nba question

[Stifko]

Originally posted by: GambiT
Quoting from the immortal NAT X from SNL:

Top 5 reasons why black guys don't play hockey:
5). It's too cold out there
4). Don't wanna lose that gold tooth
3). Don't wanna be around a bunch of white guys with sticks
2). Don't wanna be around a bunch of white guys with masks
1). They don't want to dominate, yet another sport.

hehehe, who played Nat X ? Tracy Morgan or Tim Reid ?

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: Stifko

Originally posted by: GambiT
Quoting from the immortal NAT X from SNL:

Top 5 reasons why black guys don't play hockey:
5). It's too cold out there
4). Don't wanna lose that gold tooth
3). Don't wanna be around a bunch of white guys with sticks
2). Don't wanna be around a bunch of white guys with masks
1). They don't want to dominate, yet another sport.

hehehe, who played Nat X ? Tracy Morgan or Tim Reid ?

Chris Rock!

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: KC5AV

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: RudeBoie

Originally posted by: mpitts
Black people are generally better at basketball.

More like there are MORE black players that are better than the white ones.

Simple answer.

Any sport is like is that.

Why are there more white hockey players? Because not too many black people are good at hockey.

How do you know they're not? They really don't play hockey so you can't say they're not any good at it.

Damn you guys are dense sometimes.

Reality check here... if they don't play a sport then the odds are pretty good that they aren't going to be good at that sport.

It's not about being good at a sport, it's about potentially being good at a sport. The only reason you see mostly white pro hockey players is because pretty much only white kids play hockey. When these kids get older and have played all their lives, who does the NHL have to choose from? White people. The opposite is true with the NBA. To address the original question more succinctly; if more white kids got into and stuck with basketball, you'd see more white kids in the NBA. It's about the base population of players you have to choose from.

 

[RudeBoie]

I see.

We have the same answer from different perspectives.

I'm saying that it is a fact there are more blacks that play basketball at a high level than whites, and you're focusing on why that is.

I like the soccer example BigSmooth put out earlier.

That's a truly global sport, and you see great players from everywhere. Most american sports are black/white, while soccer is global so even Asians like me can find a great Asian soccer player to watch in the World Cup.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: RudeBoie
I see.

We have the same answer from different perspectives.

I'm saying that it is a fact there are more blacks that play basketball at a high level than whites, and you're focusing on why that is.

I like the soccer example BigSmooth put out earlier.

That's a truly global sport, and you see great players from everywhere. Most american sports are black/white, while soccer is global so even Asians like me can find a great Asian soccer player to watch in the World Cup.

Exactly. It's cultural, not genetic or racial.

 

[RudeBoie]

Reality check here... if they don't play a sport then the odds are pretty good that they aren't going to be good at that sport.

It's not about being good at a sport, it's about potentially being good at a sport. The only reason you see mostly white pro hockey players is because pretty much only white kids play hockey. When these kids get older and have played all their lives, who does the NHL have to choose from? White people. The opposite is true with the NBA. To address the original question more succinctly; if more white kids got into and stuck with basketball, you'd see more white kids in the NBA. It's about the base population of players you have to choose from.[/quote]

I think that most of us weren't arguing about someone being potentially good at something, it's an argument of who is good.

If we want to ask who could be potentially good, anyone can be potentially good.

It goes along with the idea that "all men are created equal".

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
It's not about being good at a sport, it's about potentially being good at a sport. The only reason you see mostly white pro hockey players is because pretty much only white kids play hockey. When these kids get older and have played all their lives, who does the NHL have to choose from? White people. The opposite is true with the NBA. To address the original question more succinctly; if more white kids got into and stuck with basketball, you'd see more white kids in the NBA. It's about the base population of players you have to choose from.

Exactly, I think this is 10x more important than muscle structure etc.

Baseball started becoming popular in Central American countries many years ago. More and more Latin players started appearing in the majors and now many Latin players are among the best in the game.
The same thing goes for Japan. They are a number of years behind the Latin players but again, as the sport became more popular there, more young people undoubtedly started to play, so now we have Ichiro and a number of other excellent Japanese players.

Success breeds success, and one great player can really lead to a proliferation of talent from a new source down the road. For instance, Yao Ming's success could lead to more Asian players in the NBA. It might be years from now, but if more and more kids are out on the playground trying to "be like Yao", that's what makes a difference. 🙂

 

[RudeBoie]

Exactly. It's cultural, not genetic or racial.

I think that this may be true, but we don't know enough about genetics to say if that's completely true. It's easier and BEST to believe that we are all equal, but there is a possibility that isn't true. I don't mean to start some flame war, but the possibility exists.

While it's possible to say that a lot of it is cultural, which I believe it is, it's impossible to say that the absolutely ONLY reason that blacks are more dominant in basketball is because more blacks play basketball.

As in all things in life, things are probably more complicated than that.

Maybe blacks run faster, but whites kick harder, and asians react faster. Who knows right?

 

[RudeBoie]

Baseball started becoming popular in Central American countries many years ago. More and more Latin players started appearing in the majors and now many Latin players are among the best in the game.
The same thing goes for Japan. They are a number of years behind the Latin players but again, as the sport became more popular there, more young people undoubtedly started to play, so now we have Ichiro and a number of other excellent Japanese players.

Baseball has been huge in Japan for a lot longer than you may think. I don't remember the years exactly, but I would argue that baseball has been just as big in Japan for just as long.

After all, look at Little League. For a long time, the best teams were coming from Asia. And not Japanese teams- Korean, Taiwan, etc. I always wondered why they could be so good as kids and then no one ever played in the US. Looks like times are changing! 🙂

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: RudeBoie

Exactly. It's cultural, not genetic or racial.

I think that this may be true, but we don't know enough about genetics to say if that's completely true. It's easier and BEST to believe that we are all equal, but there is a possibility that isn't true. I don't mean to start some flame war, but the possibility exists.

While it's possible to say that a lot of it is cultural, which I believe it is, it's impossible to say that the absolutely ONLY reason that blacks are more dominant in basketball is because more blacks play basketball.

As in all things in life, things are probably more complicated than that.

Maybe blacks run faster, but whites kick harder, and asians react faster. Who knows right?

I think there is some truth to that, I think it's pretty clear that different races are slightly different physically.
However, I think that at the highest level of sports, the people playing it are not "typical", no matter what race they are from. Yao Ming is not a typical Chinese man. 😀 Yet his genetic makeup is clearly suited for playing basketball. There are always exceptional people no matter the racial background.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: RudeBoie

Baseball started becoming popular in Central American countries many years ago. More and more Latin players started appearing in the majors and now many Latin players are among the best in the game.
The same thing goes for Japan. They are a number of years behind the Latin players but again, as the sport became more popular there, more young people undoubtedly started to play, so now we have Ichiro and a number of other excellent Japanese players.

Baseball has been huge in Japan for a lot longer than you may think. I don't remember the years exactly, but I would argue that baseball has been just as big in Japan for just as long.

After all, look at Little League. For a long time, the best teams were coming from Asia. And not Japanese teams- Korean, Taiwan, etc. I always wondered why they could be so good as kids and then no one ever played in the US. Looks like times are changing! 🙂

It's been there a long time, true, but not as long as it has been in places like Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: RudeBoie

Exactly. It's cultural, not genetic or racial.

I think that this may be true, but we don't know enough about genetics to say if that's completely true. It's easier and BEST to believe that we are all equal, but there is a possibility that isn't true. I don't mean to start some flame war, but the possibility exists.

While it's possible to say that a lot of it is cultural, which I believe it is, it's impossible to say that the absolutely ONLY reason that blacks are more dominant in basketball is because more blacks play basketball.

As in all things in life, things are probably more complicated than that.

Maybe blacks run faster, but whites kick harder, and asians react faster. Who knows right?

You do know that humans vary genetically by 1 in 1000, right? And also, you find MORE variation in a "race" than you do outside of one, in other words, two people from different "races" are likely to be genetically more similar than two people of the same race. It is cultural, think about it. Who do you look up to when you are a kid? I doubt a high percentage of African American people look up to say Bill Gates or the president as much as they do Michael Jordan, so what do they do, play basketball. And it is available, just have to find a ball and a court.

there is a good series on PBS called "RACE - The Power of an Illusion" , check tvguide.com for listings if you are interested, the 3rd part of the series is on tonight on my local PBS in Richmond, VA.

 

[TheShiz]

heres a pretty neat quiz on human diversity, take it and see what you know:

human diversity quiz on pbs website

 

[AnimeKnight]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Guys, it's a cultural thing, not a race thing. Look at what sports are popular with what groups (speaking generally, of course), then look at the racial makeup at the pro level. Pretty similar eh? Of course, this could all be very different 20 years down the road according to the ebb and flow of the popularity of various sports. Golf is mostly a white sport right now, but there was a big surge in popularity amonst minority players thanks to Tiger. 10 years from now that could mean a lot of non-white kids are picking up golf at a young age. More people playing increases the likelyhood that some really talented players will emerge and change the profile of the pro golf ranks.

I somewhat agree to this but I also think its economic issue. If you look at various sports such as tennis, golf, hockey...etc. They are mostly domninated by whites. Why? Because those sports requires a lot of lessons or speical facility to play in them. But basketball you can just go to a school playground and you can play.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: AnimeKnight

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Guys, it's a cultural thing, not a race thing. Look at what sports are popular with what groups (speaking generally, of course), then look at the racial makeup at the pro level. Pretty similar eh? Of course, this could all be very different 20 years down the road according to the ebb and flow of the popularity of various sports. Golf is mostly a white sport right now, but there was a big surge in popularity amonst minority players thanks to Tiger. 10 years from now that could mean a lot of non-white kids are picking up golf at a young age. More people playing increases the likelyhood that some really talented players will emerge and change the profile of the pro golf ranks.

I somewhat agree to this but I also think its economic issue. If you look at various sports such as tennis, golf, hockey...etc. They are mostly domninated by whites. Why? Because those sports requires a lot of lessons or speical facility to play in them. But basketball you can just go to a school playground and you can play.

economics are a part of culture.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: AnimeKnight

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Guys, it's a cultural thing, not a race thing. Look at what sports are popular with what groups (speaking generally, of course), then look at the racial makeup at the pro level. Pretty similar eh? Of course, this could all be very different 20 years down the road according to the ebb and flow of the popularity of various sports. Golf is mostly a white sport right now, but there was a big surge in popularity amonst minority players thanks to Tiger. 10 years from now that could mean a lot of non-white kids are picking up golf at a young age. More people playing increases the likelyhood that some really talented players will emerge and change the profile of the pro golf ranks.

I somewhat agree to this but I also think its economic issue. If you look at various sports such as tennis, golf, hockey...etc. They are mostly domninated by whites. Why? Because those sports requires a lot of lessons or speical facility to play in them. But basketball you can just go to a school playground and you can play.

I was lumping economic issues in with cultural issues. Besides, it depends on what area of the country you're talking about when you discuss race and income. Atlanta has a much larger black middle and upper class than other areas so you see a lot of black golfer, tennis players, and cyclists. All are sports that require a reasonable amount of money to get into.

 

[AnimeKnight]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: AnimeKnight

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Guys, it's a cultural thing, not a race thing. Look at what sports are popular with what groups (speaking generally, of course), then look at the racial makeup at the pro level. Pretty similar eh? Of course, this could all be very different 20 years down the road according to the ebb and flow of the popularity of various sports. Golf is mostly a white sport right now, but there was a big surge in popularity amonst minority players thanks to Tiger. 10 years from now that could mean a lot of non-white kids are picking up golf at a young age. More people playing increases the likelyhood that some really talented players will emerge and change the profile of the pro golf ranks.

I somewhat agree to this but I also think its economic issue. If you look at various sports such as tennis, golf, hockey...etc. They are mostly domninated by whites. Why? Because those sports requires a lot of lessons or speical facility to play in them. But basketball you can just go to a school playground and you can play.

I was lumping economic issues in with cultural issues. Besides, it depends on what area of the country you're talking about when you discuss race and income. Atlanta has a much larger black middle and upper class than other areas so you see a lot of black golfer, tennis players, and cyclists. All are sports that require a reasonable amount of money to get into.

for me economic issues and culutral are separate issues... but that's just for me. I realize that Atlanta has a much larger black middle and upper class than other areas but that's just a small percentage of people trying out for any pro sports from that area.

 

[prodigy]

Why are Chinese so good at ping pong?

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: RudeBoie

I personally am scared at these kind of arguments, because I'm scared at what it could mean for society if these kind of ideas were promoted in the world.

Just because an issue is a touchy one doesn't mean the facts don't exist. Yes, this is a touchy issue. And yes, there is evidense relating to dispositions of different levels of testosterone levels, body fat levels, pigment levels, and even testosterone levels that vary with race.

Saying that "race does not mean anything" is simple turning a blind eye to facts that do exist. I would not say that any one race is generally "better" overall than another, but it's sure possible that they are better at a certain task than others.

There is no denying that western Africans are better sprinters than any other group of people. Worldwide, they're only a small group of people. And when they were not allowed to compete due to racist reasons, there were white champions. But now that they can freely compete, they hold fully 100% of all track records under 300 meters, events which favor quick twitch muscles. Some of these records have not been held by a non-western african in 40 years. Their higher percentage of quick twitch muscle fibers gives them more explosive power off the line, and faster bursts of speed. Someone that does not naturally have that physical disposition is not very likely to win in that sport. It's not impossible, but unlikely.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Xcrown

Just to addon, thats why Kenyans and other Africans are good marathon runners, its all in the culture and upbringing, while a majority of black american youth grows up playing basketball.

It seems that you are willingly turning a blind eye to the facts in an effort to be politically correct.

Right, culture is what what makes Kenyans win. Sure. This very small group of people on the Earth wins an outlandish percentage of marathon events. This is not about culture, they naturally have the body type to excel in this type of event. Their people evolved in the mountains of Africa at high altitudes, and they have larger lungs and smaller, leaner, more efficient bodies.

It's not impossible for someone else to win, but it's very very likely that their genetic disposition will help them overcome their competition. The result? 12 Boston Marathon winners in the last 13 years. You don't raise someone to have larger lungs and more efficient bodies. It's a result of evolution. Hard work and nurture will only get you so far, nature plays a huge role.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Right, but I'm just pointing out why there are more black players that are talented than white; because there are more black people playing in the first place. If we assume 2% of all people who get into a sport have the potential to play it at the highest level, 2% of a lot of black people playing bball is a bigger number than the 2% of white people playing right now.

That would make sense if 2% of the people won 2% of the events. Or 2% of black people who tried to get into the NBA succeeded, and 2% of the white people who tries to get in succeeded. But sometimes things don't travel along even percentages like that. What about when 2% of the contestants win 90% of the events? At that point you have to realize that there is a very strong factor at work which should be indentified. What happens when you find out that the group that comprises the 2% is from one area on the Earth? Should you turn a blind eye and write it off as a coincidence that this trend is occuring out of fear of being called a discriminator? Or should you be scientific and try to get at real reason why one group of participants is so dominant?

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
Exactly, I think this is 10x more important than muscle structure etc.

If it is 10X more important that muscle structure, then why do people that come from one part of Earth (which through evolution have taken on a certain body structure) perform so overwhelmingly dominantly at certain events?

12 wins in the last 13 years. And you think that everyone has the same exact chance of winning? Get real here and look at the facts. There are most definitely certain body types that are dominant at certain tasks. And it only makes sense that those who evolve in a common geographical area will take on a similar body structure as a result of their environment.

I don't think it's a racial issue per se in the way we think about racial issues, but I do think it's an evolutionary issue. I also can see why Christians would be against my argument, since it deals with evolution and many Christians do not believe in evolution.