National Budget simulation: What would you do?

[lordtyranus]

The site is about a year old, but here it is:

http://www.budgetsim.org/nbs/

How would you personally structure our economy? Certainly, our national budget is nowhere near as simple as this site makes it seem. But I feel that government spending is a huge issue, and that we have 2 candidates who will do nothing to fix it.

The site is pretty self explanatory.

I started this in another thread that had descended into drivel, so I moved it here.

Here is my budget:

Anyway, here you go:
Cut Military research and development 70%.
Cut international aid 70%.
Cut space flight 70%, NSF 30%.
Increased energy supply conservation 20%.
Cut recreational and Park resources 20%.
Cut pollution control 20%.
Cut drug rehab 50%.
Cut all government health spending 30%. Mental Health 50%.
Cut social welfare 30%, except for child care.
Cut SS benefits and premiums 30%.
Repealed Bush tax cuts.
Implement a tax on bonds.
Cut corporate tax breaks 20%.
Institute a federal sales tax to cover the 30% lost in the SS cut.


Net Result: suprlus of $315 billion.

Personally, I am quite solid about everything here but the pollution cut. I don't believe in helping other countries when we have our own problems. I don't believe in the useless space program. I don't believe in this ridiculous government health/welfare spending, doling out freebies to poor and old people who have long passed their days of usefulness. I support any social welfare for children, by the time you are adult you should act like one. I have repealed the Bush tax cuts and taxed bonds and corporations.


Please keep any Bush bashing or partisanship elsewhere.

 

[conjur]

Budget Totals
Old budget was $3350.779 billion
($2368.852 billion in spending, $981.927 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
New budget is $2929.23 billion
($2130.13 billion in spending, $799.1 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

You have cut the deficit by $421.55 billion.
Your new deficit is $-64.54 billion. (Surplus)


================================


Spending ($2130.13 billion: cut $238.71 billion)
$362.95 billion .... Military Spending Cut $90.72 bil. from base of $453.684 bil.(-20%)
$50 billion ........ Iraq War (No Change)
$97.63 billion ..... Veterans and Military Retirement (No Change)
$10.27 billion ..... International affairs Cut $23.96 bil. from base of $34.236 bil.(-70%)
$26.75 billion ..... General science, space, and technology Increased $4.46 bil. from base of $22.291 bil.( 20%)
$1.05 billion ...... Non-Defense Energy Spending Increased $0.09 bil. from base of $.957 bil.( 10%)
$38 billion ........ Natural resources and environment Increased $6.34 bil. from base of $31.665 bil.( 20%)
$20.12 billion ..... Agriculture (No Change)
$74.96 billion ..... Transportation Increased $6.82 bil. from base of $68.144 bil.( 10%)
$20.63 billion ..... Community and regional development Increased $1.87 bil. from base of $18.757 bil.( 10%)
$43.61 billion ..... Education, training, employment, and social services Cut $43.59 bil. from base of $87.211 bil.(-50%)
$194.8 billion ..... Non-Medicare Health Spending Cut $48.69 bil. from base of $243.501 bil.(-20%)
$243.41 billion .... Medicare Cut $27.03 bil. from base of $270.451 bil.(-10%)
$80.34 billion ..... Non-SS Retirement & Unemployment Compensation Cut $20.07 bil. from base of $100.420 bil.(-20%)
$161.53 billion .... Social Welfare Spending Cut $40.37 bil. from base of $201.913 bil.(-20%)
$545.79 billion .... Social security Increased $49.62 bil. from base of $496.174 bil.( 10%)
$33.28 billion ..... Administration of justice Cut $8.31 bil. from base of $41.603 bil.(-20%)
$20.34 billion ..... General government administration Cut $5.07 bil. from base of $25.424 bil.(-20%)
$156.26 billion .... Net interest (No Change)
$-59.31 billion .... Undistributed offsetting receipts (No Change)
$7.72 billion ...... Commerce Promotion (No Change)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures ($799.1 billion: cut $182.82 billion)
$0 billion ......... 2001 Tax Cut Cut $102.99 bil. from base of $103 bil.(-100%)
$88 billion ........ 2003 Tax Cut Cut $21.99 bil. from base of $110 bil.(-20%)
$55.11 billion ..... Corporate Tax Breaks Cut $13.77 bil. from base of $68.89 bil.(-20%)
$109.29 billion .... Personal Business & Investment Benefits Cut $27.31 bil. from base of $136.61 bil.(-20%)
$155.7 billion ..... Pension & Retirement Deductions (No Change)
$132.18 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance Increased $12.02 bil. from base of $120.161 bil.( 10%)
$176 billion ....... Itemized Deductions Cut $19.54 bil. from base of $195.55 bil.(-10%)
$82.82 billion ..... Other personal tax expenditures Cut $9.19 bil. from base of $92.02 bil.(-10%)

 

[charrison]

Old budget was $3350.779 billion
($2368.852 billion in spending, $981.927 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

New budget is $2993.33 billion
($2072.46 billion in spending, $920.87 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
You have cut the deficit by $357.45 billion.
Your new deficit is $-0.44 billion.


$499.05 billion .... Military Spending
Increased $45.37 bil. from base of $453.684 bil.( 10%)
$50 billion ........ Iraq War (No Change)
$78.11 billion ..... Veterans and Military Retirement
Cut $19.51 bil. from base of $97.634 bil.(-20%)
$27.39 billion ..... International affairs
Cut $6.84 bil. from base of $34.236 bil.(-20%)
$17.83 billion ..... General science, space, and technology
Cut $4.45 bil. from base of $22.291 bil.(-20%)
$0.77 billion ...... Non-Defense Energy Spending
Cut $0.18 bil. from base of $.957 bil.(-20%)
$25.33 billion ..... Natural resources and environment
Cut $6.33 bil. from base of $31.665 bil.(-20%)
$16.1 billion ...... Agriculture
Cut $4.01 bil. from base of $20.121 bil.(-20%)
$54.52 billion ..... Transportation
Cut $13.61 bil. from base of $68.144 bil.(-20%)
$15.01 billion ..... Community and regional development
Cut $3.74 bil. from base of $18.757 bil.(-20%)
$69.77 billion ..... Education, training, employment, and social services
Cut $17.43 bil. from base of $87.211 bil.(-20%)
$194.8 billion ..... Non-Medicare Health Spending
Cut $48.69 bil. from base of $243.501 bil.(-20%)
$216.36 billion .... Medicare
Cut $54.08 bil. from base of $270.451 bil.(-20%)
$80.34 billion ..... Non-SS Retirement & Unemployment Compensation
Cut $20.07 bil. from base of $100.420 bil.(-20%)
$161.53 billion .... Social Welfare Spending
Cut $40.37 bil. from base of $201.913 bil.(-20%)
$396.94 billion .... Social security
Cut $99.22 bil. from base of $496.174 bil.(-20%)
$33.28 billion ..... Administration of justice
Cut $8.31 bil. from base of $41.603 bil.(-20%)
$20.34 billion ..... General government administration
Cut $5.07 bil. from base of $25.424 bil.(-20%)
$156.26 billion .... Net interest (No Change)
$-47.45 billion .... Undistributed offsetting receipts
Increased $11.87 bil. from base of $-59.321 bil.(-20%)
$6.18 billion ...... Commerce Promotion
Cut $1.53 bil. from base of $7.723 bil.(-20%)

Tax Expenditures ($920.87 billion: cut $61.05 billion)

$154.5 billion ..... 2001 Tax Cut
Increased $51.5 bil. from base of $103 bil.( 50%)
$165 billion ....... 2003 Tax Cut
Increased $55 bil. from base of $110 bil.( 50%)
$41.33 billion ..... Corporate Tax Breaks
Cut $27.55 bil. from base of $68.89 bil.(-40%)
$109.29 billion .... Personal Business & Investment Benefits
Cut $27.31 bil. from base of $136.61 bil.(-20%)
$124.56 billion .... Pension & Retirement Deductions
Cut $31.13 bil. from base of $155.696 bil.(-20%)
$96.13 billion ..... Employer-paid Health Insurance
Cut $24.02 bil. from base of $120.161 bil.(-20%)
$156.44 billion .... Itemized Deductions
Cut $39.1 bil. from base of $195.55 bil.(-20%)
$73.62 billion ..... Other personal tax expenditures
Cut $18.39 bil. from base of $92.02 bil.(-20%)


This is a simple game....

 

[ReiAyanami]

Net Result: suprlus of $315 billion.

even after all those cuts, it would take a full 27 years to erase the $8+ trillion deficit, quite frightening how the collective irresponsibility of politicians can be more dangerous than any terrorist.

And the 27 yr figure assumes the economy stays as healthy as it is for the whole time, such drastic cuts would probably collapse our economy into instant recession. but if we don't then in a decade we'll be pushing $10 trillion debt and watch the dollar collapse.

$4 trillion is reasonable and manageable. $10 trillion and the interest payments would crush our children.

 

[lordtyranus]

Net Result: suprlus of $315 billion.

even after all those cuts, it would take a full 27 years to erase the $8+ trillion deficit, quite frightening how the collective irresponsibility of politicians can be more dangerous than any terrorist.

Indeed. Once the Iraq war ends, there's another $100 billion towards the surplus. Over time, I'd probably cut social programs further.

 

[Todd33]

$317.58 billion: Military Spending
$107.4 billion: Veterans and Military Retirement
$37.66 billion: International affairs
$24.52 billion: Science, Space and Technology
$34.83 billion: Natural Resources and Environment
$16.1 billion: Agriculture
$68.14 billion: Transportation
$18.76 billion: Community & regional development
$95.93 billion: Education, Training & Services
$243.5 billion: Non-Medicare Health
$270.45 billion: Medicare
$100.42 billion: Retirement & Unemployment
$201.91 billion: Social Welfare Spending
$496.17 billion: Social security
$37.44 billion: Administration of justice
$25.42 billion: General government administration
$156.26 billion: Net interest
$7.72 billion: Commerce Promotion
Tax Expenditures and Tax Cuts
$55.11 billion: Corporate Tax Breaks
$136.61 billion: Personal Business & Investment Benefits
$155.7 billion: Pension & Retirement Deductions
$132.18 billion: Employer-paid Health Insurance
$195.55 billion: Itemized Deductions

Budget Totals
Old budget was $3350.779 billion
($2368.852 billion in spending, $981.927 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

New budget is $2969.22 billion
($2202.05 billion in spending, $767.17 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
You have cut the deficit by $381.56 billion.
Your new deficit is $-24.55 billion.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

Net Result: suprlus of $315 billion.

even after all those cuts, it would take a full 27 years to erase the $8+ trillion deficit, quite frightening how the collective irresponsibility of politicians can be more dangerous than any terrorist.

Indeed. Once the Iraq war ends, there's another $200 billion towards the surplus. Over time, I'd probably cut social programs further.

BZZZT!!

Wrong!

That $200 billion is off-budget, right? That $87 billion was supplemental, remember?

 

[lordtyranus]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

Net Result: suprlus of $315 billion.

even after all those cuts, it would take a full 27 years to erase the $8+ trillion deficit, quite frightening how the collective irresponsibility of politicians can be more dangerous than any terrorist.

Indeed. Once the Iraq war ends, there's another $200 billion towards the surplus. Over time, I'd probably cut social programs further.

BZZZT!!

Wrong!

That $200 billion is off-budget, right? That $87 billion was supplemental, remember?

OK, if you say so. I don't see why you have to be such an ass though.

 

[Crimson]

Wow.. talk about an over simplication... Could you imagine if Bush would have implemented some of the plans your libbies are posting? Lets take Conjur for example...

70% cut in 'International Affairs'.. if Bush would do that we would hear about how he is a cowboy who is abandoning our allies.. how can he ignore the world?

Education, training, employment, and social services Cut 50%.. OMG! Bush would be abandoning the American worker, outsourcing jobs to India, and destroying the economy with wreckless cuts.

10% cut in Medicare.. Bush is making senior citizens eat dog food.

20% cut in welfare... Bush hates blacks.. racist Bush forcing poor people into boxes.

Agriculture.. no change.. well, thats a CUT in the democrats book.. Bush destroying the family farm.

Non-Medicare Health Spending cut 20%.. Bush giving in to evil corporate insurance companies and giving all the healthcare contracts to Haliburton...

Administration of Justice cut 20%.. Bush is weak on crime.. pulling police officers from the streets.


Etc.. etc.. etc.. Just IMAGINE if Bush would propose anything even remotely close to this.. the libbies would go INSANE..

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Wow.. talk about an over simplication... Could you imagine if Bush would have implemented some of the plans your libbies are posting? Lets take Conjur for example...

70% cut in 'International Affairs'.. if Bush would do that we would hear about how he is a cowboy who is abandoning our allies.. how can he ignore the world?

Cutting funding to Israel will just about cover that.

Education, training, employment, and social services Cut 50%.. OMG! Bush would be abandoning the American worker, outsourcing jobs to India, and destroying the economy with wreckless cuts.

"wreckless"? What's that? And, leaving it to the States is where it's at. The gov't is WAY too big.

10% cut in Medicare.. Bush is making senior citizens eat dog food.

The worthless Medicare prescription bill needs to be corrected so it's effective. We can save some waste and tell the drug company lobby groups to "Cheney" themselves.

20% cut in welfare... Bush hates blacks.. racist Bush forcing poor people into boxes.

Now you're just purely trolling. Welfare needs to be cut back more. Make people more responsible for their welfare if they're able.

Agriculture.. no change.. well, thats a CUT in the democrats book.. Bush destroying the family farm.

Who cares about the Democrats? I keep telling you idiots I'm not a Democrat.

Non-Medicare Health Spending cut 20%.. Bush giving in to evil corporate insurance companies and giving all the healthcare contracts to Haliburton...

Hunh?

Administration of Justice cut 20%.. Bush is weak on crime.. pulling police officers from the streets.

Let's get the jackboot thugs out of the public libraries and out looking for real criminals.

Etc.. etc.. etc.. Just IMAGINE if Bush would propose anything even remotely close to this.. the libbies would go INSANE..

Good. The government spending needs to be cut...dramatically.

 

[lordtyranus]

Way to ruin the thread Crimson. Figures. Should have known this would happen.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: lordtyranus
Way to ruin the thread Crimson. Figures. Should have known this would happen.

Should have known it would have been ruined by someone like Crimson. He's just a bitter partisan hack that has a certain love of bashing me.

Perhaps I shouldn't have posted my thoughts in this thread.

 

[ntdz]

Cut Military research and development 70%.

That, imo, is the absolute worst thing we can do right now. It would severely set us back for years to come. Look at our military now, it's stretched thin as a result from the military cutbacks during clinton peacetime and we are paying for it. I believe a strong and advanced military should be a top priority, and we need to keep the research going, after all, thats what puts us on top.

 

[Dissipate]

Where is the option that says: "Repeal all taxes, and sell off every square inch of government land and every piece of government asset, then take the money and burn it, right after dismantling the Federal Reserve and the nation's capital."

 

[CycloWizard]

Your New Budget

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Budget Totals
Old budget was $3350.779 billion
($2368.852 billion in spending, $981.927 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).
New budget is $3236.25 billion
($2220.57 billion in spending, $1015.68 billion in tax expenditures and cuts).

You have cut the deficit by $114.53 billion.
Your new deficit is $242.47 billion.

Spending ($2220.57 billion: cut $148.27 billion)
$453.68 billion .... Military Spending (No Change)
$40 billion ........ Iraq War
Cut $9.99 bil. from base of $50.0 bil.(-20%)
$117.16 billion .... Veterans and Military Retirement
Increased $19.53 bil. from base of $97.634 bil.( 20%)
$34.24 billion ..... International affairs (No Change)
$28.98 billion ..... General science, space, and technology
Increased $6.69 bil. from base of $22.291 bil.( 30%)
$1.24 billion ...... Non-Defense Energy Spending
Increased $0.28 bil. from base of $.957 bil.( 30%)
$31.67 billion ..... Natural resources and environment (No Change)
$20.12 billion ..... Agriculture (No Change)
$136.29 billion .... Transportation
Increased $68.15 bil. from base of $68.144 bil.( 100%)
$18.76 billion ..... Community and regional development (No Change)
$130.82 billion .... Education, training, employment, and social services
Increased $43.61 bil. from base of $87.211 bil.( 50%)
$243.5 billion ..... Non-Medicare Health Spending (No Change)
$135.23 billion .... Medicare
Cut $135.21 bil. from base of $270.451 bil.(-50%)
$100.42 billion .... Non-SS Retirement & Unemployment Compensation (No Change)
$141.34 billion .... Social Welfare Spending
Cut $60.56 bil. from base of $201.913 bil.(-30%)
$396.94 billion .... Social security
Cut $99.22 bil. from base of $496.174 bil.(-20%)
$62.4 billion ...... Administration of justice
Increased $20.8 bil. from base of $41.603 bil.( 50%)
$25.42 billion ..... General government administration (No Change)
$156.26 billion .... Net interest (No Change)
$-59.31 billion .... Undistributed offsetting receipts (No Change)
$5.41 billion ...... Commerce Promotion
Cut $2.3 bil. from base of $7.723 bil.(-30%)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax Expenditures ($1015.68 billion: increased $33.75 billion)
$51.5 billion ...... 2001 Tax Cut
Cut $51.49 bil. from base of $103 bil.(-50%)
$55 billion ........ 2003 Tax Cut
Cut $54.99 bil. from base of $110 bil.(-50%)
$20.67 billion ..... Corporate Tax Breaks
Cut $48.21 bil. from base of $68.89 bil.(-70%)
$204.92 billion .... Personal Business & Investment Benefits
Increased $68.31 bil. from base of $136.61 bil.( 50%)
$155.7 billion ..... Pension & Retirement Deductions (No Change)
$240.32 billion .... Employer-paid Health Insurance
Increased $120.16 bil. from base of $120.161 bil.( 100%)
$195.55 billion .... Itemized Deductions (No Change)
$92.02 billion ..... Other personal tax expenditures (No Change)

Very nice find. Maybe we should all e-mail this to our congressmen.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Net Result: suprlus of $315 billion.

even after all those cuts, it would take a full 27 years to erase the $8+ trillion deficit, quite frightening how the collective irresponsibility of politicians can be more dangerous than any terrorist.

And the 27 yr figure assumes the economy stays as healthy as it is for the whole time, such drastic cuts would probably collapse our economy into instant recession. but if we don't then in a decade we'll be pushing $10 trillion debt and watch the dollar collapse.

$4 trillion is reasonable and manageable. $10 trillion and the interest payments would crush our children.

Yeah, but you have to consider how your changes would affect the economy (and therefore tax revenues), et cetera. It's too complicated. D:

I think it's important to consider the implications of cutting military spending. Basically, the demand of the military wouldn't be made up anywhere else that I can think of. You cut the number of troops, the amount of stuff they can buy and you're putting people out on the streets - both from the military and from the vast number of military suppliers. Just a thought.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Cut Military research and development 70%.

That, imo, is the absolute worst thing we can do right now. It would severely set us back for years to come. Look at our military now, it's stretched thin as a result from the military cutbacks during clinton peacetime and we are paying for it. I believe a strong and advanced military should be a top priority, and we need to keep the research going, after all, thats what puts us on top.

We spend over $400B a year, the next highest is Russia I think at $16B. Most of this is just porkbarrel military welfare. If we don't police the world, we don't have to spend as much.