>



In most states, the answer is yes. The employee has a right to access their personnel file.



<< How can I make sure that the impact from all of this on my future advancement opportunities is minimal? >>



If this is a setup, then the issue is moot. There will be no future advancement opportunities. If it's simply a routine investigation, then it won't be an issue anyway.



<< What rights do I have if I am officially accused? Should I hire a lawyer if it comes to that? We have no formal employee greivance process. >>



It depends on the nature of the accusation and their proposed consequences. If their intent is to simply sever your employment, then - in the absence of an employment agreement to the contrary - you probably have no rights. If the proposed consequences are prosecution, then obviously you have all the rights afforded anyone in a criminal proceeding.



<< I am setting up a meeting with HR tomorrow. If I am told that I was questioned simply because someone saw me in the area where the thefts have occured, and that nothing further will come from it, I plan to ask for written documentation supporting that. Is the company obligated to provide me with it? >>



Unless the written documentation is directly related to you, no, they are under no obligation to provide it.



<< If the company believes that I am guilty and chooses to terminate me, what "evidence" is required? >>



If you are white, male, under 40, with no employment agreement, they don't need squat.



<< If this issue comes back to hurt me in the future (if I lose advancement opportunities, or if I am the prime suspect if other issues occur, etc.), what options do I have? >>



Unless they have conclusive evidence that you committed the offense, then they would be wide open for a lawsuit because you would then have a case of libel or slander.



<< What questions should I ask when I meet with HR? Are there any specifics that I need to make sure are addressed? >>



If, and only if, the meeting indicates that you may indeed be accused, I would demand a polygraph. It is not admissable, of course, but this would send a message to HR that a) You're innocent, and b) They're screwing with the wrong person - somebody who is willing to stand up to them.



<< Can the company legally withhold any information from me right now? If so, what? >>



As long as you are not officially accused, they can withhold everything.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

<< By law, companies are not allowed to give reason to why they let you go >>



That's a common misconception. There is no law on the books anywhere that says a company is precluded from providing factual imformation about a previous employee. If somebody worked for me and I fired them because they were convicted of a crime, it is perfectly permissible to state that fact when asked about their employment.



<< Becasue of discrimination laws, they will need to provide proof that you were the one who "removed items" without permission. >>



Discrimination laws are not applicable unless he/she is in a protected class.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Transition]

Hrm..

The first thing i would think about is, "does anybody have it out for me?" .. Meaning, have you directly or indirectly created an "enemy" that might be out to tarnish your reputation, or get you canned?

I'd also be in question of why in specific have you been questioned? And are their other potential suspects besides yourself? Saying that you were "in the area around the time" of the thefts is a pretty weak accusation. Express your sincere concern with the situation and some possible solutions to catching the real thief.

Tell them sincerely that this has now become a very serious situation in your eyes, seeing how you are now considered a suspect. If possible, request camera or other possible monitoring devices - it's your job on the line here. Be sincere and passionate about this.

I'd also push for the persons name who reported you. A good talk with them about why they may have considered you a thief may be enlightening. If not, your boss(es) definitely need to do a little more investigating with the "tipper" and start to substantiate his/her concern with you.

Definitely make it known to your boss that you understand the severity of the situation - and your going to take immediate action to resolve it. Confirm no formal reports or notes have been made to HR and that your record stays clean.

Focus on the situation on hand, then make sure you briefly address your concerns with HR.

Good Luck - contact me on AIM if you would like to chat about this..

AIM: alter deus

 

[alrocky]

The "accuser" doesn't know which day last week this occured? That's weak. Pin down that day and determine if any of your 11 D.R. was also working around 6:30. If none were, then it couldn't have been you - ask for an apology. Could the "accuser" have mistaken you for someone else form the original company? Seeing as you all don't seem to interact or know each other very well; how he don't know who the D.R. was; or what day of the week last week; how positive can this "accuser" be it was you? Were you "seen" lifting anything at the time? Do you have an alibi for the other thefts? If so then you are not the guilty party or there are more than one thiefs.

You may consider asking your manager and or dept head if you are the only suspect. A yes is not good. (In any event make sure you get a face to face with your manager and dept head after they catch the guy.) There seems to be a number of people who had the opportunity. Ask if this one occurance is the only reason you were called in the office today. Does your company or the other one have a history of thefts? Do you drink wine? Ask how the "accuser" knew it was you and not someone else.

Of course you gave way too much information here to remain anonymous.

 

[EXman]

<< << If the company believes that I am guilty and chooses to terminate me, what "evidence" is required? >>



a company can fire you w/o giving a reason. seen it happen.

if they refuse to tell you the accuser and fire you you'll clean their clock at court.

if they fire you for "Cause" they can also contest your unemployment which if you get fired will really screw you! A friend of mine is having this done to him now it sucks!

All I can say is start looking for a job after something like this your job will NEVER be the same. I'd move out to something better if you can find something. easier said than done.

Finally ask your family and friends about a good lawyer that specializes in your type of case a real ball buster! make them settle!

 

[chunder]

Thanks for the help, guys. I'll post more when I get home from work today.

 

[Modeps]

not sure about many of the questions you posed, but I know for a fact that the company is legally obligated to give you your HR file if you ask for it.. I did that after my last job to make sure I wasnt marked as being bad.

 

[Nitemare]

Hopefully they are just doing blanket accusations in an attempt to weed out the perp..either a direst confession, an attempt to cover-up something, or something like that.

If you were on the puter or something..see if you can dig up log files of network access...even cookies or netscape cache, IE temporary internet files..(hope you weren't looking at naughty sites :Q ) Give them a reason to think it was someone else

 

[franksta]

<< I'll post more when I get home from work today. >>




ROFLMAO.

 

[Tsaico]

No they are not allowed to say why they let you go.... If you were not convicted of a crime.... if you were late every day and the fired you, they couldn't tell the next employer that. But if you were in a criminal case, then yes, they can, but only in a criminal case.

And you got me on the discrimination law......
Ed

 

[Russ]

<< .... if you were late every day and the fired you, they couldn't tell the next employer that. >>



AGAIN, there is no law that says an employer cannot tell another prospective employer why the employee was fired. None, nada, zip. Most employers simply have a voluntary company policy against it because they are worried about lawsuits.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Azraele]

Ouch. Best of luck to you. Perhaps you should see if you can figure out who's really behind the thefts.

 

[Frenchie]

Your rights in regard to this matter depend on what state you live in and whether or not you have a written employment contract. As for general legal advice, what Russ said is accurate. And yes, I am an attorney, and yes I have handled employment law cases.

 

[Michael]

I'm going to echo what Russ is saying. Companies don't say much about you when they're called to reduce the ruisk of being sued. There is no legal requirement that says they can't. There actually have been lawsuits the other way, when a company didn't diclose something that should have been disclosed and then the employee went over the edge at the new company.

I get called for references every once and a while from a direct report that I thought did a poor job for me (they're usually too dumb to call me first so I can tell them not to use me as a reference). I just confirm that they worked for me and their title or just refer them to HR. That's a huge negative as references should give glowing accounts.

Michael

 

[WageSlave]

Hmm.. you should find out who the accuser is and have a 'talk' with him about slandering you. I would consult a lawyer, and possibly sue the accuser... sue everyone, who knows you might make some $

 

[Bleep]

I see that a person on here says he is a Atty. There is a federal law that requires a company to allow you to personally review any and all written documents related to your employment. I worked for a very large corp. some time back and they were required to gather all documents and make them available in a place where the person was employeed for his review. I would do just that! NEVER take a polygraph. I would also start looking for another job.
Bleep
edit-----this request for the documents must be made in writing.