National Guard on the Border?

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Two words: Empty Gesture

Whatever. . .at least it's a start. At least by this action we know that the President acknowledges that there maybe is a problem and he heard us. But I agree it isn't enough. But at least it's a start. We'll see what happens next.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Interesting stat of the day

In 2000, when Clinton was president, 1900 business' were prosecuted for hiring illegals.

In 2004, 3 business' were prosecuted for hiring illegals.

This tells you everything you need to know. The speech tonite is going to be window dressing. The republicans will be hurt with the closing of the border.

One thing it tells me is that the penalties on businesses were obviously not harsh enough and that fining 1900 businesses didn't stop the illegals from coming.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Interesting stat of the day

In 2000, when Clinton was president, 1900 business' were prosecuted for hiring illegals.

In 2004, 3 business' were prosecuted for hiring illegals.

This tells you everything you need to know. The speech tonite is going to be window dressing. The republicans will be hurt with the closing of the border.

I bet a business is more likely to get hit by lightning and burn to the ground than get prosecuted for hiring illegals under Bush.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Interesting stat of the day

In 2000, when Clinton was president, 1900 business' were prosecuted for hiring illegals.

In 2004, 3 business' were prosecuted for hiring illegals.

This tells you everything you need to know. The speech tonite is going to be window dressing. The republicans will be hurt with the closing of the border.

Are we supposed to be impressed Clinton went after the flood waters but left the floodgates open?

 

[Theres]

Bush stop the invasion of Mexican's:laugh:

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Triumph
The guy sitting across from me is in the NG, he just got back a few weeks ago from active duty along the border. His main complaint was not just that we don't have enough people manning the border, but that the border patrol currently there is crippled from doing anything. The amount of hampering that's been placed on them by the PC thugs makes them downright useless. You are not allowed to shoot anyone crossing the border, you are not even allowed to engage your weapon unless you are in a life threatening situation. If someone gets hurt falling off the fence, you have to take them to the hospital - ok not too bad, human compassion and all of that. But you are NOT allowed to wait for them to be released from the hospital to round them up for deportation. The Mexican military actively aids the border jumpers, maybe not by official decree but they can easily be paid off. With so little risk associated with jumping the border (no one can really stop you, hell they even put water fountains up for you in the desert), hell why not cross it?

Yeah - lets just hang oput by the border and shoot some 'Cans'

We'll start shooting the mexi - CANS, then maybe we can shoot some ameri - CANS.

CAN I get a few shots in?

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I think shooting people that cross the border is a bit extreme. This isn't communist Russia.

I will give you that, I'm not really advocating shooting on sight. But you are not even allowed to draw your weapon. You can only yell, "Stop!" and hope that they do. I mean, cops on the street have more leeway than that. If a cop wants you to stop, he draws his gun. But you *can't* do that against people who are borderline invading your country.

I liken this whole debate to a home invasion. It's the same thing, simply on a smaller scale. What if I came into your home, set up shop, demanded that you recognize myself as a member of your home, and insist that you aren't allowed to stop me from bringing more of my friends into your house?

Police are not allowed to shot someone for refusing to stop.

 

[slash196]

I really have no opinion on the issue, but I think it's about damn time that the NATIONAL GUARD started GUARDING the NATION instead of being used as stand-ins for the Army regulars.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: slash196
I really have no opinion on the issue, but I think it's about damn time that the NATIONAL GUARD started GUARDING the NATION instead of being used as stand-ins for the Army regulars.

What I find interesting about that though is the main argument used to support having a standing army at all is the defense of the nation. I mean, if you don't have any military to defend the homeland, you better not be too important strategically or economically. Beyond that, the existence of a military is more questionable. There is a good reason why the DOD is called the Dept. of Defense. The National Guard has existed since 1636, it's the only branch explicitly required by the Constitution.

I agree with your opinion, but I think using the NG as Reg Army filler is symptomatic of the use of the military as a world-wide police force.

 

[Mathlete]

Did President Bush just admit that Master Gunnery Sargent DeMujon(sp?) is an illegal immigrant? Am I the only one that sees a problem with the US Marine Corp not checking the status of or soldiers????

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Mathlete
Did President Bush just admit that Master Gunnery Sargent DeMujon(sp?) is an illegal immigrant? Am I the only one that sees a problem with the US Marine Corp not checking the status of or soldiers????

uhmm. I beleive you can join if you are a illegal. well within reason.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: slash196
I really have no opinion on the issue, but I think it's about damn time that the NATIONAL GUARD started GUARDING the NATION instead of being used as stand-ins for the Army regulars.

i have been trying to find reasons they have not been on the boarder alll along. I thought that was the job they were made for?

what is the argument for them NOT to be there?


oh i agree the millitary has problems. From sending the national guard to fight a lie of a war (should say i was a bush backer at the start of the war, also voted for the ahole) to trying to pick a fight with other nations and ignoring the guy who started the mess (anyone remember bin laden?).

I come from a pro-military family. it saddens me how badly the military is fcked over.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: ericlp
National Guard. Weekend Soldiers ... What? Are we only going to guard the boarder on the weekends?

Aren't most of the troops in Iraq? Who will be fighting the wars??? Should be an interesting speech for boosh as Monday rolls around. I doubt he will have anything useful to say as if he ever had anything to say that made any sense?

do you really still believe that the National Guard and Reserves are "only" weekend warriors? truly?

Originally posted by: tweaker2
might improve with the notion that the guard units whose home states are situated along the "front lines" with mexico would get to defend their hometowns (which, IIRC is supposed to be their primary function) and be permanently exempt from overseas duty.

nothing will ever make them "permanently exempt from overseas duty."

I feel that this is a great mission for Guard troops, and I know many that would love to help out along the border for 4-6month tours. i also feel that we need 10,000 or more to have any hope of locking them down properly...

Don't know... Are you or have you been in the Guard? I use to be in the NG for 8 years... And if they told me I had to gurad a border for more then my time like 3 months out of year I'd say take it and shove it since I had a "REAL" job. I can see going to IRAQ.. Well, I can't really see it ... But now guarding borders? Nah....

That is something they need to hire more (other) people to do. It's not a state of emergency and really shouldn't be a duty of the national guard. But so be it I am not in the program and never will be again. But I'd be pissed as hell after comming back from double tours in Iraq and then told to go guard the border... get real...

 

[BoomerD]

Any one elsw wonder what brought this to the forefront all of a sudden the other month? Illegals have been a growing problem since the last amnesty in 86. Why did this get pushed to the front burner all of a sudden when it's been simmering in the background for so long? I'm thinking that SOMETHING is going on that they are trying to slip by us, while we are distratcted by this...That is right up Karl Rove's alley...I would not put it past them to try something like that...keep us focused on the Illegal Immigration issue, while pulling off something sneaky behind our backs...
Maybe it's because of the spying thing, maybe it's beccause of Iraq, I don't know, but I get the feeling, that tihs is window dressing, and something else is happening that they don't want us to focus on...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: ericlp
National Guard. Weekend Soldiers ... What? Are we only going to guard the boarder on the weekends?

Aren't most of the troops in Iraq? Who will be fighting the wars??? Should be an interesting speech for boosh as Monday rolls around. I doubt he will have anything useful to say as if he ever had anything to say that made any sense?

do you really still believe that the National Guard and Reserves are "only" weekend warriors? truly?

Originally posted by: tweaker2
might improve with the notion that the guard units whose home states are situated along the "front lines" with mexico would get to defend their hometowns (which, IIRC is supposed to be their primary function) and be permanently exempt from overseas duty.

nothing will ever make them "permanently exempt from overseas duty."

I feel that this is a great mission for Guard troops, and I know many that would love to help out along the border for 4-6month tours. i also feel that we need 10,000 or more to have any hope of locking them down properly...

Don't know... Are you or have you been in the Guard? I use to be in the NG for 8 years... And if they told me I had to gurad a border for more then my time like 3 months out of year I'd say take it and shove it since I had a "REAL" job. I can see going to IRAQ.. Well, I can't really see it ... But now guarding borders? Nah....

That is something they need to hire more (other) people to do. It's not a state of emergency and really shouldn't be a duty of the national guard. But so be it I am not in the program and never will be again. But I'd be pissed as hell after comming back from double tours in Iraq and then told to go guard the border... get real...

yes, im in the Guard now, in fact, and have been for many years...

that said, were you a 100% peacetime Guardsman? if so, all i can say to you is that the times have changed, and so has the Guard's role in Federal operations.

I dont think that I'd personally "enjoy" a Border mission very much, but then again, maybe that's because I'm too busy fighting a bigger problem... one in which I have more to contribute than your average Joe. (cocky, i know.. but true nonetheless)

There may be some Guardsman who wouldn't mind the Border duty. 1) it keeps them CONUS, 2) they may be able to have their spouses/families with them, 3) time off can be spent seeing places they may have never been able to see otherwise. 4) they could drink offduty! (lol, that makes a HUGE different for alot of Guardsman that I know...sad but true!)

all in all, for most folks, i'd imagine that it would beat the hell out of a hardship combat tour downrange...

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Any one elsw wonder what brought this to the forefront all of a sudden the other month? Illegals have been a growing problem since the last amnesty in 86. Why did this get pushed to the front burner all of a sudden when it's been simmering in the background for so long? I'm thinking that SOMETHING is going on that they are trying to slip by us, while we are distratcted by this...That is right up Karl Rove's alley...I would not put it past them to try something like that...keep us focused on the Illegal Immigration issue, while pulling off something sneaky behind our backs...
Maybe it's because of the spying thing, maybe it's beccause of Iraq, I don't know, but I get the feeling, that tihs is window dressing, and something else is happening that they don't want us to focus on...

I wonder that true, but it's also true of most issues like this. They just sort of pop up due to a combination of interest, media coverage, political motivations, and current events. But irregardless, it's an issue that I actually care about, and I hope and pray that something worthwhile actually comes out of all of this.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I believe that it was nothing more than a song and dance meant to please everybody and it didn't work. 6k NG don't even begin to address the problem especially if they are going to be neutered by not performing a law enforcement role. Stopping people from entering this country illegally is a security issue and those people on the border should be allowed to enforce the law and guarrantee our security as a nation. I really don't care what Mexico thinks since they've got some of the harshest immigration laws around yet they cry about us wanting to beef up our border security. They don't tolerate people jumping their southern border and neither should we. This has nothing to do with race and it has everything to do with national security. I say to those who try to put a racial spin to this that the race card doesn't work anymore.