Originally posted by: XMan
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: XMan
If Ron Paul weren't a pacifist I'd give him strong consideration as well.
You need to learn the difference between defense and offense, security and empire, punching a mugger and being a mugger - between pacifism and opposing empire.
I'm a pacifist to the extent that pacifism requires appreciating the great harm violence does more than most recognize it today, and being cnservative in using force - rather than the ego-based casual call for its use against others by those far and safe from the consequences in a bubble called America, a bubble with a tiny ding called '9/11'. I'm not a pacifist where our 'real' defense needs are involved.
I'm not a Ron Paul supporter beyond some narrow truth-telling he does regarding the war in Iraq, our debt, and a few other things.
I don't think I'm ever going to learn any of those things, because our viewpoints are diametrically opposed. You see the United States as an empire-builder; I do not. I don't see much common ground between those two positions.
You don't have to agree with any particular view to understand the two sides.
If someone in Japan had persuaded the government not to launch Pearl Harbor, you wouldn't know he was a pacifist - and Ron Paul opposing the Iraq war doesn't make him a pacifist, it makes him someone who supports war being more limited to legitimate self defense, it means he's against illegal, aggressive war.
I don't see the United States 'as an empire builder'; I see it as the militarily most powerful nation in the world, and one that makes some decisions that are imperialistic, in varying manner and degree, and some that are not. If you disagree that the US acts to build empire to some degree, with a broad meaning of empire, including other forms of domination, exploitation, expropriation than the traditional occupation, then we do disagree, and it's hard to see how you could reach such an obviously wrong position.
It's tempting to have you injure yourself a bit by reading a book such as Michael Parenti's 'Against Empire'.
Anyway, your characterization of Ron Paul as a pacifist is simply unreasonable, wrong, spin. And I say that as someone who doesn't see pacifist as a dirty word, for what I understand it to mean, which is not the same thing that it's commonly misunderstood (IMO) to mean, where Hitler would have been allowed to conquer the world.
