Navy to allow woman has SEALs?

[destrekor]

Part 3;

Women are physically different, and we need to treat the sexes as such. This "sex is just a social construct" bullshit needs to stop.

I'm very much on the fence on women in combat roles, because of the above.

But I also must admit, that such roles as the above are vastly different. Why? Because those women being evacuated aren't in proper combat roles in the first place. They could be just as much of a low quality Soldier as a portion of the men in the same unit.

And a high number of pregnancy-related situations = women looking for an easy way out. There is no other way around that. It's possible they deployed and lied and/or didn't get a good enough physical prior to deployment, or didn't care if they might be and knew they would get shipped back if they turned out to be pregnant. It's also possible they attempted to get pregnant once they hit the ground. In no cases is this going to be some Virgin Mary thing - they didn't do a good enough job or they intended to get themselves evacuated. There is zero reason for that to happen.

For that reason, I strongly suspect that in proper roles, where the women are held to the same standard as men, you will get higher-quality women who are just as capable, if not more capable, than their male counterparts. And for that reason, they will be more mentally prepared for the rigors of combat, and will likely WANT to be a dependable Soldier who doesn't try to get knocked up to get out of the theater.

And lastly, I'm all for these specialty schools opening up to female applicants. Why? Because all it means is they have a qualification, and in the case of the Ranger school, a tab on their uniform. It doesn't mean they become a part of a Ranger unit. The 75th Ranger Regiment is still male-only.

 

[Homerboy]

Where the hell is the OP? He just bailed out on the thread? He's a bigger pussy than those females that want to get into the SEALs!

 

[MarkXIX]

Funny, I could say the same thing about you. National Guard as Military Police? Wow.

Seals are Elite TEAMS. Not some jokers watching a gate with a M9 strapped to their leg.

The issue I have is females being in actual daily combat. Inserted into tight knit squads placed in the middle of nowhere all by themselves. Not on some large base. It creates a huge issue logistically and with the fine balance within the squad.

So yeah, like you said. If you don't know, don't act like you do.

Again, talking out your ass. I'm THIS kind of MP (combat support).

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5nzynUa871qc4dkho1_400.jpg

Whether you know it or not, "watching a gate with a (sic) M9 strapped to their leg" is an extra duty for most MPs. Only the wannabe cops prefer that duty, the rest of the Army MP Corps tend to prefer the combat support role.

Here's the common configuration of a US Army Combat Support MP team:

Driver: M9 pistol, M249 machine gun for vehicle defense
Gunner: M9 pistol, M4 carbine and selection of M249, M240B, M2, or Mk19 (or both) crew served weapons mounted on either HMMWV or M1117 ASV
Team Leader: M9, M4 w/ M203 (or M320)

That doesn't include other mission specific armaments such as shoulder launched anti-tank/personnel weapons, etc.

So, go ahead thinking you know what you're talking about. I will concede the previous poster's study on pain tolerance, though like all research, I will do so with a grain of salt. Eggs have been terrible for my health at various points in my life, then they've been a wonder food again at others.

 

[z1ggy]

If they can pass the test, then let them.

What they shouldn't do is lower the standards so that more women can join. That's just setting everyone up to get killed.

This.

Plus I'd love to see OP fight the top Israel women soldiers. If that lasted longer than 10s and didn't end with the fat lard OP on the ground clinching his face/balls, I'd be shocked. A lady SEAL would be no different.

 

[SP33Demon]

This.

Plus I'd love to see OP fight the top Israel women soldiers. If that lasted longer than 10s and didn't end with the fat lard OP on the ground clinching his face/balls, I'd be shocked. A lady SEAL would be no different.

Women can be formidable compared to the avg cough potato, but at the elite level it doesn't compare to men. Imagine if the elite "top Israel women soldiers" had to fight our elite 75th Ranger Regiment (all male) in hand to hand combat. Can you tell me with a straight face that the women would win? If so, then you believe that women and men are physically equal in strength which is false. I see a lot of people saying "this woman could beat you up" but that's comparing apples to oranges - in war it's your best vs their best. All elite physical sports separate competitive men and women; the military are fools if they allow women into positions where elite strength is required. It could be very possible that certain non-elite Ranger units do not require elite strength, and if so then that's fine.

 

[notposting]

You don't really have a clue what you're talking about.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/lt-col-kate-germano-on-the-marines-and-women/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/u...-debate-on-integration-of-women-in-corps.html

Forgot the links. Go ahead and read them.

 

[MarkXIX]

Women can be formidable compared to the avg cough potato, but at the elite level it doesn't compare to men. Imagine if the elite "top Israel women soldiers" had to fight our elite 75th Ranger Regiment (all male) in hand to hand combat. Can you tell me with a straight face that the women would win? If so, then you believe that women and men are physically equal in strength which is false. I see a lot of people saying "this woman could beat you up" but that's comparing apples to oranges - in war it's your best vs their best. All elite physical sports separate competitive men and women; the military are fools if they allow women into positions where elite strength is required. It could be very possible that certain non-elite Ranger units do not require elite strength, and if so then that's fine.

God damnit! No one in the military is talking about creating all female Spec Ops units. A team is a team. They train together so that they operate cohesively and effectively.

A female Soldier is just as capable as a male when it comes time to squeeze the fucking trigger, wear NVGs, parachute, fast rope, and carry a combat load. They do it every day in our modern military, just not in all roles.

Women present a unique capability in elite units that operate in certain cultures. Having them as part of the team is already being done, read up on Female Engagement Teams. I've sent two females to participate in such teams from my unit.

Stop thinking that all Spec Ops missions are like the shit you play on your PS4 or that they're like some action movie. That's not how most operations happen. Fuck, read a book or two once in a while.

 

[Paratus]

 

[Sonikku]

Now in combat and I'm fire fight with ISIS, Boko Haram or Al Qaeda do I need to yell across the battlefield and say, "HOLD UP! SHE HAS TO CHANGE HER TAMPON!" Then if I get injured will she be able to pull my ass out of there to the LZ?

Stay the fuck at home! 😡

You're going to be glad you have a woman in your unit when you need one of her tampons to stop your bleeding. :hmm:

 

[z1ggy]

Women can be formidable compared to the avg cough potato, but at the elite level it doesn't compare to men. Imagine if the elite "top Israel women soldiers" had to fight our elite 75th Ranger Regiment (all male) in hand to hand combat. Can you tell me with a straight face that the women would win? If so, then you believe that women and men are physically equal in strength which is false. I see a lot of people saying "this woman could beat you up" but that's comparing apples to oranges - in war it's your best vs their best. All elite physical sports separate competitive men and women; the military are fools if they allow women into positions where elite strength is required. It could be very possible that certain non-elite Ranger units do not require elite strength, and if so then that's fine.

I was referring to any elite woman fights the fat tubster that OP apparently is. A 6 foot 330lb blob would be easily dispatched by an athletic, elite martial artist woman. In his OP he claimed some woman couldn't subdue him. Unless he's the fat version of Bruce Lee, I doubt that.

With regard to the elite vs elite, then yes, obviously that's likely true. Elite man vs Elite woman, man will likely come out on top 9/10 times.

But yeah, I feel like this whole hand to hand mortal combat style fighting that you think happens all the time, probably doesn't. SEALs and Special OPs get in.. and get the fawk out as silently and deadly as possible. Can't speak from experience though, so shit, maybe they do go around fighting terrorists hand to hand all the time, who knows. Obviously if they do, the Navy feels like that elite women could handle it.

 

[Ackmed]

Again, talking out your ass. I'm THIS kind of MP (combat support).

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5nzynUa871qc4dkho1_400.jpg

Whether you know it or not, "watching a gate with a (sic) M9 strapped to their leg" is an extra duty for most MPs. Only the wannabe cops prefer that duty, the rest of the Army MP Corps tend to prefer the combat support role.

Here's the common configuration of a US Army Combat Support MP team:

Driver: M9 pistol, M249 machine gun for vehicle defense
Gunner: M9 pistol, M4 carbine and selection of M249, M240B, M2, or Mk19 (or both) crew served weapons mounted on either HMMWV or M1117 ASV
Team Leader: M9, M4 w/ M203 (or M320)

That doesn't include other mission specific armaments such as shoulder launched anti-tank/personnel weapons, etc.

So, go ahead thinking you know what you're talking about. I will concede the previous poster's study on pain tolerance, though like all research, I will do so with a grain of salt. Eggs have been terrible for my health at various points in my life, then they've been a wonder food again at others.

I do know what I am talking about. But since you're a MP (oh my!) you certainly know more. Except you stay on big ass bases, don't try to deny it. You have vehicles. You're also National Guard... I mean, c'mon.

The fact is aside from very few, females are not strong enough. It also would create a logistical nightmare, and disrupt the very careful balance of a team or small unit. Again this is not for mainstream military, but my opinion on small tactical teams and squads that are inserted into enemy territory.

That is not a slight on women, it is just facts. Why aren't the same people wanting this clamoring for males and females to compete in track&field or any other sport? Because men ARE faster and stronger on the whole. I believe women can do some things better than men, and men do some things better than women. We're different, people just need to get over it.

Just because some women in your guard unit can do whatever it is you do on training, does not mean that is universal in every branch and every circumstance.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/lt-col-kate-germano-on-the-marines-and-women/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/u...-debate-on-integration-of-women-in-corps.html

Forgot the links. Go ahead and read them.

I'm aware of her, what "point" are you trying to prove? You just went off on an ignorant rant with all caps and subject spelling of words in your previous post.

 

[nakedfrog]

Women can be formidable compared to the avg cough potato, but at the elite level it doesn't compare to men. Imagine if the elite "top Israel women soldiers" had to fight our elite 75th Ranger Regiment (all male) in hand to hand combat. Can you tell me with a straight face that the women would win? If so, then you believe that women and men are physically equal in strength which is false. I see a lot of people saying "this woman could beat you up" but that's comparing apples to oranges - in war it's your best vs their best.

I wasn't aware that we solved military disputes by sending our elite units up against the enemy's elite units. I don't think that's how it works.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I was referring to any elite woman fights the fat tubster that OP apparently is. A 6 foot 330lb blob would be easily dispatched by an athletic, elite martial artist woman. In his OP he claimed some woman couldn't subdue him. Unless he's the fat version of Bruce Lee, I doubt that.

With regard to the elite vs elite, then yes, obviously that's likely true. Elite man vs Elite woman, man will likely come out on top 9/10 times.

But yeah, I feel like this whole hand to hand mortal combat style fighting that you think happens all the time, probably doesn't. SEALs and Special OPs get in.. and get the fawk out as silently and deadly as possible. Can't speak from experience though, so shit, maybe they do go around fighting terrorists hand to hand all the time, who knows. Obviously if they do, the Navy feels like that elite women could handle it.

I think we've watched too many movies where elite female agent of county X meets elite male counter agent of country Y and proceeds to have an evenly matched hand-to-hand battle where they apparently have exactly the same level of strength. That ain't ever happening in real life. IRL he should be able to take quite a few of her best punches, while one good shot from him should put her down or at least severely injure her to the point where she can no longer fight effectively, after which the fight would end quickly. In any grappling situation she should be overwhelmed immediately by his greater strength, while he may be able to muscle his way out of any hold she attempts. It's really an almost insurmountable advantage to be a male fighting a female, assuming both are "elite" level combatants.

I'm not saying that a woman couldn't ever beat such a hypothetical elite male agent, but it wouldn't be in direct hand-to-hand combat. I'd be more likely to believe that he'd just never see her and the killing blow would be a bullet from cover. Although that's pretty damn elite too if you think about it

 

[SP33Demon]

God damnit! No one in the military is talking about creating all female Spec Ops units. A team is a team. They train together so that they operate cohesively and effectively.

A female Soldier is just as capable as a male when it comes time to squeeze the fucking trigger, wear NVGs, parachute, fast rope, and carry a combat load. They do it every day in our modern military, just not in all roles.

Women present a unique capability in elite units that operate in certain cultures. Having them as part of the team is already being done, read up on Female Engagement Teams. I've sent two females to participate in such teams from my unit.

Stop thinking that all Spec Ops missions are like the shit you play on your PS4 or that they're like some action movie. That's not how most operations happen. Fuck, read a book or two once in a while.

You must have a reading problem, if none of those tasks require elite strength then fine. Fuck, go pick up a dumbbell or two once in a while and stop posting.

 

[SagaLore]

Personally I think this is a mistake. They already let woman on subs and I said on another forum years ago how that was a bad idea. Now we have this: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/1...n-submarine-shower-scandal/?intcmp=latestnews

Or, I dunno, not let men on subs who would do that? If they're that kind of person, I don't trust them to protect our country.

 

[tortoise]

Course duration comparison:

Army Ranger 9 weeks

Navy SEAL 61 weeks (just to earn the Trident)
8 prep, 24 BUDS, 3 jump, 26 qualification

 

[ImpulsE69]

As long as they don't start letting women vote or run for president I don't care what they do.

 

[McLovin]

Where the hell is the OP? He just bailed out on the thread? He's a bigger pussy than those females that want to get into the SEALs!

His avatar is missing now. Isn't that a sign of a short term vacation or something?

 

[datalink7]

Women can be formidable compared to the avg cough potato, but at the elite level it doesn't compare to men. Imagine if the elite "top Israel women soldiers" had to fight our elite 75th Ranger Regiment (all male) in hand to hand combat. Can you tell me with a straight face that the women would win? If so, then you believe that women and men are physically equal in strength which is false. I see a lot of people saying "this woman could beat you up" but that's comparing apples to oranges - in war it's your best vs their best. All elite physical sports separate competitive men and women; the military are fools if they allow women into positions where elite strength is required. It could be very possible that certain non-elite Ranger units do not require elite strength, and if so then that's fine.

I guess it's lucky then that there is no mission we do that requires massed hand to hand combat.

Certain females will be able to achieve the standards to accomplish everything required of a Ranger. And there is nothing wrong allowing those females into those units.

 

[Phanuel]

I guess it's lucky then that there is no mission we do that requires massed hand to hand combat.

No, but plenty of missions require humping 80lbs+ of gear over mountains. Women aren't going to be able to do that anywhere near as well as men.

 

[Homerboy]

No, but plenty of missions require humping 80lbs+ of gear over mountains. Women aren't going to be able to do that anywhere near as well as men.

I bet she (and many others) can do it better than most men in the world.

 

[RPD]

Everyone saying well would a woman passing the test beat a man that passed the test?

Why do we even fool ourselves by having the damn test? Did they pass or fail is the only thing I care about.

 

[MarkXIX]

I do know what I am talking about. But since you're a MP (oh my!) you certainly know more. Except you stay on big ass bases, don't try to deny it. You have vehicles. You're also National Guard... I mean, c'mon.

The fact is aside from very few, females are not strong enough. It also would create a logistical nightmare, and disrupt the very careful balance of a team or small unit. Again this is not for mainstream military, but my opinion on small tactical teams and squads that are inserted into enemy territory.

That is not a slight on women, it is just facts. Why aren't the same people wanting this clamoring for males and females to compete in track&field or any other sport? Because men ARE faster and stronger on the whole. I believe women can do some things better than men, and men do some things better than women. We're different, people just need to get over it.

Just because some women in your guard unit can do whatever it is you do on training, does not mean that is universal in every branch and every circumstance.



I'm aware of her, what "point" are you trying to prove? You just went off on an ignorant rant with all caps and subject spelling of words in your previous post.

You clearly don't understand our doctrine or our mission. MPs are some of the most deployed forces in the world. The Army Reserve makes up the majority of the Military Police Corps. You see us on the large bases because we secure those too. We are there when units arrive, we are there after they leave. You simply don't understand our mission and our OPTEMPO, and that's fine, neither do most others.

The National Guard don't have substantial numbers of Military Police by the way, there's this law on the books called Posse Comitatus, not to mention the Title 10 and Title 32 laws. But keep acting like you know, it briefs well to people on the Internet. While we're at it, if you KNOW like you say you do, go right on ahead and disclose your background like I have so I can KNOW you're full of shit.

Also, who gives a fuck how many females are strong enough? How does that enter into the discussion when two have clearly met that standard of being "strong enough".

Also, can we stop with using this "elite" word, please? It's a made up word in this discussion. It's a media word, not a doctrinal military term. There is no standard in the military in any law, policy, or regulation that specifies someone must be "elite" to be in a certain role. It's a bullshit, weasel word in this case like when racist assholes want to say that a black man "speaks well" to try to sound accepting of their presence in their white washed world. "Oh, she's okay to do that role since she's 'elite' now."

 

[Phanuel]

I bet she (and many others) can do it better than most men in the world.

Do you understand the level of the straw man you're constructing here?

A women at an elite level of physical fitness vs an assumed population of couch warriors?

How many of these women are there? How much do they weigh and what is their level of muscle development? I'll bet you a moderately trained male is well ahead of her in raw strength and endurance. Nevermind someone who has made it through BUDS.

If you don't understand why this comparison is completely illogical nothing will sway you. Women will never match up to an equally trained male. It's basic biology and chemistry. Testosterone is a hell of a thing.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/18/women-seals-greenert-losey-buds/31943243/

Personally I think this is a mistake. They already let woman on subs and I said on another forum years ago how that was a bad idea. Now we have this: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/1...n-submarine-shower-scandal/?intcmp=latestnews

Lets look at the facts: Men have always been the hunter gatherers. Woman were the nurturers, care takers and food preppers. Since Cane & Able men have been the fighters and killers. The ones to conquer foreign lands. We are wired differently and have a different frame.

I'm 6 foot 330 pounds. Is a woman going to be able to over power me? Even if they know marshal arts that doesn't mean anything. 12 year olds know marshal arts, does that mean they can kick my ass? LOL! Fact is if I catch her size 8 foot and she lands on the ground I could apply my size 12 and all my weight to the throat and kill her. Fact is you aren't Van Damme, Chuck Norris or Steven Seagal. No amount of traing is going to make you over power a man. Fact is when I'm hulling that log up a hill in BUDS you will more than likely slow me down and piss me off. In BUDS it's a team effort.

Now in combat and I'm fire fight with ISIS, Boko Haram or Al Qaeda do I need to yell across the battlefield and say, "HOLD UP! SHE HAS TO CHANGE HER TAMPON!" Then if I get injured will she be able to pull my ass out of there to the LZ?

Stay the fuck at home! 😡

so because you're a fatass, you're angry at women who can clearly kick your ass without breaking a sweat?

"I'm fire fight with ISIS..."