NASCAR drivers -- how 'good' of drivers are they really?

[Q]

I know this is a stupid question, but I thought of this today.

So Schumacher is/was the Stig. Would a NASCAR driver, say Jeff Gordon, be good enough to be the Stig? Let me ask this another way. NASCAR has a different style of racing, so would that still translate to professional driver on tracks? I know they race some road courses, so I would assume the answer is yes.

I know it is a lame question, I just thought seeing the Stig take off his helmet, and everyone holding their breath to see who it is, and Jeff Gordon or Dale Jr. pops out would be really funny. :biggrin:

 

[randay]

I dont think he is the stig, if you are referring to the top gear episode, im pretty sure that was a joke.

 

[brblx]

schumacher isn't the stig, he just did a hot lap in one episode because ferrari wouldn't let anyone else drive their car. afaik the real stig has never been revealed and is probably multiple people.

nascar is mostly about high speed driving. i'm sure it takes a lot of finesse to get those cars through a corner or even accelerate from a stop without major traction issues, but otherwise i just don't see any nascar driver holding a candle to those from more diverse forms of pro racing. sure, some of them might be great drivers, but racing stock cars around an oval is a shitty way to showcase it.

 

[LordMorpheus]

To say an F1 driver is better than a NASCAR driver because the F1 driver is faster around a road course is just as unfair as saying the NASCAR driver is better because he's better at moving through traffic on a superspeedway.

That said, it's likely that an average F1 driver would be faster than an average NASCAR driver around the top gear track.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Gordon and Montoya traded cars once, when Montoya was still in F1. Both ran their own cars first, to set a standard, then ran each others'.

Both ran the others' car very close to the standard.


Yes, a good driver is a good driver. There's no magical "big league", where all the other drivers are just plain better than anyone, anywhere.

There are good, mediocre, and not-so-good drivers in all series.

There are plenty of F1 drivers who could make the jump to NASCAR and do well. Just as there are plenty of NASCAR drivers who could go to F1 and do well........as long as both got into a competitive ride. I think that's more of a factor in F1, though.

There are plenty of proverbial "good 'ol boys" that race in local dirt and asphalt tracks, who are every bit as good as the Cup drivers.....but will either never get a shot, or simply don't care, because they're happy as they are.


Same goes in any sport. There are plenty of guys walking around that could have played major college football and gone to the NFL, but never played.

Plenty of excellent bowlers in each city who could easily compete and win on the PBA tour, but choose not to.

Etc, etc.

 

[ElFenix]

schumacher isn't the stig, he just did a hot lap in one episode because ferrari wouldn't let anyone else drive their car. afaik the real stig has never been revealed and is probably multiple people.

that was schummy's personal car, iirc

 

[Mermaidman]

NASCAR seems to involve more racing in very close quarters with other drivers. The few open wheel races I've seen, the cars are spread far apart.

Is it safe to say that in NASCAR, the emphasis is on drivers racing each other, whereas in open-wheel, drivers race the track? (Of course, I realize that equipment plays a big role in determining the winners.) If not, edumacate me!

 

[thedarkwolf]

Montoya is racing in Nacar now as is Scott Speed both former F1 drivers. Montoya took a while but is doing damn good now. Speed is stinking up the track.

Like most series there are Nascar drivers that would kick ass in any kind of car you put them in. And a lot of them do run in other series including road racing series for fun and do well.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

There have been a number of drivers that have run both the Indy 500 and the nascar race in the same day. Jimmy Johnson was in SCORE offroad racing before NASCAR. Boris Said who does mainly Trans Am racing has tried NASCAR. There are two former F1 drivers in the field and there are more open wheeled drivers trying to break in.

Montoya has won more F1 races than NASCAR races so far.

Effectively, swapping race car series is like swapping sports. Very few people can do it well. Parnelli Jones is one of the few I can say was ever "great at everything".

 

[BenSkywalker]

Effectively, swapping race car series is like swapping sports. Very few people can do it well. Parnelli Jones is one of the few I can say was ever "great at everything".

Tony Stewart?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Gordon and Montoya traded cars once, when Montoya was still in F1. Both ran their own cars first, to set a standard, then ran each others'.

Both ran the others' car very close to the standard.


Yes, a good driver is a good driver. There's no magical "big league", where all the other drivers are just plain better than anyone, anywhere.

There are good, mediocre, and not-so-good drivers in all series.

There are plenty of F1 drivers who could make the jump to NASCAR and do well. Just as there are plenty of NASCAR drivers who could go to F1 and do well........as long as both got into a competitive ride. I think that's more of a factor in F1, though.

There are plenty of proverbial "good 'ol boys" that race in local dirt and asphalt tracks, who are every bit as good as the Cup drivers.....but will either never get a shot, or simply don't care, because they're happy as they are.


Same goes in any sport. There are plenty of guys walking around that could have played major college football and gone to the NFL, but never played.

Plenty of excellent bowlers in each city who could easily compete and win on the PBA tour, but choose not to.

Etc, etc.

I don't know about that. There might be one or two drivers in Nascar who could make it in F1...but that's about it.

F1 is the top racing league in the world. You don't have any hacks driving Formula One cars and if you do, they don't do it for long.

 

[overst33r]

Tony Stewart?

he can't even fit into an f1 car, let alone drive it ahhaa

 

[996GT2]

he can't even fit into an f1 car, let alone drive it ahhaa

He'd have to learn how to make right turns too

 

[SludgeFactory]

While there are nuances and skills to oval racing and bangin' fenders that the NASCAR guys probably won't get credited for on this forum, I think the F1 driver is better suited to transitioning to NASCAR than vice versa. Not that either transition would immediately result in a championship season.

The physical demands on modern F1 drivers are phenomenal. The G loads the cars can generate are bordering on ground-hugging fighter jets. I think the NASCAR guy would have a lot of work to do just to get up to speed physically. In his F1 "test," Gordon was astounded by the performance (monstrous deceleration) provided by F1 carbon-carbon brakes. Also the experienced road-racer in a road-racing world should have a bigger advantage in technical skills than the oval racer in an oval world.

Another thing about that Gordon/Montoya car swap in 2003 is that while Gordon was within 1.3 seconds of Montoya's pace in the F1 car, Montoya was driving like a grandma that day, ~6 seconds off the previous year's pole position time. Unless they had changed the track configuration for that exhibition, apparently Montoya was driving at 7/10ths or something. Granted, Gordon had only a handful of laps in the car, and was petrified that he was going to destroy it and was tiptoeing around the track in certain spots, but I don't think you can assume that Gordon would just leap into an F1 car and be competitive without *a lot* of work.

Above all else, in practical terms, you're more likely to look mediocre to downright horrible in F1, because there are, at best, 2-3 teams that are realistic championship contenders in any given year in F1. So you better at least be highly competitive with your teammate from the beginning of the year, otherwise the rumors are going to start, and you're going to get kicked out midseason if it gets bad enough, e.g. Michael Andretti, Scott Speed, Sebastian Bourdais, etc. The learning curve is steep and the tolerance for failure is very small.

Nascar seems to be more willing to stick with a guy for a while, have less of a hair trigger when it comes to kicking drivers to the curb, sponsors and brands are committed to and have strong multi-year relationships with drivers, etc. You seem to have more of a fighting chance to get experience and prove your mettle before they guillotine you in Nascar.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

He'd have to learn how to make right turns too

Tony Stewart was one of the ones that drive in the Indy 500. Five times.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Tony Stewart was one of the ones that drive in the Indy 500. Five times.

I believe he ran both the Indy 500 and the 600 in Charlotte on the same day, and had a shot to win both of them, too.

 

[Pacfanweb]

There have been a number of drivers that have run both the Indy 500 and the nascar race in the same day. Jimmy Johnson was in SCORE offroad racing before NASCAR. Boris Said who does mainly Trans Am racing has tried NASCAR. There are two former F1 drivers in the field and there are more open wheeled drivers trying to break in.

Montoya has won more F1 races than NASCAR races so far.

Effectively, swapping race car series is like swapping sports. Very few people can do it well. Parnelli Jones is one of the few I can say was ever "great at everything".

Mario Andretti was pretty good.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I don't know about that. There might be one or two drivers in Nascar who could make it in F1...but that's about it.

F1 is the top racing league in the world. You don't have any hacks driving Formula One cars and if you do, they don't do it for long.

F1 is the most advanced cars. They do not have all the "elite" drivers there.

F1 is more about who has the best equipment. No other way to explain the dominance of certain drivers over long periods of time.....it's not just because they were that much better than everyone else.

It's just more of a Euro sport than Nascar. That's what they do over there, so that's what young guys who love racing aspire to. Same thing with Nascar here.

But to say F1 is some sort of elite driver's league...nah. There are plenty of drivers that aren't great there. Lots of great ones, too. Same with any other series.

There are quite a few Nascar drivers who 'could' make the jump to F1, if they so chose, could find a sponsor, get on a competitive team, etc.

Equipment matters more than anything else in F1. You can take Michael Shumacher and put him in the worst Nextel Cup car, and he'd suck. Or you could put him in Jimmie Johnson's car, and he'd still struggle for awhile, then he'd eventually 'get it'. Might not do it as well as JJ does, but JJ has lots of experience on him.

There are many Cup drivers that could translate over to F1. There'd be an adjustment period, just like it was for Montoya when he came to Nascar. Took him 3 years to make the Chase.
And this guy is a hell of a driver. Also has a CART championship, and lots of wins in that series. Won a Formula 3000 title, too.

 

[JulesMaximus]

F1 is the most advanced cars. They do not have all the "elite" drivers there.

F1 is more about who has the best equipment. No other way to explain the dominance of certain drivers over long periods of time.....it's not just because they were that much better than everyone else.

Really? Because Fernando Alonso hasn't won a world championship in a few years now since his back to back wins with Renault but he has out performed EVERY single teammate with the exception of Lewis Hamilton and they were very very close. He has made every single teammate since then look like a rookie. He truly is a world class driver, as is Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa, Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber, Rubens Barrichello, Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg and a number of the other drivers who make up the 20 drivers currently competing in Formula One.

As I said, there are no hacks in F1...

 

[Pulsar]

Really? Because Fernando Alonso hasn't won a world championship in a few years now since his back to back wins with Renault but he has out performed EVERY single teammate with the exception of Lewis Hamilton and they were very very close. He has made every single teammate since then look like a rookie. He truly is a world class driver, as is Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa, Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber, Rubens Barrichello, Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg and a number of the other drivers who make up the 20 drivers currently competing in Formula One.

As I said, there are no hacks in F1...

Um, you just proved his point. He's always better than all his teammates, but doesn't chalk up the wins because he lacks the equipment.

In addition: nascar drivers didn't grow up driving nascar. Many of them came up through the spint car series (which is open wheel, thank you very much), local dirt track series, and many of them race in the road-race 24 hr series as well (which is certainly not an oval).

Saying that F1 drivers are better or Nascar drivers are better is a generalization at best, and simple out-and-out Nationalism at its worst.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

NASCAR drivers -- how 'good' of drivers are they really?

about as good as your grammar.

99% of nascar drivers would be completely useless in anything other than an oval track. everyone knows this.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

NASCAR drivers -- how 'good' of drivers are they really?

about as good as your grammar.

99% of nascar drivers would be completely useless in anything other than an oval track. everyone knows this.

Montoya has F1 background, road courses.
Johnson was rookie of the year in SCORE offroad racing.
Robby Gordon did full seasons in CART, which had road courses as well as having done Baja.
A.J Allmendinger raced Champ cars.
Marcos Ambrose raced V8 supercars in Austrialia, winning the championship twice.
Scott Speed raced in F1.
John Andretti raced in CART.


...so that's 7 of the 43 cars that raced on Sunday. I can probably pull up more but I think you've already been proven wrong.

 

[exar333]

This argument is like arguing over who is a better athlete, a sprinter or a swimmer. They both are athletes, but have different goals.

Although not a big fan of NASCAR, I can respect the drivers just the same as an F1 driver.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Montoya has F1 background, road courses.
Johnson was rookie of the year in SCORE offroad racing.
Robby Gordon did full seasons in CART, which had road courses as well as having done Baja.
A.J Allmendinger raced Champ cars.
Marcos Ambrose raced V8 supercars in Austrialia, winning the championship twice.
Scott Speed raced in F1.
John Andretti raced in CART.


...so that's 7 of the 43 cars that raced on Sunday. I can probably pull up more but I think you've already been proven wrong.

no, you've proven i exaggerated. boris said is usually a hired gun for road courses, and robby gordon races anything that moves. montoya could still be competitive in f1, but the only reason scott speed was there was because red bull wanted an american driver at the time.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Boris Said raced full time in the truck series in 1997 and 1998. He finished 16th in points in 1997.