National Review takes on Trump Supporters

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Sure, keep up the false dichotomy. Saying help shouldn't be open-ended in scope or duration is exactly the same thing as saying "nobody benefits". That's not really the question, we already know the recipients of aid benefit as that's kind of the point. You seem to forget the rest of us who provide that benefit from our own pockets have rights and a vote also.

Why shouldn't help be open ended when the sacred Jerb Creators offer no viable alternatives?

No jobs in the inner city? That's because blacks are lazy good for nothings, obviously.

No jobs in small town America? That's because White people are just as fucked up & lazy, right?

Everybody's useless who's not lucky enough to be successful, so fuck 'em all.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
Perhaps, I have a different view on this issue due to where I live and who I know. For example, my brother's fiancee is from Eastern Kentucky. Her parents are very bad off, but her and her siblings have moved away. They went to college with the help of the "welfare apparatus" and one is now working in banking while the other is a successful writer. Their community is constantly getting smaller and smaller due to people leaving, being educated, and assimilating into other communities.

In my area we had a coal boom in the 50's-80's. IL has high sulfur coal, so it was shut down during the 90's. Other industry came in to fill the void. We now have tire, boat, and bit factories. There aren't as many jobs as there used to be from coal, but the towns shrunk accordingly.

The article is too cut and dry. A few people in Eastern Kentucky aren't the cause of the US's problems. The transition of the US job market from plentiful low skill well paid work to high skilled technical work left many people displaced and many families without the network to transition.

The other issue is you will need less and less Skilled workers as technology marches on. You are seeing this with Attorneys now that expert systems have replaced tons of good paying jobs just doing research.

Unless the birth rate plummets and we get some kind of plague to cull the surplus humans, something will have to pop.

I would say the movie Soylent Green is a good example. Or look at Logans run where anyone over a certain age has to be euthanized.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
The phrase "need to die" was overcooked, but the article has a point about white working class people blaming outsiders - i.e. Washington and/or brown people - for all their troubles. Conservatives have been saying that black people shouldn't blame all their problems on white racism but the truth is that white people - the sort that are Trump supporters - have been blaming their woes on anyone but themselves for a long while.

Bingo!
Although I feel compelled to point out that Trump and his supporters are not conservatives in any traditional sense of the word. Which is why the nation's leading bastion of conservative thought continues to bash Trump and his followers.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
The other issue is you will need less and less Skilled workers as technology marches on. You are seeing this with Attorneys now that expert systems have replaced tons of good paying jobs just doing research.

Unless the birth rate plummets and we get some kind of plague to cull the surplus humans, something will have to pop.

I would say the movie Soylent Green is a good example. Or look at Logans run where anyone over a certain age has to be euthanized.

Nonsense. What we need is what we have always needed. Better infrastructure and a culture which values family and education. With that, and opportunity, people can create their own value.
Also, the issue in your first paragraph is not the direct result of technology, but of the growing aristocratic nature of our intellectual property laws. The IP domain has become like the feudal land systems in medieval Europe, where aristocratic families owned all the lands in hereditary perpetuity.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Nonsense. What we need is what we have always needed. Better infrastructure and a culture which values family and education. With that, and opportunity, people can create their own value.

Be careful Vic, you're starting to sound awfully free market... You can't just have people crating value on their own, we need to make sure it's on the government approved Register of Acceptable Value Creation.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
106
Be careful Vic, you're starting to sound awfully free market... You can't just have people crating value on their own, we need to make sure it's on the government approved Register of Acceptable Value Creation.
:thumbsup:

Will be funny when small biz declines to almost nothing and we are just surviving on gov or big corp cheese.

New research shows that the country’s rate of new business creation, which peaked about decade ago, plunged more than 30 percent during the economic collapse and has been slow to bounce back following the recession. And that’s despite the fact that, over the last few years, the portion of the U.S. population between the ages of 25 and 55 – historically the prime years for starting a business – has been expanding, according to data compiled by the Kauffman Foundation, an entrepreneurship research organization that hosted the event – the group’s annual State of Entrepreneurship symposium – on Wednesday.

Not surprisingly, fewer new businesses means fewer new jobs. Zandi cited Labor Department statistics showing that companies less than one year old contributed 5.2 million jobs in the year ending June 2014, down from the usual 6 million or so they generated in the years leading up to the recession and well off the normal pace of 7 million to 7.5 million jobs a year seen in the 1990’s.

“We’re getting less bang from our fast-growing companies,” said Wendy Guillies, Kauffman’s acting president. Echoing Zandi, she added: “I know the headlines look good, but when you dig a little deeper, something’s not quite right.”

It gets worse. While the rate of business formation has slowed, the pace of business closures, which had held steady over the previous decade, started to ascend in 2005 and spiked in 2008, according to data compiled by the Brookings Institute. Consequently, business deaths now outpace business births for the first time since researchers started collecting the data in the late 1970’s.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-of-american-entrepreneurship-in-five-charts/

RIP Small business if hillary is elected.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,238
55,791
136
Be careful Vic, you're starting to sound awfully free market... You can't just have people crating value on their own, we need to make sure it's on the government approved Register of Acceptable Value Creation.

You realize what he said is could easily fit within the ideology of modern progressivism, right? Maybe you're a closet progressive after all, friend.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I have empathy for people who feel like their life is out of control because in the last decade or two they've had to concede more and more at their jobs or lose them completely due to increasing competition from random pockets of the world they never knew existed.

But... free trade is a fact of life. We played the protectionism game up here in Canada for decades and it just doesn't work. Companies take advantage of the fact that they don't have to compete and get fat and lazy on substandard products and services as the rest of the world pulls even and then ahead. Then you're even worse off and now you have to fight the battle of getting free trade laws passed again to try to catch up.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
You realize what he said is could easily fit within the ideology of modern progressivism, right? Maybe you're a closet progressive after all, friend.

When you realize that things aren't as black and white as you'd like to believe they are, we'll get somewhere.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Be careful Vic, you're starting to sound awfully free market... You can't just have people crating value on their own, we need to make sure it's on the government approved Register of Acceptable Value Creation.
I have always promoted a free market philosophy in all the time I have been posting here. Always.
The only areas where I tend to disagree with hardcore libertarians on markets is that I believe that it should be just as much a crime to rob someone with a pen as it is with a gun, that publicly-owned corporations tend to make sense in industries that are inherently monopolistic (like utilities), and that certain social safety nets are acceptable in areas where it would cost the public more if they didn't exist (for example: welfare and food stamps tend to reduce crime, and social security prevents people from not saving for retirement and then burdening society in their elder years).
Those exceptions are purely pragmatic. Working in banking, I have had repeated first hand experience with how less-than-ethical persons can and will cheat any system if given the chance.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
That's a boatload of 'WTF crazy' right there. The Repub establishment is in full melt-down mode. Good riddance!

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
I remember when months ago Paul Krugman noted that while conservatives were calling Trump the destruction of the Republican Party, irresponsible, an ignoramus, mentally unbalanced, totally unsuited to the presidency, etc, that as soon as it came down to him vs. a Democrat the vast majority of them would suddenly decide that Trump wasn't so bad after all.

Totally intellectually bankrupt, craven pieces of shit, haha.

Are you saying that the conservative establishment, which made the statements you list above, is now turning to embrace Trump?

If so, I'm hearing the opposite. Since Trump won last night I'm hearing those conservative establishment types are considering a 3rd party bid. Hah, they've lost their minds.

Fern
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Bingo!
Although I feel compelled to point out that Trump and his supporters are not conservatives in any traditional sense of the word. Which is why the nation's leading bastion of conservative thought continues to bash Trump and his followers.

what is a traditional conservative?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Are you saying that the conservative establishment, which made the statements you list above, is now turning to embrace Trump?

If so, I'm hearing the opposite. Since Trump won last night I'm hearing those conservative establishment types are considering a 3rd party bid. Hah, they've lost their minds.

Fern

Sheldon Adelson is turning the ship around.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,238
55,791
136
Are you saying that the conservative establishment, which made the statements you list above, is now turning to embrace Trump?

If so, I'm hearing the opposite. Since Trump won last night I'm hearing those conservative establishment types are considering a 3rd party bid. Hah, they've lost their minds.

Fern

Yes they are.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,915
6,792
126
Self hate always results in the demonization of others. It is the outer face of the inner disease. There is only one thing that creates our ugly world and it is our hate for ourselves.