Need a HTPC/*server* Pics!

[boomhower]

My family is moving and I am tired of crazy cable bills and $40 a month for DVR's. So I am going the HTPC route with just basic cable.(when ESPN has a web availability I'll cut cable completely) The usage is going to be for watching video. Sources will be netflix, Hulu+, and downloaded video. DVD/BR will be done on the PS3. I say server but in only the lightest sense. Downloaded video will be streamed to WD media boxes scattered around the house. This box will server no storage/raid/back-up duties. It's strictly a watch it and delete scenario.(1TB should be sufficient with 2TB more than enough.) That's about it. It's really a pretty basic set-up I guess. I want to watch 1080P video on my big screen(HDMI), stream video around the house, and download via sabnzb. If it ends up being faster than my notebook it may do some encoding for iTunes but that is not a requirement and would be a bonus side-effect if it happens. It does have to be cool and quiet. I really don't want to conceal it in a cabinet for heat reasons so it needs to look decent, but cabinet space is available if we need to go that route. Power efficient is also highly desirable. One more time, cool and quiet!

I am looking at having a second drive for the OS to not have to worry about moving media around if the OS craps out. Thinking Seagate hybrid drive there.

LEASE when you POST threads asking for input on system builds tell us...

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
see above
2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
As cheap as possible but will spend what it takes to get it done right. <$1k just to put a number.
3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA
4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
I tend to favor Intel but if AMD has a solution that works and saves money I'll go that route. For the same money I will go Intel.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
all new
6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
yeah, I've browsed a bit. Looks like the Intel Core i3-2120T would be ideal and a Seagate XT for the OS and a WD green for the data. My biggest hangups are a case and cooling solution. And then what OS to use.
7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
Don't see the point.
8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.
No gaming.
9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Between now and April. Probably won't move until then but I want it built and completely sorted before we start relying on it so it'll need a month or two of use before then. Just to put something specific lets say building in Jan or Feb.
10. Don't ask for a build configuration critique or rating if you are thin skinned.
Not a problem.

I've also considered just getting a mac mini and calling it a day but the thoughtt of possibly sticking in a tuner card down the road(definitely not right now) shy's me away from that a bit. It's not out of the question though as I am going to all Apple slowly but surely.

I've been out of the hardware game for a long time. I've just been using notebooks for the last several years so I haven't kept up hardly at all with whats going on in the desktop hardware world. I have the ability, just not the knowledge on current hardware and in particular HTPC style cases and cooling.

Thanks for the help fellas!

 

[Zap]

If you are using Windows 7, then may as well get a small SSD. 60GB would suffice.

Silverstone Milo ML03B case $60
dual core socket 1155 CPU of choice $50-150
use stock cooler and enable a silent fan profile $free
Z68 chipset mATX motherboard with HDMI output $90-170
4GB DDR3 dual channel RAM of choice as long as it is the cheapest $20
60GB/64GB SATA 6Gbps SSD $80-120 (Crucial M4 64GB is $100 and a good choice)
2TB 5400RPM Hitachi HDD $150
cheap DVD writer $20 (or borrow one from another system temporarily for Windows install)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit $100
=$550-790

 

[mfenn]

Zap's suggestions are good. Also, do you know about ESPN3.com? It has pretty much all games that aren't subject to local blackout rules (those would be on your OTA stations anyway). Your ISP has to be an ESPN partner for it to work, but most big national-level ISPs are.

 

[boomhower]

Zap's suggestions are good. Also, do you know about ESPN3.com? It has pretty much all games that aren't subject to local blackout rules (those would be on your OTA stations anyway). Your ISP has to be an ESPN partner for it to work, but most big national-level ISPs are.

Yeah, but the one big thing it doesn't have is nascar. I know I'll catch flack for it around here but I am a big nascar fan and half the season is on espn. Turner Broadcasting has the internet rights to the sport so no on can stream anything audio or video except for them. The other is football. Does espn3.com do NFL?

After looking around here is what I came up with and it was very similar to Zap's suggestions:

Silverstone GD06
Silverstone ST45F
Silverstone NT01-E
Intel G530
Asus mobo
Windows 7
DVD Burner
G.Skill Memory 4GB

I am running out of room on the hard drive on my notebook so I ordered a hybrid drive for it and can it for this build. It's a 60GB SSD, either a Vertex or Vertex 2. I've also got a couple data drives from a defunct WHS. A 1TB WD green and a 2TB WD green. Completely forgot I had those.

The older Silverstone case looks good but the 80mm fans scare me away for noise. I think the newer one with 120mm will be much quieter, of course at teh expense of cost. It also has USB 3 ports as well.

I don't know much about motherboards so if there is a better one I'm all ears. What I need is HDMI, optical audio, and USB 3. E-SATA would be nice but with USB 3 not really needed anymore.

Comes to $564 unless I am missing something and may be able to save on the mobo is you guys have any suggestions there.

 

[Ken g6]

Given you like USB 3, you might want it to work on the front-panel ports of your case. This ASRock board ($113 with shipping) is the only H67 uATX board I could find with USB 3.0 headers for the front-panel ports. Its only downside is that it only has 5 internal SATA ports; but I doubt you could fit 5 drives in that case. (The ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z also works, but raises your budget.)

 

[Zap]

For motherboard how about Asus P8Z68-M Pro for $10 more? It has eSATA 6Gbps plus is the higher end Z68 chipset. About the only thing it is missing would be USB 3.0 headers. That feature is kind of rare in micro ATX boards for some reason, although the ASRock board that Ken g6 linked to would hit all those feature points for cheap using H67 chipset. BTW the difference between H67 and Z68 are that the Z68 supports overclocking, SSD caching and Virtu. If you don't need those (and you probably won't) then maybe just save a few bucks with the ASRock board.

The Silverstone GD04/GD05/GD06 cases are the same internally, only with a different face and no USB 3.0 ports. However, the motherboards we are talking about do not have USB 3.0 headers for those ports. The GD04/GD05 are much cheaper cases. Also, check on Amazon for them. They are often $20 cheaper than Newegg after shipping costs.

The Silverstone Milo ML03B is not an "older" case. It is just a slimmer one. 80mm fans can be quiet - they just won't move as much air at the same noise level as a bigger fan. Not that much airflow is needed with a stock clocked dual core Sandy Bridge CPU. However, if you want to use more than two HDDs, get one of the other cases as the purpose of this case is to be really slim, like your DVR or cable box.

Speaking of cooling the CPU, no need for a $50 aftermarket cooler. Just use the stock cooler and enable a silent fan profile in BIOS. The important thing with the stock cooler is to don't put on extra thermal paste (it already has some pre-applied) and install it properly. I would recommend installing the CPU and cooler with the motherboard OUTSIDE of the case. That way you can look at all four push pins after you are done to make sure the flanges on all of them are completely seated, and flip it over to make sure the pins are through all the way. If properly installed, you should be able to pick up the motherboard by just grasping the heatsink - it should be on that good.

Save $8 on optical drive

That PSU is an SFX sized unit. While it has an adapter plate to make it work, may as well just buy a cheaper ATX PSU since these cases fit ATX PSUs. Oh yeah, and it has the dreaded 80mm fan. Here are some alternatives for you to consider.
XFX 450W $43 shipped after $20 rebate
Antec Neo Eco 400W $48 shipped
Seasonic 350W $49 shipped

The Seasonic would be the most power efficient at your loads, followed by the XFX. Coincidentally I think all three of these come out of Seasonic's factory in China.

Saving on shipping by buying the case from Amazon, plus cheaper PSU, plus not using aftermarket cooler and slightly cheaper motherboard should knock off around $100.

 

[mfenn]

Yeah, but the one big thing it doesn't have is nascar. I know I'll catch flack for it around here but I am a big nascar fan and half the season is on espn. Turner Broadcasting has the internet rights to the sport so no on can stream anything audio or video except for them. The other is football. Does espn3.com do NFL?

You're right, they don't do NASCAR or NFL. I don't care about either of those sports, so they weren't even on my radar. Bummer.

I agree with Ken and Zap's recommendations. I would probably get the Neco Eco because it is only $5 more than the XFX 450W and you don't have to deal with a rebate.

 

[boomhower]

The Milo is now interesting me. Since I am not intending to use this as a full fledged server and just to do media I won't need more than three HD's. Are the stock fans going to do the job quietly? If not I need some suggestions for replacements.

What worries me with the stock cooler is noise. That is why I selected the HS I did, it can run fanless. I don't want to hear it going nuts while it's playing a strenuous 1080P file.

Would I have any issues adding a TV card down the road with the slimmer Milo?

USB 3 isn't a necessity on the front, as long as it has ports around back it's fine. I don't see myself using it a whole lot but I with it fast becoming standard I don't want to hamstring the system

I like the seasonic PSU, I had though about the low power load and higher wattage PSU's not being the most efficient combo.


I do buy most of my stuff through Amazon as I have prime. Newegg just seems more common here and it's what most folks are used to seeing.

 

[mfenn]

The Milo only has 1/2 height PCI slots, so you would need to make sure that any TV tuner that you got supported a 1/2 height bracket. This Hauppauge does for example.

As for the fan, I am actually running an i3 2100 using the stock cooler with the fan unplugged. It's running my VMWare ESXi box, which can sometimes get pretty busy with a lot of VMs and so far the normal airflow through the case has been enough to keep things cool.

 

[boomhower]

Ok. Changed DVD drives to the cheaper one, ASROCK mobo for front USB, Milo case, Seasonic CPU, and no HSF. Price is now down to less than $400, cheaper than I thought it could be done for. I am worried about noise still though.

 

[mfenn]

You can get a Scythe Shuriken if you are worried about noise from the stock HSF. It's only about 2.5" tall.

 

[boomhower]

You can get a Scythe Shuriken if you are worried about noise from the stock HSF. It's only about 2.5" tall.

Looks like a perfect solution for the slimmer case.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Looks like a perfect solution for the slimmer case.

 

[boomhower]

Well, I think I have it settled now. Against my better judgement I am going to go with the slimmer case. I am still concerned about heat/noise and ultimate expandability but the two things pushing me to the smaller case is the size and cost. After watching some youtube vids the GD06 is absolutely massive. I looked at the older and hence cheaper versions but the GD but they are just flat ugly. Hopefully some Noctua fans will control the heat quietly and USB 3 does alleviate concerns about space down the road if I do go into a collecting mode again, but for now I don't have the time or patience to work on a digital collection.

Silverstone ML03 Case
ASRock H67M-GE/HT (B3)
Intel G530
Windows 7 Home Premium
SeaSonic SS-350ET
Scythe SCSK-1100
Ceton InfiniTV 4 Quad-tuner Card

Total comes to $634.92

No additional fans to start, at $17 a pop I'll see how it does and add them as needed.

I'm skipping a DVD drive all together. I never use them and will just install the OS via a flash drive. Disc based video will be done on the PS3.

I got my new Momentus XT for my notebook in today and will transplant it's 60GB SSD(Vertex or Vertex 2, I don't recall off hand) into this box along with a 2TB WD Green drive. I do need to find a remote but that's a relatively minor thing.

The tuner card was a last minute addition. I hadn't planned on one but if I am going to keep cable I want HD. I found out my cable company only charges $3 a month for them so I figured why not, I'll skip Hulu+ and call it a wash.

With that in mind, is there any reason for a CPU with more horsepower? That tuner card has four tuners. So, watch one and record three. Now I don't see myself recording three or four shows at once very often but since it has the capability I want hardware to do it. Also assume I'll be watching a 1080P MKV at the same time, hey, worst case scenario.

Along the same lines is the PSU good? I know the brand is well respected but I am getting iffy, I can't even find out exactly what connectors it has. Their website sucks. I'm leaning towards the Antec even though I'm probably going to lose some efficiency which is important since this will be a 24/7 rig.

The cost is on the high end of what I want to spend but if it does what I want it to do it will be reasonable.(Saves $48 a month on two DVR's, 13 months to break even, not to mention the capabilities gained) It will also make streaming to other TV's easier and I do that quite a bit.

I do genuinely appreciate the help guys, it's been some damn good advice and suggestions. Now lets get it polished off with some final thoughts!

 

[mfenn]

Looks good to me. The tuner is basically going to be dumping the transport stream to disk, so I believe that you will be bottlenecked by your HDD more than your CPU speed when trying to dump 4 streams. 2.4GHz bothers me a little bit still, but you don't get significantly higher clock speeds until you get to the i3, which is over twice as much.

As for the PSU, yes it is good. Newegg's cable shot shows that it has plenty of Molex and SATA connectors, which are what really matter for this machine.

 

[Zap]

Are the stock fans going to do the job quietly? If not I need some suggestions for replacements.

What worries me with the stock cooler is noise. That is why I selected the HS I did, it can run fanless. I don't want to hear it going nuts while it's playing a strenuous 1080P file.

Stock fans are probably fine. If too noisy, just undervolt them.

Stock cooler should be fine too. Go into BIOS and select a quiet fan profile. I know you already choose a Scythe Shuriken, but IMO it isn't necessary for a dual core Sandy Bridge at stock speeds. Here is why:
1) Stock Intel fans are only noisy at full speeds. Majority of motherboards are able to reduce CPU fan speeds.
2) CPU does NOT need to run icy cold. I know every "enthusiast" and their 15 year old internet buddy thinks no CPU should run hotter than body temperature, but srsly a stock clocked Sandy Bridge CPU is perfectly happy running 80&#186;C or higher at full 100&#37; synthetic loads.

Against my better judgement I am going to go with the slimmer case. I am still concerned about heat/noise and ultimate expandability but the two things pushing me to the smaller case is the size and cost. After watching some youtube vids the GD06 is absolutely massive.

Just think - the GD04/05/06 are just about the slimmest HTPC cases you can get while still retaining full height expansion slots. If that's still too big, then you are left with the Milo.

You should post pics of your entertainment center once the Milo is installed, so we can all drool and nerd out over it.

 

[mfenn]

You should post pics of your entertainment center once the Milo is installed, so we can all drool and nerd out over it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Agree 100%

 

[boomhower]

Well parts are ordered. I went with the last list I posted. While the Shuriken may not be really needed with as cramped as this case is I don't want to get it everything installed and then have to pretty much completely disassemble it to swap it out, that's worth $35 in frustration prevention to me. Just got off the phone with Time Warner and they have the cable card in the mail. I should be able to assemble Friday afternoon so hopefully it will get here then, but I have a feeling it will be Monday or Tuesday before I get the cable card. I'll post picks when I get it up and running.

 

[mfenn]

Sweet. Let us know how the cable card install goes, I've heard they can be a little finicky.

 

[boomhower]

Sweet. Let us know how the cable card install goes, I've heard they can be a little finicky.

That's going to be a to part process. TW would only send me one tuner adapter in the mail, evidently the card and TA come as a kit. I'll have to go down to a local store and pick up a second once I get it up and running.(one TA per two tuners) Hopefully it will go smooth.

 

[boomhower]

Well, the build commenced today. Time Warner sucks and the cable didn't arrive but I got the system together. It's been a few years since I have built anything and this case is cramped, but it powered on the first try so I didn't forget to much. Now for the pics:

Christmas #2

Yeah, it's tight

Just got tighter:

Making progress:

A mess in the making:

And the rat nest is complete:

Not much I can do with the cabling. There is another HD under the tray, there just isn't any room in there. I haven't done a lot of messing other than installing drivers and some light surfing/netflix. So far I am impressed. It's very responsive and quick. Only issue I am having is my TV doesn't want to stick my settings that get the screen to display correctly. Every time I restart the PC I have to redo the settings on the TV. Since TW sucks and UPS doesn't deliver on Saturday, combined with a Monday holiday it's going to be Tuesday or Wednesday before I get this thing actually up and running. I'm happy so far, we'll see how it goes next week.

 

[Zap]

Nice! Now how about a pic with the cover on and the PC cavorting with your other home theater gear? We needs our nerd pr0n!

BTW the cabling can get a bit better if you put some time into it, along with some cable ties.

 

[mfenn]

Gotta love it when you put a computer together for the first time in a while and everything works out. Kind of like putting on an old glove that you're unsure will fit.

What's the clearance like on the Scythe?

 

[boomhower]

I'll get a pic of the case with the cover on. No real good set-up pic though, we're in temporary living arrangements at the in-laws. Sold our place and are house hunting so most of the gear is put up in storage. I just wanted to get this thing up and running so when we do move it's ready to go so it's one less thing that has to be done during a move.

There's plenty of room with the Scythe. Vertical room isn't an issue really.

Yeah, the cabling could be better with some work. But since there is no air flow over there there's not a real point and I'm not OCD about it. Air comes from the side near the motherboard and from a vent over the HSF. The PSU vents out the bottom.

I'm still impressed with the performance of this thing. That little Celeron really get's the job done. From installing updates to playing 1080P video it just works. I've yet to see an hour glass. For a basic computer it's a great little chip.

I also picked up one of the new Lenove HTPC remotes with the backlit keyboard. Got a good deal on it at $36 from Lenovo but they are backordered until the middle of January, but I'm not paying $70 from Amazon. The ancient wireless mouse and keyboard I acquired from my step-son just isn't getting the job done. The Media Center remote I got works great. Even puts it to sleep and wakes up the PC. But for web browsing and the other little things that need to be done in the OS I need a keyboard and mouse.