Need 2Gb memory kit to run at 229MHz

[5t3v0]

Originally posted by: BOLt
i've got 1gb dimms of corsair valueselect that can do 229MHz @ 1T. see the link in my sig. LMK!

Is that on the default timings & voltage? That's pretty exceptional for these rams isnt it? I'm not sure I really want to take the risk with buying low spec ram that may or may not overclock. At least with DDR500 you can at least gurantee to run at 250MHz & hopefully more. The difference in price between the Corsair Value & G.Skill HZ is about £35 ($62). Over the next couple of years that I will own them, its probably worth it. I still cant decide if the ZX is a better buy. I've read some where that later batches of the ZX have been overclocking poorlythough.

 

[5t3v0]

Well I took the plunge and ordered a 2Gb kit of G.Skill HZ off OCUK. They should arrive tomorrow so I'll post my results as soon as.

 

[5t3v0]

G.Skill HZ arrived & installed. First impressions arent great. SPD for these at 250MHz seems to be 3-5-5-10 rather than the quoted 3-4-4-8. Still, they run at 3-4-4-8 at this speed no problem. Overclocking isnt good though - they wont do 1 pass of memtest @ 270MHz not even on 3-5-5-10. Not tried to find where the max is yet. Wont be much use to me anyway on a 280HTTx 9 cpu because of divider limitations. I have 3dmark05 benchmarked on 166 & 183* divider (* using A64Tweaker) but havent been that impressed with the results. The cpu scores are definately up, but game scores are hardly changed. Now of course this was always going to be the case, but I invariably start off optimistically expectant with these things then end up having nothing but bad luck. I should have listened to my own advice and gone for value memory. At least I can now get on with FEAR.

Here's all my benchmarks in descending order of game score.

Size__MHz_Timings_CR_3DMarks_CPUmarks
1024...229....2-3-3-6...1T....6478.........5297
2048...252....3-4-4-8...1T....6454.........5233
1024...229....3-4-4-8...1T....6453.........4975
1024...180....2-3-3-6...1T....6453.........4869
1024...229....2-3-3-6...2T....6451.........4939
2048...229....3-4-4-8...1T....6447.........5132
1024...229....3-4-4-8...2T....6437.........4849

My current setup (top bold) isnt too far behind the best with my old ram so at least I've gone from 1Gb to 2Gb without significant performance loss. Was it worth the £160 I paid (less whatever I get on ebay for the GeIL)? Only time will tell.

Is it worth putting this in a new thread?

 

[Bad Actor]

Problem solved:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231021

 

[edmundoab]

whatever you do, try to avoid 2T man

 

[MrSpadge]

What about the HZ at 229MHz and tighter timings? Might be a pain to find out (with nice bluescreens on the way ) but could definitely be worth it, if they'd do something like 2.5-3-3 at that clock.
Got my Ballistix replacement shipped today... mhhh, shiny ones! Still have to order my new ones.

MrS

 

[5t3v0]

What a nightmare I've had with A64Tweaker, the 0.6 Beta didnt save the values I set so when I tried to apply on startup it would BSOD. The 0.31 version was also unstable when used on startup so I've given up the idea of using the 183 divider for now. I will hassel Epox to put it in a future BIOS release (likely).

So I tried playing around with the timings as MrSpadge suggested and have been pleasantly surprised. I went straight to 2.5-3-3-7 & ran 3 passes of memtest without errors (will run for longer later). I then ran Everest & Sandra and beat or roughly equalled most of my scores from the 2x512Mb modules. The 3dmark05 scores were also very good and beat those from running at 252MHz at the default timings. The game score is still fractionally short of my best score with 1024Mb but the cpu score p1sses all over it. I think this is where I'll stick.

Size__MHz_Timings__CR_3DMarks_CPUmarks
1024...229....2.0-3-3-6...1T....6478.........5297
2048...229....2.5-3-3-7...1T....6460.........5977
2048...252....3.0-4-4-8...1T....6454.........5233
1024...229....3.0-4-4-8...1T....6453.........4975
1024...180....2.0-3-3-6...1T....6453.........4869
1024...229....2.0-3-3-6...2T....6451.........4939
2048...229....3.0-4-4-8...1T....6447.........5132
1024...229....3.0-4-4-8...2T....6437.........4849

EDIT: Forgot to say that I tried cas2 but it wouldn't even post. I need to try tightening some of the other timings now - trfc defaults to 24! I also forgot to mention that I've set the memory to 2.8v so am not outside the spec.

 

[MrSpadge]

229MHz @ 2.5-3-3 - that should be it. You can try 2.5-3-2, but you'd have to be really lucky. And be carefull with all the other timings in A64 tweaker - usually they don't do much, but you can quickly make your system unstable with too tight ones. Anyway, it's nice to play around with it
One more thing: your CPU score bump to 5977 looks amazing! Are you sure you didn't change something else, e.g. the driver? 2.5-3-3-1T shouldn't be that much faster than 2-3-3-1T at the same clock.
Ordered my G.Skill ZX yesterday, but shipping will take some time. I'll post the results when I get them.

MrS

 

[5t3v0]

I was surprised at that. I changed in the BIOS so nothing else was touched. It was the second run cause I forgot to export the stats from the first run. Dont know if that makes any difference. I'll run it again to see if its wildly different. I'll try the other tweak too - do you mean tRP?

I'll be intrested to see how those ZXs perform in comparision. What speed are you looking to get out of them?

 

[MrSpadge]

Trp or Trcd. Can't remember which one because both were at 2 with my Ballistix
It would be very interesting to see the 1st and 2nd run of 3D Mark deviate that much. But let's keep it unguilty until proven wrong.

The ZX: I should be able to run 209MHz @ 2-3-2, or preferably 227MHz @ 2.5-3-2. If I'm lucky I might get 250MHz @ 2.5-3-2, maybe 2.5-3-3. But the 250Mhz is more like a possible bonus, I'm looking for nice timings around 230Mhz. Maybe I'll push my CPU a bit more, 2.60GHz @ 1.4V instead of 2.50GHz @ 1.35V.

Mr "waiting for new toys" S

 

[Diasper]

I was about to say if you couldn't have got the HZs for £161 the other thing you could have looked into is Crucial Value sticks - you can get 2x1GB for approx £112 (4% discount code + 7% quidco.com cashback).

Previously, they have clocked quite well circa 240mhz when they were produced on the earlier (faulty) Ballistix production line - now they should be different so will be more of an unknown.

Nevertheless, for £112 or so they're pretty good value.

 

[5t3v0]

Originally posted by: MrSpadge
It would be very interesting to see the 1st and 2nd run of 3D Mark deviate that much. But let's keep it unguilty until proven wrong.

Ran twice without closing 3dmark05 & the same thing happened again. Is this a bug or a caching effect?

1st run
3DMarks= 6454
CPUMarks = 5101

2nd run
3DMarks= 6456
CPUMarks = 6110

EDIT: Just restarted 3dmark05 & ran again & cpu score is back to around the 1st run result. Weird.

3rd run
3DMarks= 6468
CPUMarks = 5118

 

[MrSpadge]

Might have to ask the vid-guys whether it's already an old story.
By the way: your getting lees CPU Marks at 229MHz 2.5-3-3 than at 252MHz 3-4-4. I'm sure in normal applications the first config would be faster, but 3D Marks CPU Test is extremely bandwidth hungry.

MrS

 

[5t3v0]

I noticed the cpu score was down, but not massively enought to worry about though. Tried reducing some more timings but wouldn't POST with trp or trcd lowered to 2. I did however lower tras to 6 and run a pass of memtest without errors (memtest takes 40mins to run through once with 2Gb so couldnt be bothered to do more passes just now). The effect on the 3dmark05 cpu tests was quite positive (used the 1st run to be consistent). Here's the scores (with the previous 2.5-3-3-7 results corrected to use the first run - lowest score used):

Size__MHz_Timings__CR_3DMarks_CPUmarks
1024...229....2.0-3-3-6...1T....6478.........5297
2048...229....2.5-3-3-6...1T....6458.........5387
2048...229....2.5-3-3-7...1T....6454.........5101
2048...252....3.0-4-4-8...1T....6454.........5233
1024...229....3.0-4-4-8...1T....6453.........4975
1024...180....2.0-3-3-6...1T....6453.........4869
1024...229....2.0-3-3-6...2T....6451.........4939
2048...229....3.0-4-4-8...1T....6447.........5132
1024...229....3.0-4-4-8...2T....6437.........4849

 

[MrSpadge]

OK, it would have been a nice bonus, if the tighter timings worked
I'm wondering how reliable this 3DM CPU test is when 229MHz 3-4-4-8 is faster than 229MHz 2.5-3-3-7. And Tras shouldn't make such a difference, that's why I'm rather quoting command rate as the 4th parameter than Tras. OK, it's just a bench, but if you're taking the time to run benches, they should at least give some useful number.

MrS

Edit: tried to play some BF2 today with 1GB of RAM and BOINC + 2 x Rosetta + WinXP already consuming 600MB... my poor hdd!

 

[5t3v0]

I think you're right about 3DM. Its not the most consistent benchmark tool for cpu/memory benching. Is PCMark05 any better? Did you post a question about the 2nd score being significantly higher than the 1st? I'd be interested to know why that happens.

Edit: As for tRAS, all the literature says the effect on bandwidth is only slight but I saw noticible differences in cpumarks when moving from 7 to 6 with both this G.Skill and with my previous 512Mb GeIL modules.

 

[MrSpadge]

Now, I'm just waiting for the answer to appear miraculously
PCMark05? May be worth trying. I'm normally using Everest, Super Pi, 3DM01 and WinRAR (built in bench) to do quick memory dependent tests.
I'll take a look at tRAS when I do my benchies with my new mem.

MrS

 

[RelaxTheMind]

ddr550 1:1 ratio = 2 thumbs up

 

[MrSpadge]

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
ddr550 1:1 ratio = 2 thumbs up

Yeah, especially with 3-4-4 timings this really rocks. Sandra buffered shows it
BTW: anyone knew that "geil" means horny / randy in German? They don't sell much over here...

MrS

 

[5t3v0]

A word of warning with these G.Skills - dont give them too much voltage. I was having stability issues running Prime95 until I lowered the vdimm from 2.8v to 2.6v. I assumed after my GeILs that memory loves voltage but that's clearly not always the case. Those GeILs must have been a horny pair of RAMs!!! Just sold them for £48 on Ebay. Would liked to have got more but considering you can buy them new for £60 its not a bad price I guess.

 

[MrSpadge]

I know the Infineons, which most of the high-performance 1GB DIMMs use, don't like voltage either. And TCCD didn't scale so well with higher voltages.. depends on the chips.
I put my Ballistix on eBay yesterday, 1? so far but already 15 people observing. Should get interesting, even if they're more gorgeous rather than horny! (and I'm not speaking about the people

MrS

 

[MrSpadge]

So, I got my ZX 2 days ago and I'm not impressed with the overclockability. However, absolute performance is still a big thumbs up!
Default timings at 200MHz are 2-3-2-5 and I quickly noticed that they were some picky kind of RAM, when CAS 2 wasn't possible any more at 208MHz. Plus I couldn't get 227MHz stable, even at 2.5-3-3-relaxed. I found a nice post at Anand with a link to a good XTremesystems thread. Here a G.Skill tech guy let the readers choose a random number between 1 and 100, then picked the ZX set with that number and immidiately got 250MHz at 3-3-2-5 out of them and showed the timings he used for that. I didn't read much of that thread (too late), but bottom line was that it also worked quite well for other pairs.
So I tried it yesterday and could do quick benchies up to 245MHz, but it was unstable even at 227MHz 3-3-2 @ 2.75V, my next step for a 2.5GHz CPU clock. The timings used are quite aggressive, so now I'm at 2.5-3-2-very fast, 208MHz @ 2.6V and quite fast + stable. I had hoped for 2-3-2 at that clock, but hey, it's fast anyway

Some benchies, comparing this to my previous setup with the same CPU & clock, but the Ballistix at 227MHz 2.5-2-2-fast:

- Super Pi 1M: 34.45s to 34.09s
- Everest read/write/latency: 5771 / 2545 / 52.3 to 6154 / 2192 / 48.9
- WinRAR [kb/s]: 578 to 620

For 3DMarks I have to compare to my curent X2 3800+ to my 3000+ wini @ 2.50GHz, with older drivers:

- 3DM01: 21656 to 21474
- 3DM03: 9077 to 8769, CPU: 1278 to 1189 (wini @ 2.53GHz, mem 230MHz 2.5-2-2-medium)
- 3DM05: 3738 to 3752, CPU: 6665 to 5491 (should be the dual core + driver)

This is all not very important stuff, I know

MrS

 

[Diasper]

Originally posted by: nealh
it has been shown by several sources and you found the same thing..ram is not very important to a point..big $$$ on ram is wasted..Angry Games at DFI street(he is a mod) showed 1t vs 2t and memory speed has little performance gains..on AMD=CPU speed is king

I got 2 x 1gb of crucial valuram(not the binned ballistix that was around in summer for a while..I missed this) from newegg that has done very well

It does not like alot of voltage 2.8v anything more and it does worse

pc3200 that I got to 250mhz at 3-3-3-7-1t with my venice cpu...needs to set lower to work with my DC and maintain Prime stability

memtest 86 @250mhz was ok for 6hrs with no errors

I would think 230mhz should be a good bet on this ram but as always OC is YMMV

My brother just got some and a preliminary test so no real tweaking he got to 245mhz at 3-3-3 @2.8V (they failed 250mhz) so not bad at all. Considering they can be had for as little as £108 inc VAT & delivery (4% discount code + actually 10% (not 9%) quidco.com cashback), they seem a pretty damn good deal.

Also a quick point what are chances that DDR prices will go up? The inquirer have reported Samsung and Hynix have increased prices following switching production from DRAM to NAND memory - and that other memory manufacturers may follow this price rise.

 

[5t3v0]

MrS, I'm sorry to hear that the OCing on those ZXs hasnt been up to par. I cant say I'm too surprised though. I've read several similar stories to yours which is why I went for the HZs, which were also cheaper. As hard as I try, I just cant get the HZs to run at CAS 2.5 at 229MHz nor can I OC them to 275MHz on timings as loose as 3-5-5-10. So for now I've settled at 229MHz 3-3-3-7 1T. I've also tightened up most of the other timings available in my BIOS. A few comparisons with my previous 1Gb GeIL kit show that there's a neglible performance loss from the slower timings & having the 2Gb is definate improvement in FEAR & the like. Here's a few comparative benchies between the 1Gb GeIL 2.5-3-3-6 and the 2Gb G.Skill 3-3-3-7, both at 229MHz.

Test......................GeIL......G.Skill
Everest Read.........6286......6389
Everest Write.........2647......2573
Everest Latency......42.7......45.4
Sandra Int.............6488......6461
Sandra Float..........6422......6403
3DMark05 CPU.......5270.....5119
3DMark05 Game....6452......6458