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NCAA Football punishments

fustercluck

fustercluck

Diamond Member
I've been awake for too long and have come up with some thoughts/ramblings about the NCAA football committee (or whatever group is in charge of NCAA football)

So USC had to give up going to bowl games for two years because of Reggie Bush. Auburn on the other hand, is not getting punished at all for Cam Newton. *LINK*

Also, Miami has gone pretty much unpunished after decades of bending the rules, paying players and all sorts of other bad violations (Was that a Sports Illustrated scoop that uncovered all that some months back? I forgot...oh maybe it was Yahoo - *LINK*).

Then there's also Ohio State which got off damn near scott free as well. Tressel got canned but nothing happened to the school itself

From Wikipedia:
A 6 June 2011 story in Sports Illustrated reported that at least 28 players traded team memorabilia or used equipment for tattoos or other merchandise or services between 2002 and 2010. The report alleged that Tressel had violated NCAA bylaw 10.1 - unethical conduct, three times by not acting when told of the tattoo improprieties, by signing a statement saying he knew of no violations, and for withholding information on what was going on from university officials.[25]

On July 8, 2011, Ohio State University decided to vacate all victories from the 2010 football season as self-imposed punishment for major NCAA violations. [26] Former coach Jim Tressel will receive more than $52,000 from the university and won't have to pay a $250,000 fine for his involvement in the scandal. His status is also changed from 'Resigned' to "Retired" in keeping with his wishes to "remain a Buckeye for life." [27]
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So it seems to me that USC got punished worst of all because of a single player, while Auburn, Miami, and Ohio State all had multiple coaches and/or players breaking rules and all got a slap on the wrist or nothing at all.

Am I right? Wrong? Both?

Also, in USC's case, Reggie Bush and the Coach, Pete Carrol were both gone by the time the school was punished anyways, so they punished a bunch of players who had nothing to do with it. They asked for Bush's Heisman back but it doesn't sound like he's returned it yet. He shouldn't if he doesn't lawfully have to 😛

Anyways...yeah that was on my mind. Don't take any of it too seriously.
 
fustercluck said:
*snip*
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That's pretty much the general gist of things.

USC had Bush and OJ Mayo receive improper benefits. None of the USC coaches were implicated in knowing that the players received benefits. USC was slapped with a "Lack of Institutional Control" finding because Carroll and Floyd should have known.

OSU had seven players receive improper benefits. The head coach knew what was happening, failed to disclose it, and lied to the NCAA on several occasions. OSU was allowed to play everyone involved in the Sugar Bowl and then got relatively minor punishments because Tressel "acted by himself".

Auburn had one player whose father solicited improper benefits on his behalf from another school. The player was ineligible by NCAA standards for that solicitation. Auburn was cleared of any direct wrongdoing. The NCAA re-wrote the rule (i.e. made shit up) as they went and declared that since the player "had no knowledge" of his father's actions and the school he ended up at was the not school solicited the school would face no sanctions.

Scenario 1) 2 players, big benefits, no institutional knowledge, huge penalty
Scenario 2) 7 players, small benefits, institutional knowledge, lies, small penalty
Scenario 3) 1 player, no benefits but explicit violation, no institutional knowledge, no penalty

So, really, I guess the penalty is inverse to the severity of the offense.
 
the moral of this story is leave no hard evidence. 4 former auburn players admitted to taking money for playing and nothing will come of it because they've all shut up and no one is talking.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...011/03/auburn-players-money-hbo-real-sports/1

meanwhile boise state loses a bunch of scholarships because some incoming players slept on the couches of some current players
The 40 violations involved $4,934 in impermissible benefits, ranging from $2.34 to $417 for each individual.

Read more: http://voices.idahostatesman.com/20...mmer_housing_issue_created_more#ixzz1ahknXHuu
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holy shit TWO DOLLARS AND THIRTY FOUR CENTS!



the NCAA is a fucking joke. they wouldn't have had shit on miami had the feds not handed them the evidence.

anyway, auburn isn't clean until yahoo sports says they're clean. (wtf kind of world are we living in where a website circling the drain is doing better investigations than the assholes who are supposed to be running the show?)
 
ElFenix said:
the NCAA is a fucking joke. they wouldn't have had shit on miami had the feds not handed them the evidence.

anyway, auburn isn't clean until yahoo sports says they're clean. (wtf kind of world are we living in where a website circling the drain is doing better investigations than the assholes who are supposed to be running the show?)
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It seems to me that the biggest problem the NCAA faces is that it's a private entity. Considering that so many of the schools are public and pretty much all of them receive public money it would make so much more sense for the states or federal gov't to push the NCAA out and replace it with a gov't agency that has subpoena power.
 
Auburn_Not_Guilty.gif
 
sactoking said:
That's pretty much the general gist of things.

USC had Bush and OJ Mayo receive improper benefits. None of the USC coaches were implicated in knowing that the players received benefits. USC was slapped with a "Lack of Institutional Control" finding because Carroll and Floyd should have known.

OSU had seven players receive improper benefits. The head coach knew what was happening, failed to disclose it, and lied to the NCAA on several occasions. OSU was allowed to play everyone involved in the Sugar Bowl and then got relatively minor punishments because Tressel "acted by himself".

Auburn had one player whose father solicited improper benefits on his behalf from another school. The player was ineligible by NCAA standards for that solicitation. Auburn was cleared of any direct wrongdoing. The NCAA re-wrote the rule (i.e. made shit up) as they went and declared that since the player "had no knowledge" of his father's actions and the school he ended up at was the not school solicited the school would face no sanctions.

Scenario 1) 2 players, big benefits, no institutional knowledge, huge penalty
Scenario 2) 7 players, small benefits, institutional knowledge, lies, small penalty
Scenario 3) 1 player, no benefits but explicit violation, no institutional knowledge, no penalty

So, really, I guess the penalty is inverse to the severity of the offense.
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In scenario 1, I think the claimed lack of institutional knowledge was actually a big problem in that they should have known. i.e. the violations were pretty blatant and USC perhaps hadn't done 'due diligence' or whatever. Wasn't one of Bush family benefactors a visitor at USC practices? Too lazy to google.

I think scenario 3 might be a little different. I've heard Auburn might have known about Kenny Rogers and Cecil's shenanigans, but was above board with the NCAA about it, and clean in the recruitment of Cam. I don't really know if it's true though... Anyway. There might have been institutional knowledge of some sort, but the actual violation was by a players father and the booster of another school. Not the actual player (allegedly) or the school he signed with.

Some of this going back to Chizik's statement of (paraphrasing a little) that he was 'eligible at Auburn,' kind of implying he might not have been eligible if he'd signed with MSU. The only on the record money talk I've heard involved MSU and MSU boosters (Rogers is a former player and therefore a booster). If they'd ruled Cam ineligible for something his dad did, when no money changed hands (apparently - supposedly Cecil turned his bank records over to the NCAA), and no evidence the player knew about it... dunno, maybe that's a lawsuit they couldn't win?
 
let's talk about the cash involved here

OSU players got tattoo's and some bs cash

How much money do you think Bush and Mayo got - combined?

I'm going to guess that the cash either one of them got was more than all the OSU people, combined, X 10, received.

Miami has yet to hear formally from the NCAA - same with OSU - OSU needs to fire their AD, btw, his act during all of this has been ridiculous.

East Coast Bias? Go away.
 
Screw the NCAA. Who knows what logic they use in doling out their penalties because its all done behind closed doors with no transparency and no due process. Call me a homer (you'd be justified) but taking away games from a player without giving them the opportunity to present evidence is just BS <Story below>.

http://www.buckeyextra.com/content/stories/2011/10/11/attorney-players-evidence-ignored.html

At the end of the day the relative slap on the wrist is all about money. When the death penalty was given to SMU it literally destroyed their conference... it no longer exists. There is too much money at stake for a major program like USC, Miami, or OSU to receive anything close to a substantial penalty.

Plus, the football programs (and occassionally basketball) at these schools fund a plethora of other sports with "real" student athletes. I think the football program at OSU helps to fund approximately 30 other athletic teams. You penalize the cash cow and those other student athletes suffer.
 
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ElFenix said:
the moral of this story is leave no hard evidence. 4 former auburn players admitted to taking money for playing and nothing will come of it because they've all shut up and no one is talking.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...011/03/auburn-players-money-hbo-real-sports/1

meanwhile boise state loses a bunch of scholarships because some incoming players slept on the couches of some current players


holy shit TWO DOLLARS AND THIRTY FOUR CENTS!



the NCAA is a fucking joke. they wouldn't have had shit on miami had the feds not handed them the evidence.

anyway, auburn isn't clean until yahoo sports says they're clean. (wtf kind of world are we living in where a website circling the drain is doing better investigations than the assholes who are supposed to be running the show?)
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The running joke is Boise will be hit harder because of Auburn, hit worse because of tOSU, and given the death penalty because of Miami.

The NCAA as usual discredits themselves with this ruling. It will only be more discredited as they let OSU and Miami off scott free.
 
Why does the NCAA do such a good job with college basketball (at least seemingly, the NCAA Basketball tournament is arguably the best post-season in all of sports) and such a shitty job with Football (No playoff at all). Not just looking at post-season but overall, College Hoops seems much more solid. While the people who run NCAA football have been a joke for a long, long time.

Just take that LSU fake punt last week, the guy extends his arms for a tenth of a second before he gets in the endzone so the touchdown DOESN'T count, and they get put BACK 15 yards. Dumbest god damn penalty ever. Of course that wasn't even close to being the first ridiculous "celebration" penalty in NCAA football, it goes back a long time, and the penalties are completely bogus 90&#37; of the time.

I always like when Mike Wilbon refers to the NCAA as Barney Fife 😛
 
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fustercluck said:
Just take that LSU fake punt last week, the guy extends his arms for a tenth of a second before he gets in the endzone so the touchdown DOESN'T count, and they get put BACK 15 yards. Dumbest god damn penalty ever. Of course that wasn't even close to being the first ridiculous "celebration" penalty in NCAA football, it goes back a long time, and the penalties are completely bogus 90% of the time.
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No kidding.


My interpretation of everything going on with these "sanctions" is that the big schools are all starting to get caught paying players. They are all doing it, but it is getting harder and harder to hide it. The NCAA knows this. They also feel that if they drop the hammer on a bunch of historical institutions, there might be some sort of backlash at the NCAA. It would not be difficult for the "BCS schools" to quit the NCAA for football and create their own league. The money is there. The logistics would be a nightmare, but it is very doable.
 
didn't UNC get hosed?


also, I never understood how Reggie Bush didn't earn his Heisman. Why the fuck should he give that back?
 
BergeLSU said:
No kidding.


My interpretation of everything going on with these "sanctions" is that the big schools are all starting to get caught paying players. They are all doing it, but it is getting harder and harder to hide it. The NCAA knows this. They also feel that if they drop the hammer on a bunch of historical institutions, there might be some sort of backlash at the NCAA. It would not be difficult for the "BCS schools" to quit the NCAA for football and create their own league. The money is there. The logistics would be a nightmare, but it is very doable.
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It'd be great to see some of the powerhouse schools all band together and leave the stupid NCAA. Then actually pay some of their recruits and have a better product. Where are kids going to go out of high school, to a uni that pays them vs one that doesn't and has stupid ass rules? It would definitely work.
 
fustercluck said:
Why does the NCAA do such a good job with college basketball (at least seemingly, the NCAA Basketball tournament is arguably the best post-season in all of sports) and such a shitty job with Football (No playoff at all). Not just looking at post-season but overall, College Hoops seems much more solid. While the people who run NCAA football have been a joke for a long, long time.
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the NCAA does not run division 1a football. they have no say in the post season format.
 
fustercluck said:
Why does the NCAA do such a good job with college basketball (at least seemingly, the NCAA Basketball tournament is arguably the best post-season in all of sports) and such a shitty job with Football (No playoff at all). Not just looking at post-season but overall, College Hoops seems much more solid. While the people who run NCAA football have been a joke for a long, long time.
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You don't understand how college football operates and the differences between that and college basketball. Let's get basketball out of the way first -- the NCAA does, in fact, run the college basketball tournament and it is highly successful and IMO, rivals the Super Bowl for the best championship event of any sport.

College football has 2 main components in division I -- FBS (the bowl series) and FCS. The NCAA does conduct the FCS championship. It does NOT conduct the FBS bowl games and that's where all the big-time conferences reside. The NCAA has no power to conduct the bowl games nor can it mandate that the bowl series be replaced with a playoff system. It can only enforce the rules passed by the membership. Remember, the NCAA is a membership-driven association and as a result, the only way the NCAA can be given a mandate to scrap FBS and FCS and institute a college basketball-style playoff for college football is if the membership authorizes them to do so. The big conferences have their own deals for a huge amount of money from college football bowl games, television rights, etc. Do you think they'll ever give the NCAA the authority to scrap that and replace it with a less lucrative (for them) system?
 
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Red Storm said:
The NCAA (the people running it) is a joke. They just want to be the only ones making money off of these kids.
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I suggest you read up on college football and who runs the money-making bowl games and where that money goes vs. the NCAA's general finances and how it gives a huge percentage of money (something like 94% of revenue) back to the membership in yearly distributions.
 
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