NEC LCD1850X vs. Samsung 181T --- FIGHT!! and the winner iss......

[gunf1ghter]

I have written a review at ARS Technica that details the 1850X that I ordered.

Ars Technica Write up by me on the NEC 1850X




I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these guys. They appear to be two of the best/better 18" LCD's available for around $1000. The Samsung has gotten a little bit more press than the NEC, but the NEC has won several awards. No stores around here cary either one of them.

This display will be for my home PC hooked up to the DVI output of my TI4400 GF4. I plan to play a fair amount of CS with this but also do quite a bit of web stuff, etc, and I really don't want to throw my money away on another blurry CRT tube. An option that I am not too fond of (but might have no choice with) is to get an LCD panel just for my desktop and text stuff and run dual head to my 19" Samsung CRT for gaming. I would really like a good panel that can run games... but using the CRT all the time is killing my eyes.

The Samsung has 25 ms response times, the NEC shows 30 ms, but Tom's Hardware indicated that a 15" NEC panel based on the same technology as this 18" one had the best response times (least ghosting) of any model they had seen.

Any help is much appreciated... I was going to order the Planar PV174 from Dell for $699 shipped, but cancellled it after finding out that it has the same MVA panel that is used in the Viewsonic VA800/VG175. I had previously purchased the VA800 and was very impressed with it in windows desktop, but disappointed with how it looked in games (over saturated colors and noticeable ghosting.. and that's with the 25ms spec for this panel).

 

[upwardspiral]

i have a samsung 770tft (17in) and the nec 570v (15in), both are analog and i have not had any problems gaming. however my gaming is limited to everquest and c&c.

nec has gotten better reviews but it costs more from what i have read. if cash isnt a problem, get that. if it is, im sure you wont have any problems with the samsung.

 

[BMW330ci]

<< I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these guys. They appear to be two of the best/better 18" LCD's available for around $1000. The Samsung has gotten a little bit more press than the NEC, but the NEC has won several awards. No stores around here cary either one of them.

This display will be for my home PC hooked up to the DVI output of my TI4400 GF4. I plan to play a fair amount of CS with this but also do quite a bit of web stuff, etc, and I really don't want to throw my money away on another blurry CRT tube. An option that I am not too fond of (but might have no choice with) is to get an LCD panel just for my desktop and text stuff and run dual head to my 19" Samsung CRT for gaming. I would really like a good panel that can run games... but using the CRT all the time is killing my eyes.

The Samsung has 25 ms response times, the NEC shows 30 ms, but Tom's Hardware indicated that a 15" NEC panel based on the same technology as this 18" one had the best response times (least ghosting) of any model they had seen.

Any help is much appreciated... I was going to order the Planar PV174 from Dell for $699 shipped, but cancellled it after finding out that it has the same MVA panel that is used in the Viewsonic VA800/VG175. I had previously purchased the VA800 and was very impressed with it in windows desktop, but disappointed with how it looked in games (over saturated colors and noticeable ghosting.. and that's with the 25ms spec for this panel). >>



I'm tempted in purchasing the NEC LCD1850X too. Can anyone here comment on this monitor? Please? =)

 

[gunf1ghter]

Ya, information on the NEC is very scarce... I do know that when it was introduced it had a $1599 price tag so it had to be an upper level display.

Last night I bought the Mitsu E85LCD-BLK at Best Buy which appears to be a re-badged NEC 1850E. The panel was fantastic in windows, but exhibited a lot of blurring in games. I brought it back. The pixel response time was not published but the NEC 1850E has a pixel speed of about 50 ms. The 1850X has a pixel speed of around 30 ms. I am not sure if that is good enough for gaming, since manufacturers seem to do funky things when quoting pixel speed.

I have seen post after post on both of these panels where people ask someone who bought either of these "how does it do in FPS games" and never a single response. Apparently the only people buying these things are web jockeys.

 

[BMW330ci]

<< Ya, information on the NEC is very scarce... I do know that when it was introduced it had a $1599 price tag so it had to be an upper level display.

Last night I bought the Mitsu E85LCD-BLK at Best Buy which appears to be a re-badged NEC 1850E. The panel was fantastic in windows, but exhibited a lot of blurring in games. I brought it back. The pixel response time was not published but the NEC 1850E has a pixel speed of about 50 ms. The 1850X has a pixel speed of around 30 ms. I am not sure if that is good enough for gaming, since manufacturers seem to do funky things when quoting pixel speed.

I have seen post after post on both of these panels where people ask someone who bought either of these "how does it do in FPS games" and never a single response. Apparently the only people buying these things are web jockeys. >>



Here is a small review for you: PC MAGAZINE

Looks like PC Magazine doesn't like it too much.

I have the Sony SDM-N80 18" LCD and the total response is 45ms. Believe it or not, it runs on Quake 3 and other FPS pretty well. I can imagine 25~30MS would be even better. There are noticable ghosting on my N80 when I scroll up and down on a webpage with a black background, which is the reason why I'd like to get a monitor that is a bit better.
I'd get the Samsung 171P but I would prefer an 18" model. I'm sure Samsung is in the works of an 18" 181P?

 

[gunf1ghter]

Unfortunately you can find poor reviews of every single monitor out there.

There is a bad review of the famed Samsung 181T at www.pcmag.com

The sucky thing about this is that noone stocks the higher end panels locally.

I might just flip a coin and order one of these from buy.com as they have a pretty reasonable return policy.

 

[BMW330ci]

<< Unfortunately you can find poor reviews of every single monitor out there.

There is a bad review of the famed Samsung 181T at www.pcmag.com

The sucky thing about this is that noone stocks the higher end panels locally.

I might just flip a coin and order one of these from buy.com as they have a pretty reasonable return policy. >>



Yeah, agreed.. do you have a link of the 181T? I tried searching at PCMAG.COM however the results are links to their discussion board. I was considering the 181T too but no specs on its response time.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Sorry it was at pcworld that the 181T got panned for bad image quality.

181t review

 

[jiggler]

yeah i read that review... and that's exactly why i bought the 171p... and i have no regrets whatsoever... this thing impresses me more and more everyday

sure a bigger monitor would be nicer, and that's the only gripe about the 171p... but i wouldn't trade it in for the image quality the 171p produces

in fact i just bought a sony f520 CRT (21") from ubid so i could replace my sony 19" CRT (i have a dual monitor setup, where i play my games on the CRT), only to be VERY disappointed...

the f520 is totally washed out and blurry (that's what i get for getting a refurbished piece of shiat)... ESPECIALLY when lined up against the sam 171p... so needless to say i've been playing all my games on the sammie, in fact i PREFER to play my games on the sam... and to tell you the truth, i don't even notice the ghosting... max payne plays beautifully on this thing... dungeon siege is fantastic and q3's fps are so high that there is no ghosting

but it sounds like y'all have discriminating eyes so i won't lie to ya... there is ghosting, but it's hardly even noticeable... the color, sharpness and image quality far outweigh the fact that there is a slight, slight blur...

but honestly guys, if ya don't mind me asking: if ghosting is such an issue, and it seems that it IS... then why not spend the $1000 on a "new" (and i stress NEW not refurbished) high end 21" CRT monitor?? <shrug>



but anyways... now i think i'm just gonna sell the lousy 21" f520 and just go with the sam 171p as my primetime monitor... yes, it's that good.

if ya have doubts about the sam 171p, buy it and see for yourself... most places have a 30 day return policy, if you're not satisfied, return it and it's all good.

but at least you'll know if it's for you or if it's not...

i wish i could do the same with my 21" hunk o' junk

 

[gunf1ghter]

Where did you find the 171P in stock? Everyone shows it backordered.

 

[jiggler]

got mine from monitoroutlet.com

these guys shipped it to me in one day... not too bad, especially when shipping is included in their price...

but chances are, they're backordered also

i'd definitely order from these guys again, if you're serious about this monitor, give them a call and they'll tell you exactly when they'll be getting they're stock in... in fact you can order it now, you'll get it the same day they get they're stock...

at least that's what they did fer me...

 

[gunf1ghter]

well, when it comes to brightness, focus, convergence and general picture accuracy no CRT can hold a candle to a better TFT screen.

the probs are the motion blur, and that I play games that only support 4:3 resolutions and all the panels I am looking at are 5:4 (1280X1024)... so I will have stretching of the image if I use the monitor in digital mode (in analog some of them support turning off the stretch, which makes these resolutions totally playable on a larger screen imo. I also think that the motion blur affect is just exaggerated by the scaling algorithm when you play games at lower resolutions and the panel has to scale them up.

I realize that I might be more picky than most (my eyesight is 20/10 and I want to keep it that way) but some people have commented how great the gaming is on some of the panels that I have already tried and returned for BAD ghosting in games that I have to wonder if their half blind or smoking crack.

 

[TSDible]

<< but honestly guys, if ya don't mind me asking: if ghosting is such an issue, and it seems that it IS... then why not spend the $1000 on a "new" (and i stress NEW not refurbished) high end 21" CRT monitor?? <shrug> >>



The main reason I want to switch to an LCD is the depth of my current 19" LCD. It is difficult to find a place to put one of those 21" monsters. I guess if I could find a good flat 19" monitor with the footprint of a 15" monitor I would get that instead.

So far it is still between the 171P, the 181T, and the NEC1850X. The jury is still out.

 

[gunf1ghter]

TS,

I am down to choosing between these three.

Samsung 181T

Looks really good and has some good recommendations from people but that bad review at pcworld has me thinking... hmmmm.

NEC LCD-1850X

I was really impressed with the picture on the 1850e, problem was the pixel response was far too poor... I'm not sure if this one can remedy that, also I'm a little bothered that NEC's #1 target for their higher end displays is the financial market... might not give a crap about gaming quality.

Dell 2000FP

I really like the thought of getting a panel that has a 4:3 aspect ratio... should help dramatically with scaling lower resolution games since they won't get stretched out of their 4:3 aspect ratio to fit on the 5:4 panel. I'm also not sure who the original manufacturer is, but most Dell screens are manufactured by Samsung, so that's probably who makes the panel. Specs are pretty good. Only two drawbacks are that many games won't run at high FPS at 1600X1200 and the cost ($1389 currently with Dell stackable coupons). On the other hand, a big ass 20 incher like that should hold even the most demanding user for 3 years or longer, by which time faster cheaper panels should be available.

I have dropped the 171P out of the running, I just can't see going to a 17" display.. it's just too small. It does look cool and has pretty good specs, but the specifications aren't really that much more impressive than other $1000 displays (and all of those are 18" or 19").

When I tried out the 18" NEC 1850E (re-badged by Mitsu) I was VERY impressed with the real estate an 18" LCD running at 1280X1024 offered (not to mention the phenomenal clarity and brightness). I think that the 20" running at 1600X1200 with a .22 dot pitch would simply knock my boxers off (figuratively speaking of course). A few people at Ars Technica have commented that the Dell 2000FP looks great in games, even those running lower resolutions... of course it's hard to judge those types of evaluations seeing as some users have very low standards for such things.

As I indicated previously, another possibility is that I just run both my CRT and LCD in tandem on dual head and then use the CRT for gaming. I have to admit that for refresh speed with a moving picture, nothing will be beating cheap old CRT's anytime soon.

Anyhow, I'm re-financing my home in the next 4 weeks which is going to free up a considerable amount of cash, so one way or another one of these puppies is going to be sitting on my desk.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Pulled the trigger on the LCD-1850X from NEC!!!

The clincher for me was discovering that it has the ability to preserve aspect ratios when you run lower resolutions.. this IMO is a GREAT feature. I would rather run in a smaller window and preserve the aspect ratio than stretch it out.

I was really tempted by the 2000FP Dell, but the extra $500 and the very large bezel ended up sinking it. The 16X12 rez and 4:3 aspect ratio would have been nice though.

After I get it later this week I will report back to folks how it is.

 

[TSDible]

Let us know how it turns out. Where did you get it? Price?

 

[GarthMan]

Hi,

I own an NEC 1850X - actually I'm typing this msg with it now

When shopping for LCD's, I actually bought the Compaq TFT8030 (20ms) and NEC 1850X (29ms). The Compaq had slightly better color saturation, but the NEC seemed to handle darker shades better. The clincher was the Compaq made an electrical hum that I found too distracting; hence I went with the NEC.

I'm happy to say that I've seen ghosting on cheaper LCD's (even the NEC 1830) and the NEC 1850X does NOT have this problem (neither did the Compaq for that matter). Today's "fast" panels do very well in that regard. I highly recommend using the DVI connector for the NEC - it really helps bringing the darker shades out. (The Compaq display looked identical regardless if using Analog or DVI).

Games play very well on the 1850X (i.e. Jedi Outcast, Bridge Commander, MOHAA). The only nitpick I have is that textures loose "focus" while in fast motion; for example, when playing Jedi Outcast you can run quickly by a wall. The textures on the wall are fuzzy while you are moving (no ghosting or after images - just a blurring of the textures). I've compared this to my NEC FE950+ CRT and all textures keep their clarity in motion. Some people like this (the claim is that the resulting "blur" is more realistic) - I found it gave me a bit of a headache during extended period since I'm so used to CRT's. For me, this is only a problem when playing Q3A type games (less motion intensive games like Bridge Commander and Dungeon Siege play much better on the LCD.

Hope that helps!

Note: pcmag actually gave the NEC1850X a high grade on image quality. It got a ding for a clumsy UI and a high price (which made the overall review average). You can find them inexpensive if you look on pricewatch.

 

[gunf1ghter]

I got mine for $933 from Dell.com with free next day shipping and 10% off and $25 off coupons (the coupons might expire tonight, not sure).

 

[gunf1ghter]

Garth,

thanks much for the info. I think I might know what your talking about with motion blur. I could see it at a LAN party on someone's KDS RAD-5... I think I will find it tolerable. If not, dual head with my CRT will hopefully be the answer.

BTW, "inexpensive" is relative I guess... $1000 is still a lot of dough for some folks.

 

[gunf1ghter]

see edit at top, review of 1850X written.

 

[BMW330ci]

I have written a review at ARS Technica that details the 1850X that I ordered.

Ars Technica Write up by me on the NEC 1850X


Thanks for that excellent write up! Seems like a good buy since you tolerated the motion blur. Now, how does it look while scrolling vertically up/down on a webpage? Notice any ghosting with the text?

I may purchase this too now! =)

 

[TSDible]

So Gun...

Are you going to stick with this one? It looks impressive!

I'm waiting until the last possible moment before I move to order one of these.

 

[gunf1ghter]

TSdibble
yeah, this one is the keeper, can't ask for much more till pixel speeds get down to the 10ms range!


BMW330CI
There is no ghosting when scrolling text on webpages!

 

[BMW330ci]

<< TSdibble
yeah, this one is the keeper, can't ask for much more till pixel speeds get down to the 10ms range!


BMW330CI
There is no ghosting when scrolling text on webpages! >>



Very sweet =)

 

[gunf1ghter]

yes, after playing with it some more last night, I'm super impressed!