Need a ~50gig external tape backup solution (around $200)

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Originally posted by: Peter
That was meant to say exactly what it said.

So it was a rhetorical question.. Because if it wasn't a rhetorical question, it wouldn't 'say' anything.

And it being a rhetorical question, odds are it was ment to be rude (taken in the given context).

Anyways, I see youare just trying to save face now.

 

[trend]

Wow.. I take off the terminator off the external tape drive enclosure.. and the tape drive is detected by the bios and by windows!

Strange.. Or is it?

 

[Peter]

I won't hook up to your repeated attempts at dragging this into personals. Got that?

No rhethorical questions in here. Is your client happy with your progress, yes or no? Is this task over your head, yes or no?

Last hint: If you take the terminator off and it suddenly "works", then your cabling isn't correctly done. Check termination (one each end), distance between devices, total cable length, actual (!) operating mode of the SCSI chain (LVD vs. SE), suitability of the terminators for this mode.

 

[trend]

Ok, if you didn't mean it badly, I am sorry, I missread it :/

We haven't had a backup solution for this box ever.. So an extra month, isn't horrible, but I hate it because it is consuming my time. As far as over my head, I haven't done this in 3 years(?) and I barely remember.. And I need to start brushing up before some other potential projects.

-Distance of cable: 6 foot
-cable lenght: 6 foot
-The LSI has auto termination on it's side.. If I do termination on tape drive side, the tape drive isn't seen (possiblty wrong terminator? I am using a 'Sun differential 150-1890-02')
-not sure about operating mode of SCSI chaing.. I didn't know I had control over this outside of the hardware arena.. guess I will check into this.

Anyways, thanks for the help.. Again, I am sorry if you didn't mean the comment to be what I thought it was. (But I htink you would agree, if you read it in context, you would wrongly assume the same )

--edit-- actually.. the tape drive is identified in the bios/2k3.. but when I go to try to use it (via windows backup tool), it never starts backing up.. if I remember right, this is what is suppose to happen when you don't terminate one side.. right?

 

[Peter]

If you don't terminate (or don't terminate correctly), the device might still enumerate correctly (i.e. it is seen), but transmissions will most certainly fail. You should see the SCSI driver's complaints in the system event log.

The operating mode of the SCSI chain can be expected from the "verbose" screen output of the LSI BIOS. It'll tell you the detected drives, and the planned transfer speed and width toward each device. If it's LVD (it's not, given the controller you're using) you need an LVD terminator or a multimode one, if it's single-ended UltraSCSI (20 MB/s with Narrow cabling, 40 MB/s with Wide cabling) you'll need an Ultra certified "active" terminator, and with all slower SE modes, you /should/ have active termination but don't /have/ to.

Also, you need to make sure that termination /power/ is supplied to the cable. The LSI controller does that, but the drive on the far end of the cable should do so too. Check the jumpers, and while you're at it, check whether the tape drive happens to have onboard termination itself.

Six feet is a tad optimistic for single-ended "Ultra" mode, but feasible with two devices and really good cable.

The LSI BIOS lets you limit the SCSI mode to a lower speed than auto-negotiated - per controller channel, and/or per individual device. This is your last resort if you don't get it going at the best possible speed despite doing everything else correctly.

 

[trend]

Crap... these makes sense now..
I have a compaq 35/70gb dlt external tape drive box.. Windows (and the LSI bios) says it is a quantom dlt7000 (http://www.sprague-magnetics.com/library/dlt7000ds.pdf)

Supports SCSI-2 Fast/Wide (single-ended or differential)

I bet my scsi card is trying to use SE (as well as the tape drive).. and my terminator is ''Sun differential 150-1890-02' ( http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5812692675&category=51238 )
Well.. actually.. some people report this terminator as HVD.. but I am not 100percent sure.. it just says differential on the side of it.

Does this sound right? (Peter, I don't mind paying you something for all your help.. I am not soooo tight with money, it is just we don't have any local experts here)

 

[trend]

On sun's website they say:
"Part number 150-1890-02 HVD terminators are used for SCSI devices that support differential SCSI interface. Most of Sun's older libraries are HVD. For Sun HVD external terminators, look on the case of the terminator, there should be a symbol which indicates that it is a differential terminator. "

from:
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:TF-...Fassetkey%3D1-9-30-1+150-1890-02&hl=en

So I definitly have the wrong terminator ? :/

 

[Peter]

So ... lets see how this fits together.

Your SCSI host adapter card is single-ended mode, capable of up to Ultra speed (20 MHz), for 40 or 20 MB/s on Wide or Narrow cabling respectively. This we know for sure.

The DLT streamer you link to comes in single-ended or differential (the old, incompatible HVD kind that requires special host adapters). Check here:
http://www.quantum.com/ServiceandSuppor.../DLT7000/PartNumbersDLT7000/Index.aspx
Its maximum interface speed is Fast (10 MHz), for 20 or 10 MB/s with Wide or Narrow cabling. The SCSI host adapter should automatically talk to the drive at that speed, but only if it's the single-ended version (it apparently is, since it does enumerate. If it were HVD, it'd keep its interface off the bus since SCSI does have builtin safety against plugging stuff together that doesn't work together.)

Your 6-foot cable is OK for "Fast" speed, if it has been manufactured to SCSI specifications.

Your terminator is of an unknown "differential" kind. Does it say something like LVD/SE somewhere, or just "differential"? If it's not an LVD/SE multimode terminator, it's unsuitable.

 

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It just says differential, has 'the' symbol for the type of diff.. and has a part number:
http://www.powerleaf.com/100_0472.jpg (both sides are identical)

So you say just buy LVD/SE (something like: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Dell-68-Pin-LVD...054QQcategoryZ3668QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem )
(in this listing it says for scsi-3.. but that is just the 'protocol' if you will?)

thanks! just let me know your paypal, and I would be happy to give you something (granted, I am a poor college student and Cannot give much, but I would be honored to give you something since you helped me out so much!)

 

[Peter]

That looks a lot like an old HVD terminator. (The LED shows you whether there's enough termination power on the cable, btw.)

You'll need an "active" terminator, either SE-only or LVD/SE multimode - like the Dell part shown.

You did check the tape drive is the SE model, just to be sure?

I'll send you a private message with my paypal details. You're welcome

 

[Steve]

I'll bet you one of these will work. Peter, would it be the first one on that list, or one of the last two?

 

[Peter]

One of the LAST two would work, and possibly fit - assuming the tape drive has the normal size 68-pin connectors, not the Very High Density ones as found on the host adapter card.

 

[trend]

I ordered the dell one.. Yes, the tape drive has the db68 connector ( told you I am learning something! )

Hey what about $15 for peter and $10 for sm8000?
You'll fine with that? I wish I could give you'll more, but.. I cannot right now

 

[Steve]

I'll decline the money, but thanks anyway.

 

[Peter]

This here is supposed to be a community helping each other out, but as I wrote in private message, if you deem it appropriate, you'll be welcome. I'll donate the money forward to our local computer recycling effort run by homeless men.

 

[trend]

Yeah, I will definitly donate some money.

I got the terminator in yesterday.. and installed it.

Now the tape drive enumerates in the BIOS as well as windows (with the terminator installed).

I stick in a tape, loads fine.. then i go to the 'backup' program in win2k3 and try to backup.. it lets me select the DLT as destination.. and I selecte the 'new' media option.. then hit finish.. Then it just stays at this screen:

http://www.powerleaf.com/freeze.JPG

Maybe a side issue.. maybe a relavent issue.. sometimes, my tape drive has all the right lights flashing (which means hardware malfunction).. this normally happens after I try to run the backup program unsuccesfully and I try to eject the tape... I just have to turn the tape drive off, turn computer off, turn tape on, turn computer on... then it works again.. (granted this leds blinking doesn't happen everytime the backup 'fails')

any ideas?

thanks!

 

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Hmm.. got it working this time (I inserted the tape after windows booted up.. that was really the only diff).. And the tape drive displayed via the leds that it had a 35 gig w/compression option tape (I am using dlt tape iv.. 40gb/80gb tapes.. granted my tape drive only supports up to 35gig/70gig.. will this be a problem)?


Anyways, the backup program begins to work, I see it saying it is mounting the tape.. then after 10 seconds, it displays this error (and the device manager is opened to the related error as well.. the related error is duplicated in the error log 3 times right next to each other as you see) and the right side lights on the tape drive start blinking (drive malfunction)
http://www.powerleaf.com/err.JPG

Ideas?

 

[Peter]

Hi again, great to see we're still making progress.

Quite obviously you should be using media that the drive actually supports.

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: trend
(I am using dlt tape iv.. 40gb/80gb tapes.. granted my tape drive only supports up to 35gig/70gig.. will this be a problem

What Peter is trying to say, is "yes."

 

[trend]

Are you'll sure? because at another location we have been using a Quantom dlt7000 drive tape autoloader with these exact tapes for years and they work fine.

On the tapes.. It says:

40/80gig Native/compressed for DLT 8000, DLT1, and vs80
35gb/70gb dlt 7000
20gb/40gb dlt 4000

 

[Peter]

As I said, check tape compatibility. If tape and drive maker both say the combination is OK, then that isn't your problem. Still, you should try the usual stuff like formatting and/or retensioning the tape(s) first. Retension, then format.

 

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Yeah! tape drive install complete on location

Oh yeah.. fyi.. the tape drive was bad!! I ordered a new one, and things work great right off the bat (granted, I have to use a cleaning tape every 3 or 4 tape uses.....).

Peter, I will send you some paypal on friday (right now paypal's site is down for maintaince :/ )

thanks again guys!

 

[Peter]

Finally! Aren't you glad that the customer's machine didn't crash before you were done? You're welcome.

How come so much cleaning tape use? I'd have said every 100 hours or so. What's different with THIS setup?