NC's voter ID law struck down by Appeals Court

[umbrella39]

This needs to be posted in every one of these but, but, but disingenuous confused party in power trying to take away the right to vote threads:

This implies that the net effect of such requirements is to impede voting by people easily discouraged from voting, most of whom probably lean Democratic.

There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burden.

- Reagan-appointed Judge Richard Posner

 

[Moonbeam]

A bigots bigotry is always masked from him or her by the good they see themselves attempting to achieve, good that appears to be good because a good exists, but in the case of the bigot is actually evil.

 

[brycejones]

But you see, voter ID laws are not racist. White legislators like black people just fine (so how can they be racist?); they just don't want them to vote.

They love minorities and older voters so much they don't want the. To be troubled by having to go to that pesky polling place on Election Day. They are just saving them a trip.

 

[DrPizza]

It occurred to me that I haven't got a clue when my driver's license expires. It's my only picture ID. Once upon a time, I had a picture ID for work, but the picture wore off many years ago. It's just a white piece of plastic. I *think* my driver's license is in my wallet - it was in my last wallet, and when my wife bought me a new wallet, she transferred everything from one to the other. I know where my two most common credit cards are in it, and that's all that ever comes out of it. I cannot recall the last time I needed ID for anything; it's been years.

 

[Moonbeam]

It occurred to me that I haven't got a clue when my driver's license expires. It's my only picture ID. Once upon a time, I had a picture ID for work, but the picture wore off many years ago. It's just a white piece of plastic. I *think* my driver's license is in my wallet - it was in my last wallet, and when my wife bought me a new wallet, she transferred everything from one to the other. I know where my two most common credit cards are in it, and that's all that ever comes out of it. I cannot recall the last time I needed ID for anything; it's been years.

Jesus, I have to show my drivers license on a regular basis, at the bank to withdraw or transfer cash, at Kaiser, every time I see a doctor or fill a prescription, when I buy something at Frys, etc. Where I don't have to show it is when I vote. I tell them who I am, where I live, and sign my name.

 

[Knowing]

North Carolina right?

http://www.wral.com/state-elections-officials-seek-tighter-security/13533579/

Strach said North Carolina's check found 765 registered North Carolina voters who appear to match registered voters in other states on their first names, last names, dates of birth and the final four digits of their Social Security numbers. Those voters appear to have voted in North Carolina in 2012 and also voted in another state in 2012.
...
The crosscheck also found 35,570 voters in North Carolina who voted in 2012 whose first names, last names and dates of birth match those of voters who voted in other states in 2012, but whose Social Security numbers were not matched.

"A lot of states don't provide last four SSN, or they don't have that information," Strach explained.

35,000 votes would have swung the election in 2008.

 

[Jhhnn]

North Carolina right?

http://www.wral.com/state-elections-officials-seek-tighter-security/13533579/



35,000 votes would have swung the election in 2008.

We get this bullshit every election cycle. Fear mongering bullshit before the election followed by death of the story for lack of facts afterwards. The notion that voter ID would have prevented it is also bullshit. Show us how it would. Start by showing how many of these were absentee votes.

 

[Knowing]

We get this bullshit every election cycle. Fear mongering bullshit before the election followed by death of the story for lack of facts afterwards. The notion that voter ID would have prevented it is also bullshit. Show us how it would. Start by showing how many of these were absentee votes.

You're welcome to write the NC election board, I don't have the information because it wasn't published.

IDs can be verified electronically, if a person has a state resident ID card in two States then they're likely breaking state law. If they use the state ID to vote in two states then they're definitely breaking the law. I really do not understand the resistance to being positively identified when you vote, given that an ID is required to cash checks, use a credit card, buy alcohol, rent a car, get on an airliner, etc.

 

[JSt0rm]

North Carolina right?

http://www.wral.com/state-elections-officials-seek-tighter-security/13533579/



35,000 votes would have swung the election in 2008.

 

[Knowing]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_North_Carolina,_2008


I googled it to make sure I hadn't forgotten basic arithmetic.
2 142 651 - 2 128 474 = 14 177

 

[Jhhnn]

You're welcome to write the NC election board, I don't have the information because it wasn't published.

IDs can be verified electronically, if a person has a state resident ID card in two States then they're likely breaking state law. If they use the state ID to vote in two states then they're definitely breaking the law. I really do not understand the resistance to being positively identified when you vote, given that an ID is required to cash checks, use a credit card, buy alcohol, rent a car, get on an airliner, etc.

Anybody with a lick of sense realizes that the NC law would prevent legitimate votes orders of magnitudes greater than the fraudulent votes they might prevent. That effort is aimed squarely at poor people, blacks numbering disproportionately among them.

I mean, uhh, WTF? Are you saying that the culture who lived by Jim Crow now have no idea what they're doing?

They know, and the coy denialists who back them know too. Lee Atwater laid it out 35 years ago-

https://www.thenation.com/article/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/

 

[Knowing]

I really need to know who these scores of people are who are capable of handling day to day business of life without identification.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I really need to know who these scores of people are who are capable of handling day to day business of life without identification.

You mean like the hundreds of thousands If not millions of seniors who don't drive and have no need for an ID for anything they do at this point in their lives? Who don't need to go open new bank accounts since the ones they have now they've had their entire lives? Who don't fly anywhere. Why would they need a current government issued photo ID?

 

[Knowing]

You mean like the hundreds of thousands If not millions of seniors who don't drive and have no need for an ID for anything they do at this point in their lives? Who don't need to go open new bank accounts since the ones they have now they've had their entire lives? Why would they need a current government issued photo ID?

Who probably don't vote in person, and since they don't drive probably don't vote in multiple states?

They'd still need it for checks, because if I'm waiting in line at the grocery store for someone to write a check it's probably an oldster.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Who probably don't vote in person, and since they don't drive probably don't vote in multiple states?

They'd still need it for checks, because if I'm waiting in line at the grocery store for someone to write a check it's probably an oldster.

Well you successfully refuted the point with your anecdote about checks and assumption that no elderly person votes in person. Oh, you didn't actually care about the real answer right?

 

[Knowing]

Well you successfully refuted the point with your anecdote about checks and assumption that no elderly person votes in person. Oh, you didn't actually care about the real answer right?

You were responding about people without ID. I specifically referenced an instance of an individual who must have ID to pass a check.

Your attempt at a gotcha has been noted.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

You were responding about people without ID. I specifically referenced an instance of an individual who must have ID to pass a check.

Your attempt at a gotcha has been noted.

No you asked how scores of people could get through day to day business without ID. Explain to me how the examples of non driving retirees doesn't answer that. There's millions of them out there.

 

[Knowing]

No you asked how scores of people could get through day to day business without ID. Explain to me how the examples of non driving retirees doesn't answer that. There's millions of them out there.

If they're collecting retirement they can afford an ID. They can spare the time too since otherwise they'd be biking to the bank to make cash transactions.

I don't think the Venn diagram of elderly retirees and dirt poor destitute PoC overlaps as much as you suggest.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

If they're collecting retirement they can afford an ID. They can spare the time too since otherwise they'd be biking to the bank to make cash transactions.

I don't think the Venn diagram of elderly retirees and dirt poor destitute PoC overlaps as much as you suggest.

Goal posts moved. You said you wanted to know who the scores were. Now it's they should just get one since they can probably afford it. Again, you weren't interested in the answer to your statement. Just own up to it.

 

[Knowing]

Goal posts moved. You said you wanted to know who the scores were. Now it's they should just get one since they can probably afford it. Again, you weren't interested in the answer to your statement. Just own up to it.

The obvious context being the disenfranchised dirt scratchers who would be burdened by a requirement to get ID.

I'm absolutely interested in an answer to my question that doesn't involve cash slinging geriatric century riders.

 

[Jhhnn]

I really need to know who these scores of people are who are capable of handling day to day business of life without identification.

Why? Other than to deny the reality that many such people obviously exist with a level of ID insufficient to gain voting rights in NC?

Those people aren't an abstraction. They're quite real and they're the people NC Republicans want to stop from voting.

 

[Knowing]

Why? Other than to deny the reality that many such people obviously exist with a level of ID insufficient to gain voting rights in NC?

Those people aren't an abstraction. They're quite real and they're the people NC Republicans want to stop from voting.

Who_are_they?

 

[Jhhnn]

Who_are_they?

From the link in the OP-

“The new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision” and “impose cures for problems that did not exist,” Judge Diana Gribbon Motz wrote for the panel. “Thus the asserted justifications cannot and do not conceal the State’s true motivation.”

The panel seemed to say it found the equivalent of a smoking gun. “Before enacting that law, the legislature requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices,” Motz wrote. “Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans.”

There's more, obviously. Maybe you should actually read it.

Let me repeat the question you ignored, just so everybody can see you didn't just miss it-

I mean, uhh, WTF? Are you saying that the culture who lived by Jim Crow now have no idea what they're doing?

 

[Meghan54]

Jesus, I have to show my drivers license on a regular basis, at the bank to withdraw or transfer cash, at Kaiser, every time I see a doctor or fill a prescription, when I buy something at Frys, etc. Where I don't have to show it is when I vote. I tell them who I am, where I live, and sign my name.

Damn...hate to live in your state. I've never had, or at least within the last two decades, to show ID to withdraw cash from the bank....just use my debit card. No ID required nor asked for. (Well, there was the time we withdrew $20K in cash, did have to show ID then, but that's not a normal transaction.) My MD doesn't ask for ID any time I go...only my $15 copay. I've bought from 2 different Fry's dozens upon dozens of times and have never had to show an ID, no matter the form of payment I chose to use.

I've not had to show an ID to pick up a prescription unless I was going to obtain pain killers. That's about the only time my ID's come out of my pocket within the last few decades.

 

[Meghan54]

It occurred to me that I haven't got a clue when my driver's license expires. It's my only picture ID. Once upon a time, I had a picture ID for work, but the picture wore off many years ago. It's just a white piece of plastic. I *think* my driver's license is in my wallet - it was in my last wallet, and when my wife bought me a new wallet, she transferred everything from one to the other. I know where my two most common credit cards are in it, and that's all that ever comes out of it. I cannot recall the last time I needed ID for anything; it's been years.

And, in all honesty, this is the way the vast majority of people who live in the U.S. live...ID is rarely required for anything.