Nebraska gets a free pass for voting for health care

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
GOP Leader McConnell Releases Statement on Historic Mistake

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell made the following statement following the tragic partisan vote in the US Senate at 1:00 AM today.
Republican.Senate.gov has more on this historic power grab.
“Tonight marks the culmination of a long national debate. Passions have run high. And, that’s appropriate because the bill we are voting on tonight will impact the life of every American. It will shape the future of our country. It will determine whether our children can afford the nation they inherit. It is one of the most consequential votes any of us will ever take. And none of us take it lightly.

“But make no mistake: if the people who wrote this bill were proud of it, they wouldn’t be forcing this vote in the dead of night.

“Here are just some of the deals we’ve noticed:

“$100 million for an unnamed health care facility at an unnamed university somewhere in the United States — the bill doesn’t say where — and no one will even step forward to claim it.

“ One state out of 50 gets to expand Medicaid at no cost to itself — while taxpayers in the other 49 states pick up the tab.
“The same Senator who cut that deal secured another one that benefits a single insurance company – just one insurance company – based in his state.

“Do the supporters of this bill know all this? Do they think it’s a fair deal for their states, for the rest of the country?

“The fact is, a year after this debate started few people could have imagined that this is how it would end — with a couple of cheap deals and a rushed vote at one o’clock in the morning. But that’s where we are.

“And Americans are wondering tonight: How did this happen?

“So I’d like to take a moment to explain to the American people how we got here, to explain what happened — and what’s happening now.

“Everyone in this chamber agrees we need health care reform. The question is how?

“Some of us have taken the view that the American people want us to tackle the cost issue, and we’ve proposed targeted steps to do it. Our friends on the other side have taken the opposite approach.

“And the result has been just what you’d expect.
“The final product is a mess — and so is the process that’s brought us here to vote on a bill that the American people overwhelmingly oppose.

“Any challenge of this size and scope has always been dealt with on a bipartisan basis. The senior Senator from Maine made that point at the outset of the debate, and reminded us all how these things have been handled throughout history..

“The Social Security Act of 1935 was approved by all but six members of the Senate. The Medicare and Medicaid Acts of 1965 were approved by all but 21. All but eight senators voted for the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.

“Americans believe that on issues of this importance, one party should never be allowed to force its will on the other half of the nation. The proponents of this bill felt differently.

“In a departure from history, Democrat leaders put together a bill so heavy with tax hikes, Medicare cuts and government intrusion, that, in the end their biggest problem wasn’t convincing Republicans to support it, it was convincing the Democrats.

“In the end, the price of passing this bill wasn’t achieving the reforms Americans were promised.

“It was a blind call to make history, even if it was a historical mistake — which is exactly what this bill will be if it’s passed. Because, in the end, this debate isn’t about differences between two parties, it’s about a $2.3 trillion dollar, 2,733-page health care reform bill that does not reform health care and, in fact, makes its price go up.

I for one, have felt that there would be a price to pay for what is arguably an act of treason. But I'm unsure of that now. Something is brewing in DC. Something big. Something that will catch us all by surprise. I don't know what it's going to be, but I'm nearly certain that it will happen.

For 60 Senators to buck the will of the people to this degree is, I believe, unprecedented. There is a reason they are willing to go to this extreme.

What that reason is, will show itself before the elections this fall. If those elections are even held.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
GOP Leader McConnell Releases Statement on Historic Mistake



I for one, have felt that there would be a price to pay for what is arguably an act of treason. But I'm unsure of that now. Something is brewing in DC. Something big. Something that will catch us all by surprise. I don't know what it's going to be, but I'm nearly certain that it will happen.

For 60 Senators to buck the will of the people to this degree is, I believe, unprecedented. There is a reason they are willing to go to this extreme.

What that reason is, will show itself before the elections this fall. If those elections are even held.

AHAHAHA. The paranoid delusional hour, hosting random dude from the internet!

The will of 40 million americans is to have insurance. The will of 100s of millions of others is not to be droped from coverage, have rates hiked without provocation, and to be denied every ailment known to man by "pre-existing conditions". This has been shown in survey after survey.

The middle of the night? THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 8+ MONTHS NOW! This is not some quick legislation... it was stopped 14 years ago and now, after 8 + months of debate and republicans unwilling to deal whatsoever in any reform of healthcare, has to finally go to a vote...

Deadline in August. Vote actually done last week of the year and they cry RUSHED!?

Do you even read what you write?

You and your disingenuous ilk make me want to throw up.

Don't worry, your 800 billion dollar empire building bill gets passed without an eye blink... but 100 billion a year over 8 months of time and 75 years in the making.. THAT is rushed!
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
GOP Leader McConnell Releases Statement on Historic Mistake



I for one, have felt that there would be a price to pay for what is arguably an act of treason. But I'm unsure of that now. Something is brewing in DC. Something big. Something that will catch us all by surprise. I don't know what it's going to be, but I'm nearly certain that it will happen.

For 60 Senators to buck the will of the people to this degree is, I believe, unprecedented. There is a reason they are willing to go to this extreme.

What that reason is, will show itself before the elections this fall. If those elections are even held.
I wrote it in my letter. I toned down my original language a bit to give the senators the benefit of the doubt, but there is no question in my mind that this bill is a front for making private insurance effectively illegal in the relatively near term. After this period, the government will step in and save us all from the crisis which it created: skyrocketing premiums, which are the inevitable result of the inability of private companies to manage their own risk assessments. This is the seemingly most innocuous portion of the bill, yet is really the most sinister.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Gotta love the Republican hypocrites.

'If the sponsors were proud, they wouldn't need to have this vote at 1:00 AM'.

Put aside the reason for that vote - how the members have been getting through the process for debate, *blocked abd delayed by Republicans every way they can, including things like requirnig Bernie Sanders' amendment to be read alod for a 12 hour delay*, so that this was simply the reult of 'long hours' trying to get a vote done before Christmas so the final bill can be before the State of the Union.

Instead, note how the Republicans violate their own stadfard far worse when you look at how they passed Medicare Part D's big pharma giveaway - they LOST THE VOTE and then just ignored the rules, reportedly for the first time in history just refusing to follow the rules and end the vote and keepng it open for hour after hour all night while the leaders walked te floor threatening and bribing their members who voted no until about 6 AM when they finally had the votes coerced.

What shameless dishonest hypocrisy.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
According to who? Not any reputable poll.

Sixty-eight percent (68%) of those in the president’s party favor it according to Rasmussen.. considering the Democrats are now the majority in power, I think this represents the people.

A new poll suggests that voters are not pleased by the idea of health insurance mandates without a public option or a Medicare expansion.

Conducted by Research 2000 for the Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC) and Democracy for America (DFA), the survey finds only 33 percent of likely voters favor a health care bill that does not include a public health insurance option and does not expand Medicare, but does require all Americans to get health insurance. Slightly more Democrats -- 37 percent -- favor the idea, while only 30 percent of Republicans and 31 percent of independents do.

Meanwhile, if the public option and Medicare buy-in are added, 58 percent of people support the idea. The number of Republican supporters drops to 22 percent, but independent support rises to 57 percent and Democratic support to a whopping 88 percent.

"This poll shows voters in full-blown revolt against the Senate bill," said PCCC co-founder Stephanie Taylor. "Only one-third of voters support mandates without a public option, while nearly two-thirds want the public option and Medicare expansion. This will be a disaster of epic proportions for Democrats in 2010 if it's not fixed -- fast."

Sure looks like people want reform, just not the weak ass reform forced on the core democrats by jackasses like Lieberman and the entire obstructionist only GOP.

It is very easy to erode the support of the people by dragging things on and by using fear tactics over time. That is why the republicans keep delaying.. the more delay, the less the public likes.. that is why hacks like you and the other paid shills here have to keep screaming RUSHED! even after 8 months of debate and 0 participation by the republicans.

It is very easy to get people to fear change. You don't need to do anything to make peopel fear change. They feared removing slavery, creating unions, giving women the right to vote, allowing inter-racial marriage, de-segregation, and the list goes on forever. You and your ilk will always be on the wrong side of history. Fear and ignorance only leads you so far.

Compare the polls now to the polls done then about all those issues.

They were all "subverting the will of the people," right? RIGHT!?
 
Last edited:

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I wrote it in my letter. I toned down my original language a bit to give the senators the benefit of the doubt, but there is no question in my mind that this bill is a front for making private insurance effectively illegal in the relatively near term. After this period, the government will step in and save us all from the crisis which it created: skyrocketing premiums, which are the inevitable result of the inability of private companies to manage their own risk assessments. This is the seemingly most innocuous portion of the bill, yet is really the most sinister.

The liberals know that America at the moment doesn't want single payer, but if they can bankrupt the health insurance companies and drive up premiums (and they can) then a majority will eventually accept that we "have to" establish a government monopoly on health care. The liberals can then argue that they had no choice but to implement it. This is merely continuing Saul Alinsky's work of destroying the nation to gain a mandate to reform it.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
The liberals know that America at the moment doesn't want single payer, but if they can bankrupt the health insurance companies and drive up premiums (and they can) then a majority will eventually accept that we "have to" establish a government monopoly on health care. The liberals can then argue that they had no choice but to implement it. This is merely continuing Saul Alinsky's work of destroying the nation to gain a mandate to reform it.

Liberal conspiracy theory. Forgot this was a continuation of the paranoid delusional hour headed by the corporation whoring republicans!

Btw, according to Rasmussen, Sixty-two percent (62%) of Democrats favor a single-payer system.

Here is a list of polls saying people support single payer-

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

uly 2009 Kaiser Health Tracking Poll

Do you favor or oppose, "Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all?"
Favor 58%, Oppose 38%, NA/DK 3%

Link
July
2009 Time Magazine Would you favor or oppose a program that creates a national single-payer plan similar to Medicare for all, in which the government would provide healthcare insurance to all Americans?
Favor 49%, Oppose 46%, NA/DK 5%

Link

Feb.
2009
Grove Insight Opinion Research "When given a choice of the current system or one "like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers," voters overwhelmingly chose the latter. A solid majority (59%) say they would prefer a national health insurance program that covers everyone, over the current system of private insurance offered to most through their emloyer."
Link

Feb.
2009
New York Times/CBS News Poll Americans are more likely today to embrace the idea of the government providing health insurance than they were 30 years ago. 59% say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems.
 
Last edited:

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Liberal conspiracy theory. Forgot this was a continuation of the paranoid delusional hour headed by the corporation whoring republicans!
How is what I said a conspiracy? Can you explain how any insurance company will be able to break even, let alone turn a profit, under the conditions of this bill?
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Nov. 2008 Ballot initiative question in Massachusetts, “Should the representative from this district be instructed to support legislation creating a cost-effective single payer health insurance system that is available to all residents, and oppose laws penalizing those who fail to obtain health insurance?” "....local ballot initiatives supporting single payer and opposing individual mandates passed by landslide margins in all ten legislative districts where they appeared. With almost all precincts tallied, roughly 73 percent of 181,000 voters in the ten districts voted YES...."
Link
Apr. 2008 Quinnipiac Poll in PA, FL, OH

9. Do you think it's the government's responsibility to make sure that everyone in the United States has adequate health-care, or don't you think so?
In Pennsylvania; Yes 65%, No 31%, NA/DK 4%

Link
Apr. 2008 Annals of Internal Medicine, Study of Physician Support of National Health Insurance. (Includes a comparison of 2002 and 2007 surveys.) "...59 percent of them 'support government legislation to establish national health insurance,' while 32 percent oppose it and 9 percent are neutral."
Link

Dec.
2007
AP - Yahoo News Poll

Do you consider yourself a supporter of a single-payer health care system, that is a national health plan financed by taxpayers in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan, or not?
Yes 54%, No 44%, Refused / Not Answered 2%

Link
Dec. 2007 AP - Yahoo Poll

14. "Which comes closest to your view?
34% - The United States should continue the current health insurance system in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance
65% - The United States should adopt a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers
2% - Refused / Not Answered"

Link
Dec. 2007 New Hampshire Medical Society, Survey of New Hampshire Physicians "Two thirds of New Hampshire physicians, including 81% of primary care clinicians, indicated they “would favor a simplified payor system in which public funds, collected through taxes, were used to pay directly for services to meet the basic healthcare needs of all citizens.”
Link
May 2007 CNN/Opinion Research Poll

30. Do you think the government should provide a national health insurance program for all Americans, even if this would require higher taxes?
64% - Yes,
35% - No,
2% - No opinion

Link
Feb. 2007 New York Times/CBS News Poll

27. Do you think the federal government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans, or isn't this the responsibility of the federal government?
64% - Guarantee
27% - Not responsibility
9% - DK/NA

30. If you had to choose, which do you think is more important for the country to do right now, maintain the tax cuts enacted in recent years or make sure all Americans have access to health care?
18% - Cutting taxes
76% - Access to health insurance
1% - Neither
2% - Both
4% - DK/NA

Link
Feb. 2007 Minnesota Medicine Magazine, Poll of Minnesota Physicians "Of 390 physicians, 64% favored a single-payer system, 25% HSAs, and 12% managed care. The majority of physicians (86%) also agreed that it is the responsibility of society, through the government, to ensure that everyone has access to good medical care."
Link
Oct. 2005 The Harris Poll

“Please indicate whether you support or oppose the policy.”
“Universal health insurance”
75% - Strongly/Somewhat Favor
17% - Strongly/Somewhat Oppose

Link
Nov. 2004 Kaiser Family Foundation
Health Poll Report Public Opinion of "Consumer-Driven" Plans
Link
Oct. 2003 Washington Post/ABC News Poll

49. Which would you prefer – (the current health insurance system in the United States, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance); or (a universal health insurance program, in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers?)
62 % Universal
33% Current
6% No opinion
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
How is what I said a conspiracy? Can you explain how any insurance company will be able to break even, let alone turn a profit, under the conditions of this bill?

Absolutely. They are raking in the dough.. and that is only what is considered-"profits." Funny how every other country in the world could give healthcare to everyone at half the price and we can't... hmm..

Sorry, but if they have to lose some profits and use the money to save instead of kill people... I feel no sorrow for them. They still get to keep their multimillion dollar salaries.


"Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, while consumers paid more for less coverage. One of the major reasons, according to a new study, is the growing lack of competition in the private health insurance industry that has led to near monopoly conditions in many markets."

http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/27/h...oar-as-industry-mergers-create-near-monopoly/



Take a look at a recent report "Insuring Health or Ensuring Profit?; A look at the Financial Gains of Washington's Health Insurers." According to the report, the big three carriers in Washington, Regence BlueShield, Premera Blue Cross and Group Health Cooperative saw profits increase from $11 million in 2002 to $243 million in 2003 and $431 million in 2006. Their cash surplus went from $833 million in 2002 to $2.2 billion (with a "B") in 2006. Interestingly enough they did it while covering less people. Over 2.37 million people were covered by the three in 2002 compared to 1.9 million in 2006.

http://vancouver.injuryboard.com/mi...h-insurance-profits-soar.aspx?googleid=230780



Potter, who spent 15 years at CIGNA, said health plans have a financial incentive to cancel the policies of their most costly members and have implemented strategies to do so. “They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy,” he testified. And canceling policies for even a small number of such members can have “a big effect” on the bottom line, he added. “Where is the logic and the humanity of having pre-existing conditions not covered in our society?” Potter asked. He noted that his testimony wasn’t aimed at CIGNA specifically, but rather at an industry that he said is “taking this country in the wrong direction.”

http://www.aishealth.com/Bnow/hbd070909.html

""They confuse their customers and dump the sick — all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," said Wendell Potter, who retired as CIGNA's vice president of corporate communications last year. He spent nearly 15 years at the company and four years at Humana."

"Potter, for instance, recalled a trip on a corporate jet from Philadelphia, where CIGNA is headquartered, to Connecticut, where the company's health insurance business is based in Bloomfield. During the flight, he was served lunch on gold-rimmed china with a gold-plated knife and fork.

"I realized for the first time that someone's insurance premiums were paying for me to travel in such luxury," he said on his blog."

"He condemned insurers' efforts to get rid of unprofitable customers, sell policies that can mislead consumers and offer very limited coverage, and pay out as small a portion of premiums as possible for claims in order to boost profits and please Wall Street."

"Potter described in written testimony how insurers use "purging" — unrealistic rate increases — to drive off less profitable employers. Citing a USA Today report, he recalled how CIGNA boosted rates in 2006 for the Entertainment Industry Group Insurance Trust so much that for some family plans, premiums would have topped $44,000 a year."

"CIGNA, responding to Potter's testimony, said Wednesday, "Although we respect that there are different opinions on the solutions, we strongly disagree with the suggestion that, motivated by profits, the insurance industry has deliberately attempted to confuse or unfairly treat covered individuals.""

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-cigna-potter.artjun25,0,4107201.story


"Among the other testimony heard by the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation was that of Robin Beaton. It reflected some of the insurance company tactics condemned by Potter.

It was a nightmare scenario. The day before she was scheduled to undergo a double mastectomy for invasive breast cancer, Robin Beaton's health insurance company informed her that she was "red flagged" and they wouldn't pay for her surgery. The hospital wanted a $30,000 deposit before they would move forward. Beaton had no choice but to forgo the life-saving surgery.

Beaton had dutifully signed up for individual insurance when she retired from nursing to start a small business. She had never missed a payment, but that didn't matter. Blue Cross cited two earlier, unrelated conditions that she hadn't reported to them when signing up — acne and a fast beating heart — and rescinded her policy.

Beaton pleaded with the company and had her doctors write letters on her behalf to no avail. It was not until Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) personally called Blue Cross that her policy was reinstated and she could undergo surgery. In that year, Beaton's tumor doubled in size, leading to further complications necessitating the removal of her lymph glands as well."


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Sixty-eight percent (68%) of those in the president’s party favor it according to Rasmussen.. considering the Democrats are now the majority in power, I think this represents the people.

Typical political mindset. Saying someone in a political party supports something does not mean that the people support it. Politicians say anything to get elected, once elected they can do whatever they like till the next vote, as we are witnessing with health care.

Look at the polls of people not politicians.

CNN: “Do You Generally Favor [The Senate Health Care Bill] Or Generally Oppose It? … Favor 36% Oppose 61%.”
NBC NEWS-WALL STREET JOURNAL POLL: “Just 32 Percent Say It's A Good Idea, Versus 47 Percent Who Say It's A Bad Idea.”
WASHINGTON POST-ABC NEWS POLL: “In The Poll Conducted This Month, 51 Percent Say They Oppose The Proposed Changes To The System; 44 Percent Approve Of Them.

AP-GFK POLL: “Although The National Debate Over Health Care Has Been Heated, There Was Little To No Change From November In The Public's Attitudes On The Proposals Being Discussed — 44 Percent Oppose Them While 36 Percent Support Them. And only half the country approves of Obama's handling of the issue.”

RASMUSSEN: “Fifty-Six Percent (56%) Of U.S. Voters Now Oppose The Health Care Plan Proposed By President Obama And Congressional Democrats. That’s the highest level of opposition found - reached three times before - in six months of polling. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 40% of voters favor the health care plan. Perhaps more significantly, 46% now Strongly Oppose the plan, compared to 19% who Strongly Favor it.” (“Health Care Reform,” Rasmussen Reports, 12/14/09)


If it is such a good idea let everyone read it and vote after the holidays. No they will not do that because they know that if people get time to read it and talk to the people they voted for it will not pass. How is that the peoples will ?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
The latest insanity from Grayson is that he wrote to Holder demanding that a Republican activist who started a web site called "mycongressmanisnuts.com" raising money for Grayson's Republican challenger be investigated and imprisoned for five years.

The story: http://www.politico.com/blogs/scorecard/1209/Grayson_wants_to_imprison_critic.html?showall

The letter: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_grayson-holder-complaint-121609-0013.html

Yeah, let's run out and get us a big bag o' them taters.

You dishonestly summarized the issue. Your post is like saying the government tried to put OJ in jail for being black.

I'm stiull trying to find the full text of his letter that will display on this PS3 browser, but it's clear his issue is lies by the web site founder, not the reason you claim, just being an opposition fundraising website.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
lol, wat?

You believe that the states that wanted to keep the following should be used as representative of the future of America?:

Slavery
No women voting
No unions
No desegregation
No inter-racial marriage
No equal rights
No Civil rights

I followed up with plenty of polls including everyone, including the hicks.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Absolutely. They are raking in the dough.. and that is only what is considered-"profits." Funny how every other country in the world could give healthcare to everyone at half the price and we can't... hmm..

Sorry, but if they have to lose some profits and use the money to save instead of kill people... I feel no sorrow for them. They still get to keep their multimillion dollar salaries.
Read my question and respond to it: can you explain how any insurance company will be able to break even, let alone turn a profit, under the conditions of this bill? Your previous response is that they shouldn't, effectively stating that the goal of this bill is to fulfill my previous prediction, which you called a "conspiracy theory."
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Typical political mindset. Saying someone in a political party supports something does not mean that the people support it. Politicians say anything to get elected, once elected they can do whatever they like till the next vote, as we are witnessing with health care.

Look at the polls of people not politicians.




If it is such a good idea let everyone read it and vote after the holidays. No they will not do that because they know that if people get time to read it and talk to the people they voted for it will not pass. How is that the peoples will ?

I followed by posting 9 more polls.

Everyone has had since July to read all iterations. That is the job of a Senator. To read bills.

But that isn't what you are getting at. The more time delayed, the more fear and "death panel" lies are spread, the more the people begin to fear.

75 years, 3 congressional sessions throughout those years, and 8 months of bargaining is plenty of time. Stop with the bullshit.
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,953
0
0
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

tests.png
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Read my question and respond to it: can you explain how any insurance company will be able to break even, let alone turn a profit, under the conditions of this bill? Your previous response is that they shouldn't, effectively stating that the goal of this bill is to fulfill my previous prediction, which you called a "conspiracy theory."

Go read the data and sources I listed. They are increasing their profits by 1000% in 5 years while covering less people and deliberately dropping coverage for profit.

Now they will not be allowed to get away with it. It will now be what every other first world country does. Take away the multimillion dollar pay and 1000% increase in profits over 5 years.. that should help them "survive"

Besides, it is your job to prove that the current bill will not allow them to give multimillion dollar executive salaries(not counted in profits) and will not break even. It is not my job to disprove a claim. It is YOUR job to actually PROVE the claim FIRST.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I dont tolerate bribery, even if it does benefit me. Obama AND Nelson should be jailed for bribery, extortion and a few other charges.

Welcome to Chicago politics on a national scale. This whole story should sicken anyone who hears it.

LOL, they way politics has always been practiced is now the first time this has ever happened because Obama brought Chicago corruption to Washington.

Let's test YOUR cosistency:

Do you call for jailing every arms company employee who has been involved in spreading out the manufacture of weapon systems across 50 or many states to bribe the congressmen to vote for it?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Go read the data and sources I listed. They are increasing their profits by 1000% in 5 years while covering less people and deliberately dropping coverage for profit.

Now they will not be allowed to get away with it. It will now be what every other first world country does. Take away the multimillion dollar pay and 1000% increase in profits over 5 years.. that should help them "survive"

Besides, it is your job to prove that the current bill will not allow them to give multimillion dollar executive salaries(not counted in profits) and will not break even. It is not my job to disprove a claim. It is YOUR job to actually PROVE the claim FIRST.
So your "conspiracy theory" claim is simply an ad hominem which you threw out there despite knowing with absolute certainty that the "theory" was actually correct? Just checking. :ninja:
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
126
Should have used reconciliation to pass a better bill instead of compromising.
This compromise is like mixing chocolate with manure.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
I followed by posting 9 more polls.

Everyone has had since July to read all iterations. That is the job of a Senator. To read bills.

The senators themselves didn't even get a copy till 30 minutes before the vote . Senators don't read bills anymore, haven't you heard them say they don't have time over and over ?


But that isn't what you are getting at. The more time delayed, the more fear and "death panel" lies are spread, the more the people begin to fear.

Anything that is good and true can withstand criticism. If there is nothing to hide publish the bill . If someone claims something not true they can point to where it says it isn't in the bill. What you are saying is that taxpayers are stupid they can't decide for themselves, so someone else needs to.



75 years, 3 congressional sessions throughout those years, and 8 months of bargaining is plenty of time. Stop with the bullshit.

So PUBLISH the bill .