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Nazis may have tested a nuke before the US had them

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Originally posted by: Zebo
This is pretty old news..how you think Russia got them??. Germany had the brains and would have most certainly had nukes before US but Hilter, being a pedestrian/idealoge, did'nt believe in the science so he cut the funding and shelved the projects way back in 37'. The germans were far more advanced in every facet or war, rockets, cryptography, submarines, bombs, communication, submarines whose scientists all went to work for USA and RUSSIA after war.. it's no stretch to say they would have had nukes before both if allowed to.

Actually, I would say the US was ahead of Germany in submarine development until near the end of the war. IIRC, the us Fleet Submarines were faster, better armed (not counting our torpedo problem), had longer ranges, and generally more advanced technology then their German counterparts.

Only with the delayed development of the "Elektro" boats did Germany take the lead and by that time the war had already been lost. The Walter process boats they persued previous to this also turned out to be too problematic and was scrapped, though some of their develeopment paved the way for the Type XXI.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
This is pretty old news..how you think Russia got them??. Germany had the brains and would have most certainly had nukes before US but Hilter, being a pedestrian/idealoge, did'nt believe in the science so he cut the funding and shelved the projects way back in 37'. The germans were far more advanced in every facet or war, rockets, cryptography, submarines, bombs, communication, submarines whose scientists all went to work for USA and RUSSIA after war.. it's no stretch to say they would have had nukes before both if allowed to.

The russians got the bomb from their spies which had infiltrated the Manhatten Project. Ted Hall probably gave the most info. Additionally the Rosenbergs were spies, however pretty insignificant compared to others. Do a search on Venona which is a long series of Soviet communications which were broken by US and UK code breakers (mainly because the Soviets screwed up and reused a one-time pad), finally revealed in 1995. Incidentally many of the spies uncovered by Venona were never prosecuted because the decrypts were classified and thus couldn't be used as evidence.
 
And that is not entirely correct either. Spies helped speed up the development but there were plenty of very competent physicists (they had some of the best researchers in the world) in the Soviet Union, once they knew that a bomb was possible and they were given unlimited resources it was only a matter of time.
By 1944 everyone knew that a bomb was possible, even Japan had a started developing a bomb. I don't think spies made such a big difference
People keep forgetting that it is easy to build a bomb once you you have the plutonium.


 
Originally posted by: f95toli
And that is not entirely correct either. Spies helped speed up the development but there were plenty of very competent physicists (they had some of the best researchers in the world) in the Soviet Union, once they knew that a bomb was possible and they were given unlimited resources it was only a matter of time.
By 1944 everyone knew that a bomb was possible, even Japan had a started developing a bomb. I don't think spies made such a big difference
People keep forgetting that it is easy to build a bomb once you you have the plutonium.

Actually, weapons that use Uranium as fuel are much simpler to construct than Plutonium fueled weapons.

Klaus Fuchs proived very valuable information to the Soviets while working on the Manhattan project.
 
Originally posted by: f95toli
And that is not entirely correct either. Spies helped speed up the development but there were plenty of very competent physicists (they had some of the best researchers in the world) in the Soviet Union, once they knew that a bomb was possible and they were given unlimited resources it was only a matter of time.
By 1944 everyone knew that a bomb was possible, even Japan had a started developing a bomb. I don't think spies made such a big difference
People keep forgetting that it is easy to build a bomb once you you have the plutonium.



Well sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the first soviet bomb was of American design. They were MANY years behind the US when suddenly they detonated their first bomb.
 
I was tracking the German A bomb from C2C, and googled this site.
You gotta realize, if you have a pile, you have a bomb. Our first bomb was under the squash court in the College at Chicago. Nostradamus, and only Nostradamus, has got it in print that we fielded three "Scourges, never before seen by man", and that the first one went "BOOM" , thirty miles due East of Cape May, N.J. on a Friday afternoon, about 4:30 in Jan. 1943. I would guess it was a pile on a barge, heading for the sub pens on the French Coast, that were driving Churchhill, bonkers. The sixteenth cent. quote is, "By the Harbor, and in two cities, will be seen a scourge, never before seen by man," ect. Much of the mis-information about the "Philadelphia Experiment" is a cover up of our very real casulties from what must have been a really collossal screw up.
 
Originally posted by: Indybusters
I was tracking the German A bomb from C2C, and googled this site.
You gotta realize, if you have a pile, you have a bomb. Our first bomb was under the squash court in the College at Chicago. Nostradamus, and only Nostradamus, has got it in print that we fielded three "Scourges, never before seen by man", and that the first one went "BOOM" , thirty miles due East of Cape May, N.J. on a Friday afternoon, about 4:30 in Jan. 1943. I would guess it was a pile on a barge, heading for the sub pens on the French Coast, that were driving Churchhill, bonkers. The sixteenth cent. quote is, "By the Harbor, and in two cities, will be seen a scourge, never before seen by man," ect. Much of the mis-information about the "Philadelphia Experiment" is a cover up of our very real casulties from what must have been a really collossal screw up.

What in the hell are you talking about?
 
Originally posted by: Indybusters
I was tracking the German A bomb from C2C, and googled this site.
You gotta realize, if you have a pile, you have a bomb. Our first bomb was under the squash court in the College at Chicago.

Wrong. Folks, this guy is talking about the breeder reactor Enrico Fermi and crew worked on as part of the early stages of the
Manhatten project. While a breeder reactor can be considered a small "pile" of fissionable material, it is not by any strech a bomb.
Nor is it true that " if you have a pile, you have a bomb". There have been naturally occuring nuclear reacting piles found in
a few places around the world. Most are dormant now, having been active many millions of years ago, and have fallen below
critical mass.
 
Sorry about the blank post.
I'm real serious, and I do know what I'm talking about.
1. The difference between a Uranium deposit, and the Fermi Pile, is that the pile is "moderated", whilst the native element doesn't get its neutrons slowed down. We knew graphite would moderate, but the Nazi's were hooked on heavy water D2 O, for their moderater. We did finally blow a moderated reactor up, in Nevada, about 1970. It got the standard B.S. press release of 20 Kilotons. I remember seeing a bright flash and mushroom cloud on the news at the time. No more reactor containment building.
2. The Cape May event is the first actual weapon, regardless of the Gov'ts silence. They must have gone nuts over the coverup, as only a precious few scientists knew of the Manhattan project. This discounts a Captain who obliterated himself at hanford with slugs of uranium dropping past other slugs from a steel tower to test for critical mass. The Gov't covered this one up for many years, after all, it wasn't really a bomb, unless it was issued as a bomb. If the Nazi's and the present terrorists stick to moderated supercriticalities, instead of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki unmoderated, but supercritical bombs, then the difference will be in miliseconds for the people around ground zero. G.E. calculated, in a reactor, the time for a cosmic ray to take a supercritical mass to detonation is three millionths of a second. That Hanford Captain kept dropping larger and larger slugs, until an unlucky transient cosmic ray lit him up real good. The Gov't figured that stray "rays" weren't good enough, so they included a Polonium isotope right in the middle of the two Bombs dropped on Japan, and called this improvement , the "Initiator".
3. I don't expect any of you to be up on old Nosty, but I'm giving him proper credit on naming and locating three atomic bombs used in action, in WWII, by the U.S..
 
Originally posted by: Indybusters
Sorry about the blank post.

You do know you can edit your posts, right?

I'm real serious, and I do know what I'm talking about.

You rambling posting method doesn't do much to support that claim. Nor does your lack of supporting links.

1. The difference between a Uranium deposit, and the Fermi Pile, is that the pile is "moderated", whilst the native element doesn't get its neutrons slowed down.

The native element rarely achieves high enough refinement to achieve fission, much less criticality. They become moderated by
the presence of other elements in the surrounding soil.

We knew graphite would moderate, but the Nazi's were hooked on heavy water D2 O, for their moderater.

And what does this have to do with your claims above?

We did finally blow a moderated reactor up, in Nevada, about 1970. It got the standard B.S. press release of 20 Kilotons. I remember seeing a bright flash and mushroom cloud on the news at the time. No more reactor containment building.

Do you have a copy of that press release? AFAIK no reactor could blow up with a measured blast of any Kilotonnage; even
if it was pushed to critical overload. An atomic explosion IIRC, does not occur from reaching critical mass, but by forcing the
core materials to reach supercriticality under pressure by the use of a triggering detonation compressing the fissionable materials
far beyond the critical threshold. Otherwise, the only explosive effects possible would be caused by a rupture in the containment
vessel caused by expanding gases venting from the heat of the nuclear core.

According to this site, there were no above ground nuclear tests
conducted in Nevada past 1958. This table shows the last atmospheric tests conducted by the US took place in 1963. If it was an underground bomb test you are referring to, then there would not likely have
been a flash or mushrooom cloud visible at the time.

2. The Cape May event is the first actual weapon, regardless of the Gov'ts silence.

So you claim, but you don't provide any information on what this Cape May event was supposed to be. Link?

They must have gone nuts over the coverup, as only a precious few scientists knew of the Manhattan project.

Except for all the scientists actually on the project?

This discounts a Captain who obliterated himself at hanford with slugs of uranium dropping past other slugs from a steel tower to test for critical mass.

Link?

The Gov't covered this one up for many years, after all, it wasn't really a bomb, unless it was issued as a bomb. If the Nazi's and the present terrorists stick to moderated supercriticalities, instead of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki unmoderated, but supercritical bombs, then the difference will be in miliseconds for the people around ground zero.

You are using present tense for Nazi research on atomic bombs?

G.E. calculated, in a reactor, the time for a cosmic ray to take a supercritical mass to detonation is three millionths of a second.

G.E? (oh, and Link?)

That Hanford Captain kept dropping larger and larger slugs, until an unlucky transient cosmic ray lit him up real good.

What happened to his support team?

The Gov't figured that stray "rays" weren't good enough, so they included a Polonium isotope right in the middle of the two Bombs dropped on Japan, and called this improvement , the "Initiator".
Little Boy
Fat Man

If these guys are wrong in their specs, you might want to send them an email about it.

3. I don't expect any of you to be up on old Nosty, but I'm giving him proper credit on naming and locating three atomic bombs used in action, in WWII, by the U.S..

But if what you claim is true, that proves old Nosty wrong. Trinity, Hiroshima and Nagasaki count as three, but Cape May and
Hanford would bring the number up to five.
 
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