National ID card program

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The social security card was originally just that, a card that was used to distribute social security. Now it's required for just about everything.

it is?! besides filling out the forms for a new job, i can't remember the last time I was ever asked for my SS card.

never had a credit card or a loan have you?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Having to prove your identity everywhere you go is not something a free man does. It's something a slave does.

You have a problem with providing proper identification for boarding an airplane, entering a nuclear facility, et al?

Perhaps you've missed the last 6 years...

And I agree that biometrics are necessary. A simple card just isn't good enough.

Identification of the public is a WORTHLESS security measure, for the simple reason that the bar for "authorized access" is so low. Proper ID systems are vital for defense of sensitive targets with restricted access, but that does not translate into areas where there is NON-restricted access. It is a fallacy to think that if only we knew who everyone was, we could somehow pick out the bad guys from the crowd. It doesn't work that way, if only because we usually don't know the bad guys' name in advance...especially when it comes to terrorism. Good ID systems work for, say, granting access to the CIA campus because the pool of people possessing access is very low, and everyone who has an ID has been investigated and is a known "good guy" so far as the government knows. ID systems do not work at airports because EVERYONE has access, and because possessing an ID card says NOTHING about the person who holds the card.

"Real" identification is the police state answer to security, and it's popular because it's easy and seems to most people like it should help. But it's smoke and mirrors, there is nothing about having a "post-9/11" mindset that means you have to fall for stupid stuff as long as someone slaps a "security" sticker on it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The social security card was originally just that, a card that was used to distribute social security. Now it's required for just about everything.

it is?! besides filling out the forms for a new job, i can't remember the last time I was ever asked for my SS card.

never had a credit card or a loan have you?

I've had plenty of both, including several cars, a house, and at least a dozen CC's over the years - and not once did any lender ever ask me for my SS card. They've asked for a form of ID, sure, but never the SS card specifically.

Like I said, I cannot recall ever using my SS card for anything other than as a List C Document on an I9 Form at a new employer. And, even then, my Certification of Birth Abroad works just as well.

Am I unique in this regard? How could that be the case?!

I made bold the sentence of BoberFett's post that I take issue with. I have personally never seen the SS card as being "required" for anything, let alone "just about everything," as he proclaimed.

?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Having to prove your identity everywhere you go is not something a free man does. It's something a slave does.

:thumbsup:

It has long since been this way, and will continue to grow towards the bigger government as we continue to feed more taxes into the authoritarian machine. The national ID card is merely a uniform and unified method of the enslavement we?ve already placed on ourselves.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: dahunan
And it is you who is foolish enough to believe that those will be the only places it is required.. whatever.. :roll:

Ah, yes, because you have the crystal ball.

Forgive me :laugh:

Of course it would be required elsewhere. Airplanes and Nuclear Facilities are hardly the only places where security is of utmost importance.

The social security card was originally just that, a card that was used to distribute social security. Now it's required for just about everything. Either you're young and naive, or willfully stupid to think that a national ID won't quickly become your traveling papers.

As for what's happened in the past 6 years? Nothing has happened. Six years and not one terrorist attack. So why the sudden need for a national ID? Don't forget that the terrorists all had valid foreign IDs. A national ID will do nothing to promote any kind of "safety."

Bingo. What happens when some Yemeni or Pakistani cell with valid IDs does something? I'd hate to see what the gov't comes up with "for our own safety" after that.

This is faux security at its worst.

 

[jackschmittusa]

I've been asked for my SS# for:

every checking acct I've had

every credit card

the hospital

a clinic

the driver's license bureau

to enter a Federal building to see the IRS

the VA

 

[vhx]

Eh wouldn't this just be easier for someone to do identification fraud? And yes, pretty much agree with everyone in this thread that it's a false sense of security and just another way that everyone loses another freedom.

EDIT: Actually I remember seeing something about this in that zeitgeist, i got bored and put it on youtube if anyone cares.. Text And yes... F*** implanted chips. ;]

 

[babylon5]

What other countries in the world has National ID card program? What are the problems they are having?

 

[SSSnail]

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

 

[Colt45]

I don't see the difference between this and a DL really, other than being a standardized deal.


You guys are scared of authorities asking for papers, not the papers existing. It's two different things.


I don't see people burning DL's and SS cards.
What vital info is this supposed to have the a DL doesnt't?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The social security card was originally just that, a card that was used to distribute social security. Now it's required for just about everything.

it is?! besides filling out the forms for a new job, i can't remember the last time I was ever asked for my SS card.

never had a credit card or a loan have you?

I've had plenty of both, including several cars, a house, and at least a dozen CC's over the years - and not once did any lender ever ask me for my SS card. They've asked for a form of ID, sure, but never the SS card specifically.

Like I said, I cannot recall ever using my SS card for anything other than as a List C Document on an I9 Form at a new employer. And, even then, my Certification of Birth Abroad works just as well.

Am I unique in this regard? How could that be the case?!

I made bold the sentence of BoberFett's post that I take issue with. I have personally never seen the SS card as being "required" for anything, let alone "just about everything," as he proclaimed.

?

Obviously, you live in a world separate from everyone else's. All of us have been asked for our social security number when getting a loan

 

[Vette73]

We already have a national ID its called your passport. I work for the Dep. of State (CA) and after 9/11 passports were the new national ID. Now with travel even to Canada going to requiring a Passports soon we are having to add 800 new passport people this year alone. So all the people afraid of a national ID, I bet you already have one.

Also was it not the "conseratives" on the Sup. Court that said if a cop ask for ID you are required to show it?

 

[Modelworks]

Someone want to explain why it is going to be required for national parks ?
Thats a high security area ?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
I've been asked for my SS# for:

every checking acct I've had

every credit card

the hospital

a clinic

the driver's license bureau

to enter a Federal building to see the IRS

the VA

Yep. I think palehorse is a liar.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
I've been asked for my SS# for:

every checking acct I've had

every credit card

the hospital

a clinic

the driver's license bureau

to enter a Federal building to see the IRS

the VA

When i was in college it was also the number used ti ID me. such as every Paper had to have it, grades were posted with the ID, my llibrary card had it etc (yes i know that it is now against the law now).

Also i have seen it on applications for phone, gas (heating) etc.



I am against the national ID. I have to agree that requiring it for Federal places and airports is just a start. where is going to lead? not sure. don't think it will be as bad as some think. but it is going to far worse then most think it will.

 

[Nerva]

China has a national ID program.... though that thing is so easy to fake. no bar code to scan so it doesn't store any information... its paper with plastic lamination.

but still the idea is the same, how to easily track the population. i suppose it's necessary to a certain point, and the just need to be able to see the line and not cross it.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: 3cho
China has a national ID program.... though that thing is so easy to fake. no bar code to scan so it doesn't store any information... its paper with plastic lamination.

but still the idea is the same, how to easily track the population. i suppose it's necessary to a certain point, and the just need to be able to see the line and not cross it.

I'm just brainstorming, but perhaps it's not so much a method of direct control as it is a method of indirect control. Maybe the presence of the device scares more people into being obedient?

You know how governments like to use fear as a weapon against their own people.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
I've been asked for my SS# for:

every checking acct I've had

every credit card

the hospital

a clinic

the driver's license bureau

to enter a Federal building to see the IRS

the VA

Yep. I think palehorse is a liar.

Nah, he just fudged by saying "SS card specifically" when he knew that what was meant was the SSN. To be fair though, you did say "card" in the post he replied to, but I think most everyone understands that the ID is the number itself, not the card.

It's interesting IMO to see in this thread how this argument breaks down on partisan lines. I think it is extremely short-sighted to see a National ID as something that would end at immigration. At the same time, it seems interesting that the usual "nanny staters" are opposed to this. How do they propose then to have their big government programs implemented fairly and to everyone if they can't be tracked through a national ID system?

 

[piasabird]

I cant wait. An ID Card you have to pay $250.00 to obtain and only lasts 12 months.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The social security card was originally just that, a card that was used to distribute social security. Now it's required for just about everything.

it is?! besides filling out the forms for a new job, i can't remember the last time I was ever asked for my SS card.

never had a credit card or a loan have you?

I've had plenty of both, including several cars, a house, and at least a dozen CC's over the years - and not once did any lender ever ask me for my SS card. They've asked for a form of ID, sure, but never the SS card specifically.

Like I said, I cannot recall ever using my SS card for anything other than as a List C Document on an I9 Form at a new employer. And, even then, my Certification of Birth Abroad works just as well.

Am I unique in this regard? How could that be the case?!

I made bold the sentence of BoberFett's post that I take issue with. I have personally never seen the SS card as being "required" for anything, let alone "just about everything," as he proclaimed.

?

Obviously, you live in a world separate from everyone else's. All of us have been asked for our social security number when getting a loan

Nobody said anything about the number... it was the card itself we were discussing.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
I've been asked for my SS# for:

every checking acct I've had

every credit card

the hospital

a clinic

the driver's license bureau

to enter a Federal building to see the IRS

the VA

Yep. I think palehorse is a liar.

Nah, he just fudged by saying "SS card specifically" when he knew that what was meant was the SSN. To be fair though, you did say "card" in the post he replied to, but I think most everyone understands that the ID is the number itself, not the card.

It's interesting IMO to see in this thread how this argument breaks down on partisan lines. I think it is extremely short-sighted to see a National ID as something that would end at immigration. At the same time, it seems interesting that the usual "nanny staters" are opposed to this. How do they propose then to have their big government programs implemented fairly and to everyone if they can't be tracked through a national ID system?

Palehorse isn't a liar, he's a damn liar.

Which nanny staters are you speaking of? I don't understand how a pro-nanny state person would disapprove of a tracking system such as a national ID card. Who are you talking about?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Nobody said anything about the number... it was the card itself we were discussing.

Because as we all know there's no connection between the card and number. :roll:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Nobody said anything about the number... it was the card itself we were discussing.

Because as we all know there's no connection between the card and number. :roll:

So then, what is your issue with instituting a new National ID card, if it's nothing more than the same system we already have - but with added (biometric) countermeasures against forgery?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Nobody said anything about the number... it was the card itself we were discussing.

Because as we all know there's no connection between the card and number. :roll:

So then, what is your issue with instituting a new National ID card, if it's nothing more than the same system we already have - but with added (biometric) countermeasures against forgery?

No, it will have personal information, biometrics, and be required for more tasks than you need your SS card (or number smartass) for.

Personally, the entire idea of an all-inclusive identity card with my personal information and my biometrics on it is something I would never, EVER go for. I do not want my fingerprint or DNA on file, nor do I want my file available on a card. Lastly, I would never willingly give either of these things to anyone in order to complete any task. Whether it's buying a car, traveling to Hawaii, or buying a gun. Nobody needs to know, period, and nobody along the line needs to know anything about me aside from my name and the fact that I had enough money to do whatever it was that I did.

Do you like overbearing authoritarian figures, or are you just completely and totally stupid?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Nobody said anything about the number... it was the card itself we were discussing.

Because as we all know there's no connection between the card and number. :roll:

So then, what is your issue with instituting a new National ID card, if it's nothing more than the same system we already have - but with added (biometric) countermeasures against forgery?

My issue is that I don't like the current use of the SSN as an all-encompassing tracking number. I don't want to be a part of some giant government database tracking my every purchase and every movement, which is what a national ID will eventually become.