Nearly Half of PCs Will Utilize Multi-GPU Tech in 2012 ? JPR

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: aka1nas
Your interpretation doesn't even really match the definition of homogeneous multi-core. I think you're equating core with die. By your definition, only a multiple die chip such as a Pentium D would be multi-core.

No I don't equate the core with the die.

I just said that in my definition of the word "multi core", the cores are "of the same quality" or "co-equal".

I didn't imply die at all!
Where in my previous reply I equated the term "core" with the term "die"?

Don't put words in my mouth (although you said that it's what you think I said)

So, I think that my position is clear!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Multi comes from multus, which means many.

Core is a bit more tricky as depending on the useage the word has several different origins, corpus being the oldest which deals with the heart or center.

You see the intellect meaning of the words exist way before and will exist way after some guy in 20th century market the notion the way he likes or understand.

You are very right indeed, my closest friend has a degree in linguistics and socio linguistics, nights spent drinking I have been served up rather lengthy and in depth analysis of exactly that topic. In this particular case however, the word hasn't evolved.

So I guess your definition clicks with the term "heterogeneous multi-core systems" and mine clicks with the term "homogeneous multi-core systems

We are discussing a noun, not an adjective. I have not said that what you claim is multi core is not, what I have repeatedly stated is that you are excluding numerous offerings that are multi core improperly.

But I guess I am to stupid to understand what the word 'multicore' means!

While it appears most of your research was suspect at best, particularly relating to how the word was added to English, at least you came across the Wiki entry that can help you gain a bit of insight. Sadly, I linked that article several posts ago which if you would have clicked it in the first place, we could have avoided this sidebar

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Multi comes from multus, which means many.

Core is a bit more tricky as depending on the useage the word has several different origins, corpus being the oldest which deals with the heart or center.

I agree that this is one valid definition of the term, I suppose you don't imply that i said something different from this.
(For the Greek term "core" ,the greek word is complex from other 2 words (like the latin term is also) that can show more clearly than latin the origin of the notion that it represents, Greek is way older than the Latin Language, but anyway this is not point here)

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
You are very right indeed, my closest friend has a degree in linguistics and socio linguistics, nights spent drinking I have been served up rather lengthy and in depth analysis of exactly that topic. In this particular case however, the word hasn't evolved.

Thanks.
Then for this point we agree.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I have not said that what you claim is multi core is not, what I have repeatedly stated is that you are excluding numerous offerings that are multi core improperly.

Sorry then I misunderstood, I had the feeling that this is what you meant.
So if you just meant that I excluded some offerings that click with the "heterogeneous core design" then you are correct.
I said it myself in my previous reply also.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
While it appears most of your research was suspect at best, particularly relating to how the word was added to English,

I never implied something about how the word was added to English and I have done no research about it, like I care, I just implied that the meaning of a word can change in time becauce of the way people use this word in each particular era and that maybe the people that defined the term in this era changed the original notion. Like I said in my previous reply this didn't happen pointing to the Wikipedia staff.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
at least you came across the Wiki entry that can help you gain a bit of insight. Sadly, I linked that article several posts ago which if you would have clicked it in the first place, we could have avoided this sidebar

Yes I should, It took me more time answering to you than to check in Wikipedia what is the current notion in the Tech. World for the term "multi core".

 

[exar333]

Maybe AMD/Nvidia will make a multi-GPU board that doesn't use a SLI/CF bridge chip embedded? This would (seemingly) eliminate the micro-stutter and make the multi-GPU more like replacing a single-core CPU with a dual core, seamless.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Maybe AMD/Nvidia will make a multi-GPU board that doesn't use a SLI/CF bridge chip embedded? This would (seemingly) eliminate the micro-stutter and make the multi-GPU more like replacing a single-core CPU with a dual core, seamless.

I'd imagine that we''ll get an API or driver model redesign at some point in the next few years for one or both IHVs to make multi-GPU support more seamless. I.E. the GPU will be a virtual device at the OS-level with X stream processors and the underlying hardware configuration of those stream processors will be abstracted away.

Microsoft tried to push through a lot of the required changes with Vista (i.e. gpu process scheduling and virtualized graphics memory), but Nvidia bitched too much and Microsoft backed off, IIRC.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Multi comes from multus, which means many.

Core is a bit more tricky as depending on the useage the word has several different origins, corpus being the oldest which deals with the heart or center.

I agree that this is one valid definition of the term, I suppose you don't imply that i said something different from this.
(For the Greek term "core" ,the greek word is complex from other 2 words (like the latin term is also) that can show more clearly than latin the origin of the notion that it represents, Greek is way older than the Latin Language, but anyway this is not point here)

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
You are very right indeed, my closest friend has a degree in linguistics and socio linguistics, nights spent drinking I have been served up rather lengthy and in depth analysis of exactly that topic. In this particular case however, the word hasn't evolved.

Thanks.
Then for this point we agree.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I have not said that what you claim is multi core is not, what I have repeatedly stated is that you are excluding numerous offerings that are multi core improperly.

Sorry then I misunderstood, I had the feeling that this is what you meant.
So if you just meant that I excluded some offerings that click with the "heterogeneous core design" then you are correct.
I said it myself in my previous reply also.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
While it appears most of your research was suspect at best, particularly relating to how the word was added to English,

I never implied something about how the word was added to English and I have done no research about it, like I care, I just implied that the meaning of a word can change in time becauce of the way people use this word in each particular era and that maybe the people that defined the term in this era changed the original notion. Like I said in my previous reply this didn't happen pointing to the Wikipedia staff.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
at least you came across the Wiki entry that can help you gain a bit of insight. Sadly, I linked that article several posts ago which if you would have clicked it in the first place, we could have avoided this sidebar

Yes I should, It took me more time answering to you than to check in Wikipedia what is the current notion in the Tech. World for the term "multi core".

If all it can do is vector maths, then it's just not a core, sorry. This means Cell is single core.

Love how much this thread has had CPU discussion in it, lol.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: aka1nas
Your interpretation doesn't even really match the definition of homogeneous multi-core. I think you're equating core with die. By your definition, only a multiple die chip such as a Pentium D would be multi-core.

No I don't equate the core with the die.

I just said that in my definition of the word "multi core", the cores are "of the same quality" or "co-equal".

I didn't imply die at all!
Where in my previous reply I equated the term "core" with the term "die"?

Don't put words in my mouth (although you said that it's what you think I said)

So, I think that my position is clear!

Please, would you define a GPU core?

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If all it can do is vector maths, then it's just not a core, sorry. This means Cell is single core.

Love how much this thread has had CPU discussion in it, lol.

Why are you answering to me?
BenSkywalker said that the Cell is multi core CPU.

And if you make the clarification that it is a "heterogeneous multi-core system" You can say that he is right!

About the text in bold ,Cell can of cource do much more than vector math, did you mean SPE instead of Cell? (although again in this case I think the SPEs can do more than vector maths, but I am not sure nor I care, if you are interested you can google it, I am sure you can find a lot informations in the net).

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Janooo
Please, would you define a GPU core?

a spartan definitions would be something like that:

GPU is a heterogeneous multi-core processing system that specialize in Graphics.

Of cource you can say that recently with the development of the GPGPU concept it can expand its processing in sectors other than Graphics.


If you need anything more complex you can google the term, I am sure you can find what you need.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: Janooo
Please, would you define a GPU core?

a spartan definitions would be something like that:

GPU is a heterogeneous multi-core processing system that specialize in Graphics.

Of cource you can say that recently with the development of the GPGPU concept it can expand its processing in sectors other than Graphics.


If you need anything more complex you can google the term, I am sure you can find what you need.

Why do you say "GPU is" when I asked for "GPU core is"?

 

[apoppin]

What IS this thread about?

Did Xbitlabs misunderstood and JPR meant multi-core GPU technology instead of multi-GPU technology such as ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI?

No, they did not

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: apoppin
What IS this thread about?

(It became) not exactly what I had in mind in the first place!

Originally posted by: apoppin

Did Xbitlabs misunderstood and JPR meant multi-core GPU technology instead of multi-GPU technology such as ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI?

No, they did not

I agree. JPR did. :laugh:

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Janooo
Why do you say "GPU is" when I asked for "GPU core is"?

You seem a lot demanding.
Are we arguing about something?
You only made a question in your previous reply.

Anyway, I missed the word core.

Well for this question I don't have a specific definition, mainly becauce I think it is posible for someone to be too subjective in the way he can break the GPU into cores accordingly with the way he sees it.

You can google it and find if there is a specific definition but I suspect it can lead to many definitions depending on the way you can look at it.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: Janooo
Why do you say "GPU is" when I asked for "GPU core is"?

You seem a lot demanding.
Are we arguing about something?
You only made a question in your previous reply.

Anyway, I missed the word core.

Well for this question I don't have a specific definition, mainly becauce I think it is posible for someone to be too subjective in the way he can break the GPU into cores accordingly with the way he sees it.

You can google it and find if there is a specific definition but I suspect it can lead to many definitions depending on the way you can look at it.

If you don't have a specific one then what definition did you use in the original post when you said: "JPR meant multi-core GPU technology"? If you don't know what core is then what is this thread about?

 

[BenSkywalker]

If all it can do is vector maths, then it's just not a core, sorry. This means Cell is single core.

Take one bubble at a time-

The SPEs have a reputation of being weird DSP type things which can only handle vector code. This is not true as they are also quite capable of handling scalar (read: normal) code. It?s better to use vector code however because processing 4 (or more) pieces of data at a time is obviously going to be faster.

Overview of Cell laymen should be able to easily understand. So you are flat out wrong that SPEs can only handle vector math, but even if that were the case, why on Earth would you think that meant it wasn't a multi core chip? I have already posted a link that explains that vector based DSP or not, it still would be multi core.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: apoppin
What IS this thread about?

(It became) not exactly what I had in mind in the first place!

Originally posted by: apoppin

Did Xbitlabs misunderstood and JPR meant multi-core GPU technology instead of multi-GPU technology such as ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI?

No, they did not

I agree. JPR did. :laugh:

No .. they did not
.. they mean what they say:

. . . there will be nearly half of PCs powered by multi-GPU technology, such as ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI, in 2012

now i think they are talking new PCs; not half the PC in the world will be upgraded to multiGPU

 

[phexac]

I strongly doubt that by 2012 most people will be using multi-gpu solutions. Main reason is that there will simply be no need to do so for anyone who does not game or have specific needs. Any decent GPU from today will be able to handle any OS needs in 2012. I did not read the article, but it either doesn't mean multi-gpu, or it's dead wrong.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

If all it can do is vector maths, then it's just not a core, sorry. This means Cell is single core.

Take one bubble at a time-

The SPEs have a reputation of being weird DSP type things which can only handle vector code. This is not true as they are also quite capable of handling scalar (read: normal) code. It?s better to use vector code however because processing 4 (or more) pieces of data at a time is obviously going to be faster.

Overview of Cell laymen should be able to easily understand. So you are flat out wrong that SPEs can only handle vector math, but even if that were the case, why on Earth would you think that meant it wasn't a multi core chip? I have already posted a link that explains that vector based DSP or not, it still would be multi core.

The SPEs have 0 memory management capability, yes? Or at least limited, I think it's the only thing they're really lacking from being a full cpu.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: Janooo
Why do you say "GPU is" when I asked for "GPU core is"?

You seem a lot demanding.
Are we arguing about something?
You only made a question in your previous reply.

Anyway, I missed the word core.

Well for this question I don't have a specific definition, mainly becauce I think it is posible for someone to be too subjective in the way he can break the GPU into cores accordingly with the way he sees it.

You can google it and find if there is a specific definition but I suspect it can lead to many definitions depending on the way you can look at it.

If you don't have a specific one then what definition did you use in the original post when you said: "JPR meant multi-core GPU technology"? If you don't know what core is then what is this thread about?

I din't say that, I said that I think that it can be too subjective to give a general rule regarding the definition of the term GPU core.

Regarding this specific topic's definition, you missed one of my early posts that I explained that I meant multi core in the sense of SGX543MP.

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=449

and not on the sense of ATI's HD4XXX or NV's GXXX series.

You got it now, don't you?

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: apoppin
What IS this thread about?

(It became) not exactly what I had in mind in the first place!

Originally posted by: apoppin

Did Xbitlabs misunderstood and JPR meant multi-core GPU technology instead of multi-GPU technology such as ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI?

No, they did not

I agree. JPR did. :laugh:

No .. they did not
.. they mean what they say:

. . . there will be nearly half of PCs powered by multi-GPU technology, such as ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI, in 2012

now i think they are talking new PCs; not half the PC in the world will be upgraded to multiGPU

Yes they are talking for new PCs and discrete GPU business.

Maybe the future will prove you right my friend, but like phexac pointed out it is highly unlikely that 50% of the new users will need a hardware solution like ATI CrossFire or Nvidia SLI technics.

Unless ATI & NV use in the future the label CrossFire & SLI as a software label for multi GPUs solutions that look like SGX543MP, then I really don't get JPR report.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: MODEL3
...

I din't say that, I said that I think that it can be too subjective to give a general rule regarding the definition of the term GPU core.

Regarding this specific topic's definition, you missed one of my early posts that I explained that I meant multi core in the sense of SGX543MP.

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=449

and not on the sense of ATI's HD4XXX or NV's GXXX series.

You got it now, don't you?

Do you consider one SGX543 as one core?

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Janooo

Originally posted by: MODEL3
...

I din't say that, I said that I think that it can be too subjective to give a general rule regarding the definition of the term GPU core.

Regarding this specific topic's definition, you missed one of my early posts that I explained that I meant multi core in the sense of SGX543MP.

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=449

and not on the sense of ATI's HD4XXX or NV's GXXX series.

You got it now, don't you?

Do you consider one SGX543 as one core?

It's becoming boring, you know?

If you can't understand my previous answer, read it again (i gave you for the second time the link for SGX543MP tech.) or google!

If you disagree with my previous answer and you regard the architectures of ATI's HD4XXX and NV's GXXX series, the same (in the sense i implied) with the architecture of SGX543MP then O.K. I am not willing to do anything more, i am sorry.

Because it seems that all that you are doing is to arguing for the sake of argument, otherwise you would already had state where do you disagree with me in my previous answer!

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: MODEL3

Originally posted by: Janooo
...

Do you consider one SGX543 as one core?

It's becoming boring, you know?

If you can't understand my previous answer, read it again (i gave you for the second time the link for SGX543MP tech.) or google!

If you disagree with my previous answer and you regard the architectures of ATI's HD4XXX and NV's GXXX series, the same (in the sense i implied) with the architecture of SGX543MP then O.K. I am not willing to do anything more, i am sorry.

Because it seems that all that you are doing is to arguing for the sake of argument, otherwise you would already had state where do you disagree with me in my previous answer!

I am not arguing. I am trying to learn what chunk of silicon you consider as a GPU core. You pointed me to an article and it's still not clear to me what entity you call a GPU core.
One SGX543 has 4 pipelines. I just asked you if you consider 4 pipelines (one SGX543) as a GPU core.

If you can not define a GPU core then why do you claim and argue with Apoppin that somebody misunderstood and mixed up multi-GPU and multi-core GPU?

 

[BenSkywalker]

The SPEs have 0 memory management capability, yes? Or at least limited, I think it's the only thing they're really lacking from being a full cpu.

They have no automatic memory management, it is all handled via DMA by the programmer who has complete control over it. They have a lot less or a lot more memory management then a typical CPU depending on how you look at it.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Janooo
I am not arguing. I am trying to learn what chunk of silicon you consider as a GPU core...

If you can not define a GPU core then why do you claim...

Yea right, you are not arguing! Then why do you state that in the bold text, it doesn't seem to me that your intension is just to learn!

And then again you put words in mouth when it was clear what I told you:

Originally posted by: MODEL3
I din't say that, I said that I think that it can be too subjective to give a general rule regarding the definition of the term GPU core.

Regarding this specific topic's definition, you missed one of my early posts that I explained that I meant multi core in the sense of SGX543MP.

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=449

and not on the sense of ATI's HD4XXX or NV's GXXX series.

Originally posted by: Janooo
You pointed me to an article and it's still not clear to me what entity you call a GPU core.
One SGX543 has 4 pipelines. I just asked you if you consider 4 pipelines (one SGX543) as a GPU core.

The only clear thing to me is that you confuse words like core & pipeline.
One SGX543 GP-GPU is one core (the actual model configurations start from 2 cores (with SGXMP2) and end at 16 cores with (SGXMP16)
If you arguing with that you are not arguing with me you arguing with Imagination Technologies and this is not a good sign since you are at the learning stage!

I suppose your next question will be what is the difference in SGX543 GP-GPU between a pipeline and a core, google it!

Originally posted by: Janooo
...and argue with Apoppin that somebody misunderstood and mixed up multi-GPU and multi-core GPU?

You are feeling lonely and you need company or do you need support?
I think Apoppin understood very well my reply!