National health insurance...yes ? No? Why?

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BoberFett
What the fvck does that have anything to do with wages you moron?

I still haven't seen you link to the results of a study that shows the breakdown of wages across America and the percentage of primary jobs that pay less than $10/hr and have no medical benefits.

Until you provide such proof, you're a liar.

Just read all the links that already exists in the threads.

In fact "Internet Publishing" was listed in an article as the number one job now and has no health benefits.

Of course you are proud of this.

I have to read ALL the links in ALL the threads to find the one piece of information I want you to provide? What's the matter? Have no proof and want me to take your misinformation at face value? Not gonna happen, liar.

Hey, here's something for you. Everyone in the US is wealthy except you Dave, and all the news is being doctored to drive you mad. I have proof, and it's on a web site somewhere. All you have to do is check out all the sites. :roll:

 

[DarkEscaflowne2]

How bout this:

Why don't we have a national system where you can opt inand pay for it through taxes and get national insurance and let anyone else that doesn't want it not get it. Rules would be you could only opt in every 5 years or if you are below 18. This way those that are compashonate can opt in even if they really don't need it like the young. At the same time stingy cheap people can opt out and be screwed. I mean I would love to hear the morons from (name anywhere in a bush lovin state) c omplaining how he is an idiot. It would be great to see some rednecks and idiots to learn a lesson in making a better choice than themselves.

 

[5LiterMustang]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Oh come on, that's over $30 hr, most of the Country is mired in $10 hr or less jobs. :roll:

This is the stupidest statement I've ever heard...

57k/yr is about 28/hr NOT 30...and FURTHERMORE half of the country is mired it what would be the equivelent to a 16/hr job or less. The other half is OVER 16/hr. The MEDIAN household income in the US is 43,xxx/yr...the AVERAGE is 58,xxx/yr...the median per capita income is 35,xxx/yr thats hardly 10 dollars an hour...

 

[imported_Condor]

NO! Lets actually examine and fix the real problem for once. Lets analyse the costs of health care instead of simply trying to move it to another pocket. Lets ask questions like why we get multiple bills for any procedure, why Q tips cost three times retail when billed by a hospital, etc. Lets get some real answers for a real solution!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang

Originally posted by: chambersc
yes, noble effort, I'd be willing to be pay a tax to help out the nation. Isn't that what patriotism is about?

a tax to help the nation, as in military spendingand education, absolutely, for health insurance? I dont think its worth it, the big problem is that health insurance isolated the consumer from paying the bill, and ridiculous lawsuits help to drive up costs. I think if more insurance companies required a higher co pay or 3k deductible each year before they'd pay then we'd have lower health care costs because less people would go to the dr. perfect example of this, when Iw as on a cruise after graduating high school I had to take my brother to see the on board dr. There were 9 people in the waiting room, the nurse came out and got the first person and said "we dont accept insurance here, its cash, check or credit or you dont get seen unless its an emergency" so then I asked, "you mean our insurance wont cover us?" She said no we dont accept insurance...needless to say only one person felt it was worth paying for their services. The point is people go to the dr when they dont really have to, and dr's can charge ridiculous amounts for services rendered because we the consumers never have to directly pay the bill.

Exactly! Lets not just start another bureaucratic money sink!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I'd be in favor of a national major medical system. You get cancer or some other major disease/illness then you're covered. However the right to see a doctor every time you stub your toe or have a sniffle should be limited to secondary coverage that could be payed for by your employer as a benefit, or personally.

Insurance is all about spreading risk, and you can't spread it any further than everybody in the country.

good point, i dont really have anything against government covering truly major medical costs, the problem is where do they draw the line? how far will it recede?

How about manageing risk instead of simply spreading it?

 

[zebano]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Privatizing health care is defenetly cheaper than paying companies to do it. Weeds out alot of corruption.

You have it backwards. Private (non-government) healthcare encourages competition and weeds out corruption. Have you ever tried dealing with the IRS? or any government official? SLowest most unresponsive bunch of people around.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Yep, just come on down to any of the States here in the South.

The drive down in wages is catching up to the North too especially in Ohio, Pa and Michigan.

I said proof, not personal anecdotes, scumbag.

Yep, I may be a scumbag but the proof is in the writing:

8-8-2005 Los Angeles leads nation in jobs, New York leads in wages

LOS ANGELES If you're looking for work, a new report suggests you should head West. But if you want to raise your salary, then you'll want to head East.

When it comes to salaries, those in Manhattan earn an average of 73-thousand dollars a year, the highest wages among the most populous counties.

The lowest pay rate is in Riverside County, California, east of Los Angeles, where salaries average 29-thousand dollars per year.
===============================================
Bahahahaha and with California housing costs through the roof, that has to hurt. :laugh:

Geez, that hardly proves anything. You have to make 90 bucks an hour just to live in NYC. Fifty bucks an hour will buy what in CA? You have to look at the cost of living if you are going to talk pay levels. How much does it cost to own a three bedroom brick in Gonzales, La Dave? How much to buy breakfast? A pound of shrimp or beef? Liberals! You guys bnever look at the whole equation!

 

[zendari]

Text

Generic Drugs, the Price Is Right in U.S.
Plain-label medications can be 78% costlier in Canada, a survey finds. Many Americans are unaware of the savings potential at home.

U.S. consumers may be wasting more than $100 million a year on Canadian generics, according to one Canadian analyst, although no firm figures exist on how much Americans are overpaying.

Generic drugs are the therapeutic equivalent of brand-name medications, at about a quarter of the cost. Generic versions can be marketed after the patent protection on a brand-name drug expires.

Americans know that brand-name drugs are cheaper in Canada because the government controls prices there. But many don't realize that Canadian policies have the opposite effect on prices for generic drugs.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
What the fvck does that have anything to do with wages you moron?

I still haven't seen you link to the results of a study that shows the breakdown of wages across America and the percentage of primary jobs that pay less than $10/hr and have no medical benefits.

Until you provide such proof, you're a liar.

If he does link to what you ask for, it will still prove nothing without looking at purchaseing power. A dollar here in Alabama is much more money in goods and services than it is in Washington, DC. My daughter moved back here and figures that without her 700 a month rent costa, she can have a much better quality of life here than there. There are several real estatge sites that do an automatic comparison by zip code if any one is really interested in learning instead of simply expounding. No, I won't providde the links. Google on "cost of living" and sort through the picks.

 

[5LiterMustang]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BoberFett
What the fvck does that have anything to do with wages you moron?

I still haven't seen you link to the results of a study that shows the breakdown of wages across America and the percentage of primary jobs that pay less than $10/hr and have no medical benefits.

Until you provide such proof, you're a liar.

If he does link to what you ask for, it will still prove nothing without looking at purchaseing power. A dollar here in Alabama is much more money in goods and services than it is in Washington, DC. My daughter moved back here and figures that without her 700 a month rent costa, she can have a much better quality of life here than there. There are several real estatge sites that do an automatic comparison by zip code if any one is really interested in learning instead of simply expounding. No, I won't providde the links. Google on "cost of living" and sort through the picks.

He can't provide the link because it doesn't exist...I already posted earnings stats for the United States...

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Condor
NO! Lets actually examine and fix the real problem for once. Lets analyse the costs of health care instead of simply trying to move it to another pocket. Lets ask questions like why we get multiple bills for any procedure, why Q tips cost three times retail when billed by a hospital, etc. Lets get some real answers for a real solution!

:Q I agree with Condor.

Can't...

Be...

Possible....!!! :laugh:

But seriously,

100% Universal Healthcare is not the solution and obviously the way things are going now isn't working.

Let's use the power of government not as a check-writing machine, but a "pooler" for small businesses and individual insurers. Let's reduce the financial stress on small businesses by lowering premium costs.

For example:

Company A pays $40/week (numbers are not meant to be accurate, just an example) per employee in health benefits.

Company B pays $50/week/employee for health benefits.

Register both companies together in a "pool" and each will pay $35/week/employee.


Now multiply that by tens of thousands and see how low that number goes and how little employees will have to pay out of pocket.

Also, like Condor alluded to, let's completely audit how these hospitals are billing the government and insurance companies. $10 for an aspirin is f'in ridiculous.

Also, let's reduce frivilous lawsuits in some way that doesn't infringe on the rights of legitimate lawsuits from moving forward. What exact solution to that, I'm not sure. I don't think reward caps are needed if this is done. (example: suing for millions over spilling hot coffee is frivilous).

Ok, enough rambling, just some thoughts I'd put out there.

 

[BoberFett]

There are already small business health insurance groups. Unfortunately they do little for those who are unemployed or who have jobs that don't offer insurance.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There are already small business health insurance groups.

Unfortunately they do little for those who are unemployed or who have jobs that don't offer insurance.

No, you don't say 😕

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There are already small business health insurance groups.

Unfortunately they do little for those who are unemployed or who have jobs that don't offer insurance.

No, you don't say 😕

Who asked you, fvcktard? I was repying to Darkhawk.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There are already small business health insurance groups. Unfortunately they do little for those who are unemployed or who have jobs that don't offer insurance.

I agree, that part requires another solution and there are some SB HI groups out there, but not to the size and degree in which they could be by having the Federal Gov't pool all of them together (those that volunteer to do so) and having insurance companies bid on the "contract". Sort of having volume pricing. 😉

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There are already small business health insurance groups. Unfortunately they do little for those who are unemployed or who have jobs that don't offer insurance.

I agree, that part requires another solution and there are some SB HI groups out there, but not to the size and degree in which they could be by having the Federal Gov't pool all of them together (those that volunteer to do so) and having insurance companies bid on the "contract". Sort of having volume pricing. 😉

Having all small business health insurance bid on as a government contract sounds ripe for cronyism. Maybe Halliburton will get in the health insurance game? 😉

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There are already small business health insurance groups. Unfortunately they do little for those who are unemployed or who have jobs that don't offer insurance.

I agree, that part requires another solution and there are some SB HI groups out there, but not to the size and degree in which they could be by having the Federal Gov't pool all of them together (those that volunteer to do so) and having insurance companies bid on the "contract". Sort of having volume pricing. 😉

Having all small business health insurance bid on as a government contract sounds ripe for cronyism. Maybe Halliburton will get in the health insurance game? 😉

The contract wouldn't be with the government per se. Maybe a series of companies could put together different packages with different levels of coverage and then let the individual decide which one to go with. Make the bidding open to all insurers.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: chambersc
yes, noble effort, I'd be willing to be pay a tax to help out the nation. Isn't that what patriotism is about?

No, it's not.

 

[frankie38]

yes. its good for usa to have healthy citizens.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: frankie38
yes. its good for usa to have healthy citizens.

That's rather simplistic. Why is it good?

I'm not saying your wrong, but other than some touchy feely bullsh!t about everyone being happy and frolicking in meadows with bunnies and flowers and rainbows, why is good for the USA to have healthy citizens? If I'm expected to pony up cash, and because my cash equals my time, and there's nothing more valuable to me than my time, I want to know what's in it for me.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: frankie38
yes. its good for usa to have healthy citizens.

And now all you have to do is prove that a nationalized heathcare system will make for healthier citizens.
Good luck with that.

 

[frankie38]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I'm not saying your wrong, but other than some touchy feely bullsh!t about everyone being happy and frolicking in meadows with bunnies and flowers and rainbows, why is good for the USA to have healthy citizens? If I'm expected to pony up cash, and because my cash equals my time, and there's nothing more valuable to me than my time, I want to know what's in it for me.

ok. i agree with your statement. i think it is as simple as less sick days more productivity.
more productivity the more business makes. that in turn is better for economy and stock prices.

now for your bigger issue. how to pay for this. yes. it will be in the form of a tax. how much i dont know. but this tax might replace what you pay for health insurance now.
for those uninsured and do not pay they will be paying too. since its a tax.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: frankie38

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I'm not saying your wrong, but other than some touchy feely bullsh!t about everyone being happy and frolicking in meadows with bunnies and flowers and rainbows, why is good for the USA to have healthy citizens? If I'm expected to pony up cash, and because my cash equals my time, and there's nothing more valuable to me than my time, I want to know what's in it for me.

ok. i agree with your statement. i think it is as simple as less sick days more productivity.
more productivity the more business makes. that in turn is better for economy and stock prices.

now for your bigger issue. how to pay for this. yes. it will be in the form of a tax. how much i dont know. but this tax might replace what you pay for health insurance now.
for those uninsured and do not pay they will be paying too. since its a tax.

And how will they be able to afford the tax if they can't afford insurance now?

 

[frankie38]

Originally posted by: Vic
And now all you have to do is prove that a nationalized heathcare system will make for healthier citizens.
Good luck with that.

it all depends on how me spend the money. right now our healthcare system is primarly focused on treating sick and uhealthy people. how did they get this way? why is there a growing obesity, diabetes, cardiac health, cancer, etc issues.

part of the issue is that our current system does not deal with root causes of problems. we can transplant a heart. but what if we put resources to prevent heart disease.

yes it will be difficult to prove. we have great medical care, thankfullywe have it because we have serious medical issues that require them.